Employee Safe Commute (Parking Lot) Campaign

[Guest jeannen]

I got Ramsey's bs response about compromise and sent him this in reply:

Mr. Ramsey,

If you are only worried about property rights, then it's really very simple. My car is my property. I should be able to keep a perfectly legal item secured in MY OWN CAR. The business owner is already controlling their property by preventing me from bringing my weapon inside. See how logical that is? The fact that you are complicating this issue so that a "compromise" is even necessary tells me exactly where you really stand on this.

Please do the right thing and let the bill come to a vote so the government can do what it's supposed to do - represent the CITIZENS. Not Fedex. By refusing to do so, you are using your position to override the entire legislature and that makes you no better than Harry Reid. And I will remember that at the next election. Just think how many HCP holders there are in Tennessee. Over 300,000. That's probably more than enough to retire you from office and I promise to make sure they are aware of your part in holding up this bill.

[1pointofview]

my pull quote to Lt Gov Ramsey

"I understand some people are just not comfortable with firearms and I respect that. But common sense tells me that if someone was going to commit a gun crime, there are no laws that prevents moral corruption but currently in our state, there are laws that prevent proven responsible State of Tennessee Citizens from exercising their constitutional right to defend themselves. There really is no difference between leaving a legally owned fire arm in my home or in my car. If I someone who wants to do ill will towards another they will do it despite law. "

[Fallguy]

With this forum software, a "b" in parentheses = ( and a "c" in parentheses = ©

- OS

If you use the full editor and turn of smillies it will take care of the ....but not the the ©

[Volzfan]

I just left a breakfast meeting with SE Davidson county republicans and Jim Gotto was one there. He said that with Ramsey killing it that it would have to be next year before this could come back up. He also said that he thought that instead of the bill written as it was this year, that expanding the Castle Doctrine to include your personal vehicle, whether you are in it or not. That would prevent employers from searching a vehicle without probable cause. That sounds like as long as the person with a firearm locked in a car didn't say anything about the gun they would be fine.

I would still rather they just give HCP holders full rights to have that weapon in their car and not have to worry about being fired because of it. If this type of legislation is what it takes for now then I'm OK with it. Later when there have been no issues with HCP holders then moving to a better position might be easier. It's a shame that we usually have to take small steps to get where we want to be but hopefully, we will one day get to where we have an absolute constitutional type of rights here in TN.

He also said that Fed Ex is the one who is making the most noise about this issue.

What are your thoughts on this approach.

[Worriedman]

The current law already extends the Castle Doctrine to a privately owned vehicle.

http://nashvilleatto...for-protection/

http://state.tn.us/s.../pub/pc0210.pdf

The TCA will have to be changed to delist the ability of a property owner to "post" their property for the bill to work, as the current code allows. Currently 39-16-611- Section 1- [c}states: Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or serious bodily injury within a residence, dwelling or vehicle is presumed to have held a reasonable belief of imminent death or serious bodily injury to self, family, a member of the household or a person visiting as an invited guest when that force is used against another person, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence, dwelling or vehicle, and the person using defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

Edited April 21, 2012 by Worriedman

[Sky King]

I just left a breakfast meeting with SE Davidson county republicans and Jim Gotto was one there. He said that with Ramsey killing it that it would have to be next year before this could come back up. He also said that he thought that instead of the bill written as it was this year, that expanding the Castle Doctrine to include your personal vehicle, whether you are in it or not. That would prevent employers from searching a vehicle without probable cause. That sounds like as long as the person with a firearm locked in a car didn't say anything about the gun they would be fine.

I would still rather they just give HCP holders full rights to have that weapon in their car and not have to worry about being fired because of it. If this type of legislation is what it takes for now then I'm OK with it. Later when there have been no issues with HCP holders then moving to a better position might be easier. It's a shame that we usually have to take small steps to get where we want to be but hopefully, we will one day get to where we have an absolute constitutional type of rights here in TN.

He also said that Fed Ex is the one who is making the most noise about this issue.

What are your thoughts on this approach.

This approach was considered early this year and last year. It has some merit but allow me to play Devil's advocate for a minute. Suppose your boss suspects you to have stolen some company property and placed it in your car. Right or wrong, he can call law enforcement. Let's also say a fellow employee will support his claim and say you put the property in your car. Now there is probable cause for LAW ENFORCEMENT to search your car. So let's also say, (because you did not in fact commit the theft) the item searched for was not found. However, in the course of the search, it is found that you have a firearm in the car. Law enforcement will not care about the gun as long as you possess it legallly and have a permit. BUT your boss now KNOWS and even though it was not the object of the search, you will still be toast.

