Employee Safe Commute (Parking Lot) Campaign

[Worriedman]

The problem is the Leadership in the House, (which gets its direction from the Governor). One must remember that Haslam and Harwell have been huge backers of Lamar Alexander in all his campaigns. (Proof that he is non supportive of firearms rights was his stance as the ONLY Republican Senator to vote against the permit holder's ability to carry in National Parks).

Had we a Governor that championed this issue, it would be a foregone conclusion for passage, but currently we have one who, until just shy of the election for the seat, was a member of Bloomberg's Mayors Against Illegal Guns. He has never been a supporter of Firearms Rights, and is a Big Business/Big Government proponent.

We MUST show a win against the Statist Quo in Nashville. I perceive the best opportunity to achieve a beneficial win is to support Lt. Col. Courtney Rogers in her contest in House District 45 against Debra Maggart. Maggart is Caucus Chair, and is one of the legs of the tripod Harwell/Maggart/McCormick that has strangled the House actions relative to firearms issues. Take out one leg of a tripod and it can not stand.

I feel that we need to point all our artillery at that one single race and fire for effect if we want to show that we are serious as grass roots organizations. I will be espousing this to the Tea Party groups across the State, and we need to get any and all who are sick and tired of the Liberal Republican Junta that thumbs their nose at the hundreds of thousands of gun owners who wish to see a return to Constitutional principals in Tennessee.

[Bigiron]

Amen, Worriedman.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Haslam could very well improve his bona fides if he did stand up and support this.

Good job, Worriedman.

[GKar]

From a previous post, quoting a response from Ramsey [emphasis added] : " I believe the state must balance both gun owners' right to bear arms as well as business owners' right to control their own property. This is why I support making it legal for handgun carry permit holders to keep their guns in their car in most public parking lots."

Weasel words. They are becoming more prevalent in his vocabulary as his association with Haslam and Harwell continues. Sad, and disappointing.

Edited March 30, 2012 by GKar

[R_Bert]

Stacey Campfield comments on the issue (including Ramsey opposing the ammendment for those who possess a hunting license)

http://lastcar.blogspot.com/2012/03/its-where-not-why.html#comment-form

[Sky King]

Stacey Campfield comments on the issue (including Ramsey opposing the ammendment for those who possess a hunting license)

http://lastcar.blogs...ml#comment-form

I have tried four times to look at Stacey Campfield's blog. Through the link you posted and by going directly to his blog. For some reason, I can not make it work.

[R_Bert]

I have tried four times to look at Stacey Campfield's blog. Through the link you posted and by going directly to his blog. For some reason, I can not make it work.

Not sure what is going on with your side, but I just clicked on the link in your reply & it worked fine.

Currently, it is his most recent blog (Friday 3/31/2012 for posterity) http://lastcar.blogspot.com/

[Oh Shoot]

I have tried four times to look at Stacey Campfield's blog. Through the link you posted and by going directly to his blog. For some reason, I can not make it work.

Sky King's link puts you toward bottom of page is all.

R-Bert's link you put you at top of latest entry.

- OS

[Sky King]

Sky King's link puts you toward bottom of page is all.

R-Bert's link you put you at top of latest entry.

- OS

Ok, I got it to work from home. I was trying at work. It would take to the blog but I could not scroll up or down the page to see the whole thing.

[Moped]

I thought the Hunting license was one of the better amendments to this bill. I can't count the times I've left to go hunting at the end of the work day, with an unloaded rifle or shotgun hidden under all my gear. That's just common sense. I really question how much support Mr. Ramsey actually has for the Second Amendment. I think he really could care less. He is just trying to placate us and hang on to a few more votes come the next election.

I liked the third comment! The poster is spot on. I think there is an argument to be made about the HCP statute creating a whole different class of people that are more equal than others. Now is not the time for that argument though. After we kick out the current "Second Amendment Supporters, But Only When It's Convenient" crowd, then we can move to what the Second Amendment is really about. I'd love to see us become like Alaska, Arizona and Vermont.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Moped

[Worriedman]

From the Guns and Leather Facebook Page:

TN State Rep., Debra Maggart and Speaker of the House, Beth Harwell taking a class at our Hendersonville store with instructor Warren Smith (left). Our sales guy, Michael Stanley, wanted to get in the picture too!

