XD Safety (I'M NOT TRYING TO START A FLAME WAR!!)

[Guest GUTTERbOY]

there will be more ADs with GLOCKS when GLOCK out sells XDs 10 to 1

I'm not a Glock fan, but this is a good point, considering how much longer Glocks have been around... seriously, follow the rules and you'll never have a surprise bang short of a mechanical failure.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

ive owned a GLOCK for over 15 years and never came close to having a AD knock on wood. ADs are not the guns fault its the guy holding the gun fault

[Smith]

there will be more ADs with GLOCKS when GLOCK out sells XDs 10 to 1

Good try, but XD's aren't exactly new on the block anymore. I would say Glocks have more AD's than say a Hi-Power, so sales numbers and market time are relatively irrelevant. One of the biggest issues for Glocks is the unsupported chamber, where most kabooms I've seen haven happened. Mainly in .40's.

Deerslayer, you always bring up ND's.... those are always operator error by definition. We are talking AD's and those are the realm of "Perfection" and by definition solely the guns fault.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

Good try, but XD's aren't exactly new on the block anymore. I would say Glocks have more AD's than say a Hi-Power, so sales numbers and market time are relatively irrelevant. One of the biggest issues for Glocks is the unsupported chamber, where most kabooms I've seen haven happened. Mainly in .40's.

Deerslayer, you always bring up ND's.... those are always operator error by definition. We are talking AD's and those are the realm of "Perfection" and by definition solely the guns fault.

most kabooms are due to bad ammo. and yes the older glock .40s had unsupported chambers but glock redesigned them and there has been no problems with them now

[Smith]

Good point. I think Glocks are fine. Their history just doesn't inspire confidence, plus I'm really turned off by the "Glock Nation" koolaid. I personally had an XD and enjoyed it. I just couldn't get used to Glocks grip angle, but joining the MNPD in June I guess I'll have to learn to!

[Guest titanwolf]

The new Xd's have a grip, trigger and safety lever. could all three fail, sure. Are these good to have with kids in the house, yes. I keep mine hidden and unloaded at home but you never know.

Odds?

Still the gun you like is a preference, The XD felt good in my left hand, I like how it fires and it does not kick like I thought it would. Use to the old 1911's my grandfather and father had. Not to mention the .357 I loved to shoot and still do.

Edited April 15, 2008 by titanwolf

[PaiMei]

Glocks...aren't for everyone. XD's...aren't for everyone. Go shoot them both in the same caliber and see what YOU prefer. I own some nice HK's and 1911's, but I carry a Glock because thats what I shoot best with, and thats what fits MY hand best. Safety is about the same...KEEP YOUR COTTON PICKEN FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER. There...now either one works for you. Your going to hear more Glock stories (whether good or bad) because there are way more of them, and that means a higher probability of an ID 10 T using one and causing a NG. I had an XD45 and regret selling it. I'll probably get another one...but still carry my Glocks cause thats what my hands are trained with. You cant go wrong with either safety wise.

[DaveTN]

Do all the checks and comparisons you like; facts don’t matter. This is an emotional issue. It’s like calling someone’s baby ugly.

Good grief…. How many times has a Glock owner posted that there are no documented cases of problems with Glocks and then wanting us to posts links for them? If they don’t care enough to check for themselves or won’t believe it when they see it; what chance do you have?

[Guest mc30707]

I have an XD9 and a G19. I like both. I tend to carry the glock more as its a little smaller, but I prefer shooting the XD. So I guess I drink both kinds of

I bought the XD new, had a couple of FTF's, I suspect one was me having the guide rod off center a little, and one WWB round did not fire when I pulled the trigger. All other rounds fired flawlessly. round count about 800 rds. now. The G19 was acquired in a trade. I've shot about a 100 rds thru it. both are reliable and both go bang when I pull the trigger. I think its a matter of personal preference as well.

Edited April 15, 2008 by mc30707

[memphismason]

I like them both!!!

[molonlabetn]

Considering that even just partially pre-cocked, the Glock's striker has enough energy to set off most primers*, the difference between it's preload and the XD's is pretty much negligable... so, if used properly, the XD has one additional passive safety (grip safety) to prevent inadvertent sear rotation. The trigger pull weight on both guns is nearly identical, the difference is that the XD simply breaks more cleanly.

*Springfield commissioned a study by the prestigious independent consulting firm, Tioga Engineering of Wellsboro, Pa., to compare the systems of the Glock and XD. In both designs, the firing pin block or safety is the key element, but their test showed that a primed case fired 100 percent of the time in a Glock when the striker was released from the 62 percent normal preloaded level.