The only way for something of that nature to work would be a law that prohibited an employer from making vehicle searches a term of employement so you could refuse to allow a search without loosing your job. Second, the employer or any of his representatives or persons acting on his behalf would have to be prohibited from being present during a search conducted by law enforcement and then law enforcement could ONLY report whether the object of the search WAS or WAS NOT found. Anything else found in the course of the search, provided it is legal, could not be reported. NEXT, if by some way the presence of a firearm was found out by your employer when it was NOT the object of the search AND your employer took ANY action relative to items found in your car, then the employee would have legal recourse against the employer. But I kind of doubt that if we can't get a parking lot bill passed, a law like this would never pass either.

Second, as far as I am concerned, HCP holders have LONG SINCE proven their trust worthiness. The time for that has passed. We are approaching 20 years of Handgun Carry Permits in Tennessee. How long should we have to wait to be considered vetted.

[Guest TnRebel]

I got Ramsey's bs response about compromise and sent him this in reply:

Mr. Ramsey,

If you are only worried about property rights, then it's really very simple. My car is my property. I should be able to keep a perfectly legal item secured in MY OWN CAR. The business owner is already controlling their property by preventing me from bringing my weapon inside. See how logical that is? The fact that you are complicating this issue so that a "compromise" is even necessary tells me exactly where you really stand on this.

Please do the right thing and let the bill come to a vote so the government can do what it's supposed to do - represent the CITIZENS. Not Fedex. By refusing to do so, you are using your position to override the entire legislature and that makes you no better than Harry Reid. And I will remember that at the next election. Just think how many HCP holders there are in Tennessee. Over 300,000. That's probably more than enough to retire you from office and I promise to make sure they are aware of your part in holding up this bill.

Tell Mr. Ramsey that if he wants to compromise .. to put in the bill that the property owner well be liable for the safe commute to and from work .

[Worriedman]

Was at a gathering in Nashville Friday night where it was presented by a member of House Leadership that the Caucus, i.e. Republicans, has not made up its mind regarding HB 3560. I find that hard to understand, per the fact that 28 of the 30 co-sponsors are Republicans, (which is 43.75% of all the Republicans in the House). What level of support prior to putting the bill on notice might have been achieved, had Leadership not consistently, from inception till now, fought to keep this measure bottled up? With that number of supporters of the bill, (even under duress) and, the fact that it has been vetted on its merits in the accepted legislative manner, through sub-committee, to full committee, and passed out of both to Calender and Rules, it SHOULD receive a place on the floor for a full debate of the State's Representatives.

If in fact, the bill is so abhorrent in its content to the legisaltors, that will be apparent in its reception by the whole body of the House. However, if there is desire on the part of the assemblage, to honor what has been passed out of committee in BOTH chambers (and judged Constitutional by our State Attorney General in its earlier broad form prior to the narrowing in the House version, which in truth, was requested and structured by those who favor the Citizen's ability to provide for their own security and safety), let it be proven and not a matter of conjecture. What harm could there be in allowing the General Assembly to do the People's business if the individual members of the caucus are so adverse to the passage of this measure.

Leadership should welcome the chance for the members of the House to verify their assertion that there is not enough support to move the bill to a Public Chapter, thereby rendering their opinions correct, and once and for all stilling the voices of dissent against that declaration, which ask simply for a fair hearing of the issue. Or do they fear that once the yeas and nays are counted in full, their caucus will show a different opinion, possibly reflecting the desires of the People? The truth would out in the counting of the votes. Of note, the Republicans alone number in the superior position to pass or kill, and alone, will bear the accolades or condemnation of the results.

Where does the allegiance of General Assembly lie, to the Citizens at large, or to the few "Business" interest that seek to rule the rest of us for their perceived benefit? Twenty (20) other States have versions of this bill, and as related by the Federal Express Lobbyist in his testimony before the Senate Judiciary Committee, (which passed the companion bill to its own Calender and Rules committee) no harm has come of it in any of them. Let the entire Legislature decide and end the debate. Surely, with the vast majority of the House being Republicans, (who we all know have our best interest at heart), the correct decision will be made.

