XD Safety (I'M NOT TRYING TO START A FLAME WAR!!)

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

Ok everyone I am NOT trying to start a fight about anything. I am merely stating facts and as I know them and would like to open the floor up to debate.

I am a Glock person. I don't own a XD. My brother does and I plan on trying to talk him into letting me take it apart next time I go home for the weekend.

I have read alot of comparisons about the Glock and XD and alot of people state that XD is much safer than the Glock. So being an engineer I decided to do a DOE to see what I can find out.

Glock:

1. The striker is pre-loaded between 8 and 11/64th of an inch when cocked and the trigger fully forward.

2. Pulling the trigger fully loads the striker an addition 8/64th before the cruciform begins dropping down and after an additional 1 to 2/64ths of travel lets the striker move forwards. (Can't measure the drop well with a scale)

3. While this is happening the cruciform is moving backwards in a channel on the drop safety and only when it gets beyond the 8/64ths can it drop down and allow the striker to move forwards.

4. There is also a striker plunger that is fully disengaged within I think 5 to 6/64ths of travel that is completely blocking the firing pin hole in the breechface. (couldn't measure this well)

Again, I don't own and XD but I have done research on the net and I intend to try and take one apart soon.

XD:

1. Striker is fully cocked except for approximately 10 thousandths that it moves when the trigger is pulled.

2. As the trigger is being pulled the trigger bar pushes back on the striker safety lever (item #40 in the exploded diagram) which rotates the sear and drops it out of engagement with the tail of the firing pin letting it go forward.

3. The grip safety has a notch that prevents the sear from rotating when it is not engaged. See below.

http://gunshopping.blogspot.com/2007/09/springfield-xd-does-it-quack-like-duck.html

4. The XD also has a striker plunger that prevents the firing pin from going through the breech face. I am not exactly sure how it disengages from the drawings I have seen maybe someone can elaborate.

Now from this data, what kind of conclusion do you get?

Ps. Yes I know I didn't reduce the fractions but I started to do it in metric but I thought this would be better.

[Guest bkelm18]

I get the conclusion that I still love XDs and dislike Glocks. Thanks.

[Guest flyfishtn]

I get the conclusion that I still love XDs and dislike Glocks. Thanks.

Agreed.

[Smith]

Analyze all you want and it still comes down to a lot of AD's with Glocks and not so with XD's.

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

I get the conclusion that I still love XDs and dislike Glocks. Thanks.

That is great! I didn't say anything is wrong with the XD.

Only safety shouldn't be the reason for the choice. Whether you like the gun or not and whether you shoot it well.

[Guest bkelm18]

That is great! I didn't say anything is wrong with the XD.

Only safety shouldn't be the reason for the choice. Whether you like the gun or not and whether you shoot it well.

Agreed. Nothing wrong with Glocks. They just don't fit me well.

[Guest flyfishtn]

I tried really hard to like Glocks but found the grips in my hand were like gripping a wood block. When I picked up the XD, the ergonomics were much superior, for me.

Have put numerous rounds through friends and think they are good guns, just not for me.

[VERO1]

While not being an engineer, I have owned both a Glock 22 and a Springfield XD. I have not done a great deal of online technical research. I have however shot both extensively. The Glock has been sold and I have no plans to replace it.

[Im Neero]

Have put numerous rounds through friends

[Guest bkelm18]

Hey, you gotta test a carry gun somehow....

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

My brother really likes his XD. He says he shoots it better than a Glock. (I think he sucks equally with both )

I have shot it. I shoot high and to the right with it. And it sometimes hurts my hand.

It does have a smooth trigger though.

[TripleDigitRide]

This is what happens when the "over-thinkers" get involved.

I've shot both, but the XD just has a much better feel for my liking.

As far as safety goes, both are plenty safe. Accidents can, have, and will happen with both. No number of safeties are going to prevent accidents when ignorance is involved. You must be safer and smarter than the firearm.

[strickj]

Your thinking about it to hard.Both guns are completely safe until they are in your hand.Its that simple.Glock really has no safety being the trigger has to be pulled for it to fire,thus a safety on a trigger is pointless.Same with the XD,the trigger safe is pointless,but the grip safety does have a use when used properly.When I bought mine,one of the first things I found was it would not fire if you thumb is not completely wrapped around the grip.So when handing an XD,if you put your thumb on the back of the slide,it will not fire.

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

You should see me trying to determine what I want to order at the drive thru.

And yes, I keep a calculator in the front pocket of my shirt.

No pocket protector though. I have this friend though....

[TripleDigitRide]

And it sometimes hurts my hand.

This could likey be caused by the mere fact that you're used to shooting your Glock, which requires a different position of the wrist and hand while shooting.

A friend of mine suffered from the same issue when he started shooting the XD. His hand and wrist was used to being at a slightly bent angle, so he found his muscle memory trying to fight the natural pointability of the XD.

[Guest flyfishtn]

Hey, you gotta test a carry gun somehow....

Yeah, don't make me made.

[Guest nitrous_mike]

I also tried to like a glock but they just do not fit my short fat lil hands worth a poo. I picked up an XD and was in total lust with it from that point on.