Now imagine that, two of the most virulent opponents to the Employee Safe Commute Bill, taking an opportunity to get some face time around guns.

I am surprised one did not jump off the shelf and do something sinister...

Edited April 2, 2012 by Worriedman

[QuietDan]

If restricting provisions in a bill to HCP holders, I really don't have a problem with that, if that's what it takes to get a bill passed. Half a loaf is always better than none. Additionally, more and more people are getting HCPs as a percentage of the Tennessee population. And, if the safe commute goes through with HCP provisions, then that is just one more incentive for folks to get their HCP. Then, a year or two goes by without trouble, and we know it will, then an amendment to the law goes through without any trouble to just roll it over to all gun owners. You're half way to constitutional carry by then.

Ok, now leap on me and beat me up. I imagine I'm not the first nor the last to recommend this course of action or be willing to accept it as an interim stage to an inevitable outcome.

[Sky King]

I thought the Hunting license was one of the better amendments to this bill. I can't count the times I've left to go hunting at the end of the work day, with an unloaded rifle or shotgun hidden under all my gear. That's just common sense. I really question how much support Mr. Ramsey actually has for the Second Amendment. I think he really could care less. He is just trying to placate us and hang on to a few more votes come the next election.

I liked the third comment! The poster is spot on. I think there is an argument to be made about the HCP statute creating a whole different class of people that are more equal than others. Now is not the time for that argument though. After we kick out the current "Second Amendment Supporters, But Only When It's Convenient" crowd, then we can move to what the Second Amendment is really about. I'd love to see us become like Alaska, Arizona and Vermont.

Last year I told Rep. Vance Dennis that I would rather see the bill sponsored by Rep. Josh Evans totally die than see it pass in it's watered down version that it had become. For me, it was all or nothing. The bill that is now before us was on the verge of dying. Leadership in both chambers had commented on several occasions that there was no way the bill would make it unless the scope was narrowed. Ron Ramsey had also said that he wanted a provision exempting parking lots with fences.

The amendment EXPANDING the bill to include licensed hunters could very well be the poision pill. Let me make myself VERY clear, I would like to include EVERY person who can LEGALLY possess a firearm but there is NO way that is going to pass. I have posted before that I do NOT consider handgun permit holders to be a special class because having a permit is a CHOICE. Essentially ANYBODY who can legally possess a firearm can get a permit. This is NOT like limiting a privilage to people in specific jobs such as law enforcement.

Right now, unless you are commissioned law enforcement, military on duty, licensed security or a few other limited groups, you can NOT carry a firearm in Tennessee without a permit. While many of us would like to see that changed with a Constitutional Carry law but that does not exist right now. Efforts have been successful over the many years to expand the places handguns can be carried but they have been limited to permit holders and this is not going to be any different.

WHEN the General Assembly finally recognizes the Constitutional right to carry by law abiding citizens, then we can get the laws changed to allow persons to carry in all the places that we have worked to allow permit holders.

All I can do is ask if those who want to include others in this bill are willing to trade the ability for those other than permit holders to keep a firearm in their car for restrictions that prohibit EVERYBODY from keeping their firearms in their car if their employer has a fenced lot. That is where it is headed. The General Assembly leadership wants a narrow scope or this bill will die whether we like it or not.

The rumor now is that Representative Campfield is planning to propose another amendment to the bill when it gets to the Senate floor. An amendment to exempt parking lots with a fence. So whether you are a licensed hunter or a permit holder, you won't be able to keep your firearm in your car if your employer has a fenced lot, so the expansion to include licensed hunters will be WORTHLESS. It may all be pointless anyway Campfields expansion to hunters kills the bill.

[Worriedman]

QuiteDan,

I too would like to see Constitutional Carry, but think it is about as likely to happen with the current Administration as closed Primaries and for the same reason, lack of Conservatives in the Junta.