[GKar]

Just now from Ramsey's FB page: "Getting ready to start the last Monday session of the year. Looking forward to finishing the people's business deliberatively and efficiently this week."

How convenient - sorry folks, we just ran out of time.

[Motasyco]

http://www.volunteertv.com/news/headlines/House_Rejects_Guns_In_Parking_Lots_148606605.html

I'm starting to think anyone but incumbents.

[R_Bert]

http://www.volunteer..._148606605.html

I'm starting to think anyone but incumbents.

secret caucus ballot.

yep. I am starting to agree.

[Motasyco]

I might have used a more colorful phrase that I recently heard Uncle Ted use but I don't need any black SUVs pulling into my driveway.

[R_Bert]

heh.

http://lastcar.blogspot.com/2012/04/jimmy-kyle-puppet-for-nra.html

[Motasyco]

heh.

http://lastcar.blogs...et-for-nra.html

I guess I can't tell what's good and what's bad anymore.

[R_Bert]

http://www.volunteer..._148606605.html

I'm starting to think anyone but incumbents.

Ask your Republican representative tonight, point blank - "How did you vote on this?"

[Moped]

Here is what I sent Mr. Dunn, my State Representative.

Mr. Dunn,

It has come to my attention that the House Republican Caucus voted this evening, not to bring H.B. 3560 to a vote this year. As a citizen of Tennessee and a voter in your District, I would like to know how you voted on this matter.

In the Subject line, it read "Republican Failure to Bring H.B. 3560 to the Floor for a Vote"

Can't wait to see his reply.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Moped

[QuietDan]

The end of one campaign and the beginning of another. Live to fight another day.

What needs to happen to make this successful?

[R_Bert]

The basic answer - "it's none of your business". Maybe, it's classified.

Since the subject is closed, I cannot ask why the "secret ballot" was necessary in the first place.

I trust the political capital lost in this vote is worth it in the long run for the Republican Party.

Bert,

These are called "secret ballots" for a reason. Suffice it to say that I voted my conscience as best as Providence and my education combined with my experience gave me the light to see. Beyond that statement, the subject is closed for further discussion.

Regards,

John D. Ragan

State Representative

Edited April 24, 2012 by R_Bert

[QuietDan]

Regarding:

**********************************

Bert,

These are called "secret ballots" for a reason. Suffice it to say that I voted my conscience as best as Providence and my education combined with my experience gave me the light to see. Beyond that statement, the subject is closed for further discussion.

Regards,

John D. Ragan

State Representative

**************************************

That's the same as saying "I voted against it."

Sounds a little arrogant to me. It seems to me it's the constituent that decides when the conversation is over.

Is he up for election this year?

[R_Bert]

Regarding:

**********************************

Bert,

These are called "secret ballots" for a reason. Suffice it to say that I voted my conscience as best as Providence and my education combined with my experience gave me the light to see. Beyond that statement, the subject is closed for further discussion.

Regards,

John D. Ragan

State Representative

**************************************

That's the same as saying "I voted against it."

Sounds a little arrogant to me. It seems to me it's the constituent that decides when the conversation is over.

Is he up for election this year?

They all are. Here is the Unofficial List Of House Candidates from State of TN -

http://tnsos.org/ele...ate.php?showall

His 2012 opponent was in the Ragan's 33rd seat from 2003 -2010,

.

Edited April 24, 2012 by R_Bert

[Worriedman]

Ask your Republican representative tonight, point blank - "How did you vote on this?"

That was the whole point of the secret ballot, so no one will ever know, like the secret votes to put Harwell in as Speaker, the Caucus doing THEIR business to disenfranchise the Citizens.

Cowards, all of them!

Edited April 24, 2012 by Worriedman

[Mike.357]

Vote them all out, unforunately a majority of voters probably support this bill being killed.

[Defender]

The sheer arrogance of our politicians is almost unbelievable. The national ones as well as the local/state ones. With these kinds of attitudes, Im not sure things CAN be fixed without eventual violence. And please dont misconstrue that to say I'm in favor of revolution or anything like that. I just don't see any resolution to the problems we face.

[rockman6]

Looks like I'm finding an off site place to park...

[Fallguy]

I could be wrong....but I'm thinking even if this somehow passes out of the legislator the governor will veto it and since the legislature will be adjourned by then, that'll be the end of it.

Then legislators can say they voted for it....and since the governor isn't up for reelection right now, it won't matter to him.