[molonlabetn]

This could likey be caused by the mere fact that you're used to shooting your Glock, which requires a different position of the wrist and hand while shooting.

A friend of mine suffered from the same issue when he started shooting the XD. His hand and wrist was used to being at a slightly bent angle, so he found his muscle memory trying to fight the natural pointability of the XD.

I think there's something to that... The grip angle of the Glock does require one to nearly lock their strong wrist downward, instead of straight (ergonomically correct).... reminiscent of some revolver grips.

Safety-wise, they are both very mechanically reliable... I'd suggest that engineering analysis of the Glock would be best directed at the tolerances of the chamber, and sensitivity of the disconnecter to firing out-of-battery. The resilience of the gun to human error is purely subjective...

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

This could likey be caused by the mere fact that you're used to shooting your Glock, which requires a different position of the wrist and hand while shooting.

A friend of mine suffered from the same issue when he started shooting the XD. His hand and wrist was used to being at a slightly bent angle, so he found his muscle memory trying to fight the natural pointability of the XD.

It was something rubbing/pinching me. Probably since I wasn't used to holding it and didn't have caluses in the right place.

Funny when you wrote that I went and stood in the mirror and pointed with my trigger finger. When sighting along my finger my wrist is pointed down relative to the long bones of my arm, at a slightly bent angle....

When I make them all in the same line, I'm pointing up in the air...

EUREAKA!!!!!!

I know why ya'll like XD's. Your all deformed, hmmm very, very interesting....

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

I think there's something to that... The grip angle of the Glock does require one to nearly lock their strong wrist downward, instead of straight (ergonomically correct).... reminiscent of some revolver grips.

Safety-wise, they are both very mechanically reliable... I'd suggest that engineering analysis of the Glock would be best directed at the tolerances of the chamber, and sensitivity of the disconnecter to firing out-of-battery. The resilience of the gun to human error is purely subjective...

I haven't got a large enough sample for the chamber tolerances or any pin gages for that matter but I have tried the out of battery test. On to or 3 models.

I tried pulling the slide back to various levels to get the striker to fall after unlocking. I was not succesful. The closest that I could come to it was right after it first started backwards but while it was still completely mechanically locked. The scale that I have is in 1/64ths and it was less than 1/2 that distance.

Someone try that on an XD or other auto and see what you get. Press the slide back ever so slightly and see if you can get the hammer/striker to move.

I don't see how it could happen unless the firing pin missed the disconnector completely and remained stuck out of the breech face and caused a slam fire. But all guns are sucesptible to that.

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

Now if someone (maybe a high volume dealer) wanted to get some data real quick. 30+ pieces of data on chamber diameters and I could calculate based on that variation with a 95% confidence interval what the natural variation in that process was and then we could actually see whether this falls outside of the SAAMI guidelines for chamber sizing and see if this could be a problem.

Any takers? It would need to be on the same caliber, not necessarily the same model since I assume they form the chambers and rifling with same equipment regardless of the barrel length.

ps. More data and I could increase that confidence interval.

[Guest titanwolf]

I shot well with my Xd and did not want to buy a Glock because of the Glock Nation. I prefer the XD nation. It seems to me that anytime another gun comes along that the military and law enforcement may go with the Glock nation wants to put it down. The XD will not go off unless you pull the trigger, heard from Law officers the glock has gone off by bumping it or trying to put it back in the holster.

[deerslayer]

The only ND I have ever witnessed happened with an XD. Does this mean the XD is flawed or dangerous? Absolutely not. The nut behind the butt is the most important safety.

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

I shot well with my Xd and did not want to buy a Glock because of the Glock Nation. I prefer the XD nation. It seems to me that anytime another gun comes along that the military and law enforcement may go with the Glock nation wants to put it down. The XD will not go off unless you pull the trigger, heard from Law officers the glock has gone off by bumping it or trying to put it back in the holster.

I'm not one of the cool aid drinkers of the Glock Nation. (I like that by the way)

I just like to make decisions based on physical data, not what I hear and I wanted everyone to share their data as well.

Assuming a non modified from stock gun a Glock CANNOT go off by itself. Even if the striker block and the drop safety somehow failed the firing pin isn't loaded enough to fire a cartridge. Remember that is one of the complaints lodged at Glocks striker, it doesn't have enough inertia to fire really hard primers all the time like a hammer fired gun does when it is fully cocked. And this would be going off "half cocked".

Now if you modified it, then all bets are off.

Of course with the XD, and it's fully loaded striker, and if the above mentioned safeties failed or were intentionally disabled, it would be much more likely to fire... The only thing standing between you and a gun "going off" is a tiny little notch on a grip safety and what looks like a less than thirty degree rotation in a sear. Someone should measure it and post...

That's why the XD has such a light/nice/smooth trigger pull. All your are doing is taking up slack and then releasing a sear in your last few mm of travel. Same as a 1911 (in function, not mechanically).

As long as the safeties are functioning properly both should be eqally safe.

I just don't want to turn people off to either design with opinions. List out the facts and let people decide for themselves.

Or just drink the Koolade.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

Analyze all you want and it still comes down to a lot of AD's with Glocks and not so with XD's.

there will be more ADs with GLOCKS when GLOCK out sells XDs 10 to 1