[Guest jackdog]

There both good fire arms and we can go around and around about this and it will never change. Shoot and carry what you feel the most comfortable with period. Every time this debate comes up a bunch of people here act like damn third graders, maybe we should think about concealed sling shots, they are pretty safe.

[Guest darkstar]

There both good fire arms and we can go around and around about this and it will never change. Shoot and carry what you feel the most comfortable with period. Every time this debate comes up a bunch of people here act like damn third graders, maybe we should think about concealed sling shots, they are pretty safe.

"Shoot and carry what you feel most comfortable with period."

Exactly. That's what it boils down to. I don't understand why people get so emotionally involved with their particular brand of gun. The guns I own I have because they feel right to me, I shoot well with them, and they were a good deal. I didn't get them because I thought I would look cool with them or because if I bought brand X then the chicks would be flocking to me. If someone has something to say concerning a gun I have I don't get all wigged out about it...that gun has nothing to do with anything about me except for shooting....now where the hell did I put my Lorcin?

[HanSolo]

I personally love the XD. I actually own 2 of them. I have personally seen 2 glocks go boom in the wrong direction so I usually feel like I am holding a gernade when i hold a glock. I have not owned a Glock, but have fired a few and they were nice shooting pistols. But after seeing 2 seriously malfunction at the range. I have trouble betting my life on them.

Both of the malfunctions were with reloaded ammo, but I have seen many guns shoot reloads and I have only personally seen glocks screw up.

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

Considering that even just partially pre-cocked, the Glock's striker has enough energy to set off most primers*, the difference between it's preload and the XD's is pretty much negligable... so, if used properly, the XD has one additional passive safety (grip safety) to prevent inadvertent sear rotation. The trigger pull weight on both guns is nearly identical, the difference is that the XD simply breaks more cleanly.

*Springfield commissioned a study by the prestigious independent consulting firm, Tioga Engineering of Wellsboro, Pa., to compare the systems of the Glock and XD. In both designs, the firing pin block or safety is the key element, but their test showed that a primed case fired 100 percent of the time in a Glock when the striker was released from the 62 percent normal preloaded level.

I tried researching this report and all I could find was an article on Americancopmagazine.com that had your *information and one reference to a 2005 American Handgunner magazine article. Do you know where I could actually get a copy of the report? I would be interested in finding out their testing methods, primer types etc. Did they actually calculate/measure the force at the impact?

From a physics standpoint I find it interesting that a spring at 62% loading has at least an equal force to a similar spring that is fully compressed.

Spring force is F = k(Free length - compressed length) where (k) is the compression strength of the spring. The higher the (k) factor the stiffer the spring.

Assuming roughly equal free length (assuming that since trigger pull length is roughly the same) that would mean that the Glock spring is roughly 38% stronger than the XD spring which should mean that a XD is 38% (on average) more likely to have a light primer strike than a Glock. Assuming that for any given run of primers a Glock does have a light primer strike. Very interesting....

I am suprised that the Glock engineers would have so vastly over engineered a component especially since the 1st 20% of a spring is signifcantly lower spring force and sprung systems should be designed to operate in the central 60% of their free length.

Edited April 15, 2008 by bigbuck_tn
left off letters

[deerslayer]

Good try, but XD's aren't exactly new on the block anymore. I would say Glocks have more AD's than say a Hi-Power, so sales numbers and market time are relatively irrelevant. One of the biggest issues for Glocks is the unsupported chamber, where most kabooms I've seen haven happened. Mainly in .40's.

Deerslayer, you always bring up ND's.... those are always operator error by definition. We are talking AD's and those are the realm of "Perfection" and by definition solely the guns fault.

1. Hmmm...Glocks vastly outnumber XDs, and HPs are few and far between in the U.S.

2. Exactly how many "kabooms" have you seen?

3. ND = AD. They mean the same thing to me. How can the gun be at fault? Was it a careless or poorly trained gun?

For the record, I have never heard of a "Glock nation" and I don't like Kool-Aid. I simply shoot what works for me and I don't give unwanted advice.

[Guest nraforlife]

Don't ask me I have a M&P

[DavidD]

"ND = AD. They mean the same thing to me..."

Ok, What exactly does ND stand for?

[deerslayer]

ND-negligent discharge (the user's fault)

AD-accidental discharge (considered a mechanical defect/malfunction)

AD is often used when ND would be more appropriate. For instance, a gun discharging in a holster may be considered the gun's fault by some, but I would blame the user.

[Guest m4coyote]

I have shot XD pistols at the range several times, and they are very comfortable in hand. They seem to be a very quality product, and perform very well. I just do not shoot them as well as my Glock pistols. That is probably because I have owned and shot Glocks since the 1980's.

I think the safety issue is probably moot. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. I do feel uncomfortable about sticking a Glock (with a round in the chamber) in a pocket, or under my waistband in the small of my back. If the trigger snags, then it will discharge. The XD is not much better in this respect, because to holster it or put it in a pocket, you almost always depress the grip safety. If the new XD's are coming with a manual safety, then I will certainly give them a look.

I always hear about the unsupported chamber in Glock barrels. The early forty caliber guns did not support the cartridge in the area of the feed ramp as well as many other guns. From the newer Glocks I own, and have had apart, they support the cartridge as well as any other autoloader out there. There are many photos out there on the web showing a comparison between Glock barrel support at the six o'clock position, and many other makes - such as Sig, Colt 1911, XD, H&K, etc. They now obviously provide the same or better support as any other autoloader. That is like saying that I will not drive a certain brand of car because the one my dad owned twenty years ago was not any good.

[Guest db99wj]

I think the safety issue is probably moot. Keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. I do feel uncomfortable about sticking a Glock (with a round in the chamber) in a pocket, or under my waistband in the small of my back. If the trigger snags, then it will discharge. The XD is not much better in this respect, because to holster it or put it in a pocket, you almost always depress the grip safety. If the new XD's are coming with a manual safety, then I will certainly give them a look.

There is a technique that several of us on here use that stops the grip safety from being depressed while re holstering. You train your self, when you are re holstering to bring your thumb up where the front of your thumb (pad) is resting on the rear sights. This takes the webbing of your hand off the grip safety and does not allow the grip safety to be depressed, which of course releases the safety mechanism. The slide is locked and the trigger will not pull.

[Smith]

1. Hmmm...Glocks vastly outnumber XDs, and HPs are few and far between in the U.S.

Not so on a world wide basis or in total sales. HP's have been used in the larger capacity as service pistols around the world (which I think is a better measure anyway) as Glocks. This is one of the jaded Glock views that Glocks are the biggest, best selling gun ever because of their "perfection".

2. Exactly how many "kabooms" have you seen?

I have seen 5 reports just this year.

3. ND = AD. They mean the same thing to me. How can the gun be at fault? Was it a careless or poorly trained gun?

The gun can be at fault due to poor design or mechanical deficiencies. If a gun goes off by being bumped, for instance, while holstered then that is and AD. If you buddy shoots you in the foot as he was cleaning it because he forgot to check the chamber. that is a ND. operator error.

BTW a lot of the anti-Glock sentiment is in jest cause some Glockers are way to easy to get going about their little pieces of "Perfection".

[deerslayer]

1. Hmmm...Glocks vastly outnumber XDs, and HPs are few and far between in the U.S.

Not so on a world wide basis or in total sales. HP's have been used in the larger capacity as service pistols around the world (which I think is a better measure anyway) as Glocks. This is one of the jaded Glock views that Glocks are the biggest, best selling gun ever because of their "perfection".

2. Exactly how many "kabooms" have you seen?

I have seen 5 reports just this year.

3. ND = AD. They mean the same thing to me. How can the gun be at fault? Was it a careless or poorly trained gun?

The gun can be at fault due to poor design or mechanical deficiencies. If a gun goes off by being bumped, for instance, while holstered then that is and AD. If you buddy shoots you in the foot as he was cleaning it because he forgot to check the chamber. that is a ND. operator error.

BTW a lot of the anti-Glock sentiment is in jest cause some Glockers are way to easy to get going about their little pieces of "Perfection".

1. I don't give a rodent's rump what the rest of the world uses, I said in the U.S. How many people do you know w/ High Powers? I think I know one.

2. I have seen five reports of bigfoot just this month.

3. Glocks don't go off simply by being "bumped." They fire when something or someone pulls the trigger.

I have never claimed that my Glocks represent "perfection," but they are the best guns I have found for my needs.

Edited April 16, 2008 by deerslayer

[PaiMei]

[Im Neero]

3. ND = AD. They mean the same thing to me. How can the gun be at fault? Was it a careless or poorly trained gun?

Didn't you blame an ad/nd/whatever-d on a holster in another post? Was it a careless or poorly trained holster?