I would be OK with the Bill limiting the scope to Permit Holders at this time, (not that I think it is correct OR Constitutional) it would be the impetuous to increasing the number of those who perfect their Permits, and once they have skin in the game, it is more likely that pressure for true pro-firearms legislation would be supported by a broader base.

[QuietDan]

QuiteDan,

I too would like to see Constitutional Carry, but think it is about as likely to happen with the current Administration as closed Primaries and for the same reason, lack of Conservatives in the Junta.

I would be OK with the Bill limiting the scope to Permit Holders at this time, (not that I think it is correct OR Constitutional) it would be the impetuous to increasing the number of those who perfect their Permits, and once they have skin in the game, it is more likely that pressure for true pro-firearms legislation would be supported by a broader base.

Regarding: Constitutional Carry: Agreed. Agree also, unfortunately, "Not at this time."

Regarding: Bill limiting the scope to [HCP] Permit Holders: Agreed, especially "At this time."

Regarding: . . .[impetus] to increasing the number of those who perfect their [HCP] Permits: Agreed. Especially "at this time."

Politics is the art of the possible, and we have to know what is possible and what is not possible AT THIS TIME. And, that means we also ask: IF NOT NOW, WHEN?

Increasing the number of HCP holders is KEY, for the reasons you outline.

As hard as everyone is working towards a Constitutional Carry perspective for Tennessee, I agree that the larger the group of HCP holders becomes, the more seriously the legislators MUST take the issue. We can all help with that, with appeals to our spouses, relatives, friends, and co-workers. Bug them to get their HCPs instead of thinking about it and talking about it and having a zillion excuses not to. They'll be glad they did.

What are we sitting at? Four or five percent of the Tennessee population hold an HCP? Double that to eight, ten percent, which is do-able, and you've got a real voting block that will carry the day. Thank goodness that Tennessee is a Shall Issue state, the State does have to give one to every citizen who qualifies.

It seems to me that, it doesn't matter that an HCP is officially limited to handgun carry, because of the background check, it really is a Trustworthy Citizen Badge. Because it takes real effort with a class and range time, and paperwork, and money, it demonstrates that an HCP holder is willing to WALK THE TALK. The legislators have to pay attention to citizens that show they are willing to walk the talk. For these reasons, it seems to me, an HCP is probably more important than Hunting Licenses, or NRA memberships, or calls to legislators.

Correct me where I might be mistaken.

Edited April 2, 2012 by QuietDan

[Worriedman]

Regarding: Constitutional Carry: Agreed. Agree also, unfortunately, "Not at this time."

Regarding: Bill limiting the scope to [HCP] Permit Holders: Agreed, especially "At this time."

Regarding: . . .[impetus] to increasing the number of those who perfect their [HCP] Permits: Agreed. Especially "at this time."

Politics is the art of the possible, and we have to know what is possible and what is not possible AT THIS TIME. And, that means we also ask: IF NOT NOW, WHEN?

Increasing the number of HCP holders is KEY, for the reasons you outline.

As hard as everyone is working towards a Constitutional Carry perspective for Tennessee, I agree that the larger the group of HCP holders becomes, the more seriously the legislators MUST take the issue. We can all help with that, with appeals to our spouses, relatives, friends, and co-workers. Bug them to get their HCPs instead of thinking about it and talking about it and having a zillion excuses not to. They'll be glad they did.

What are we sitting at? Four or five percent of the Tennessee population hold an HCP? Double that to eight, ten percent, which is do-able, and you've got a real voting block that will carry the day. Thank goodness that Tennessee is a Shall Issue state, the State does have to give one to every citizen who qualifies.

It seems to me that, it doesn't matter that an HCP is officially limited to handgun carry, because of the background check, it really is a Trustworthy Citizen Badge. Because it takes real effort with a class and range time, and paperwork, and money, it demonstrates that an HCP holder is willing to WALK THE TALK. The legislators have to pay attention to citizens that show they are willing to walk the talk. For these reasons, it seems to me, an HCP is probably more important than Hunting Licenses, or NRA memberships, or calls to legislators.

Correct me where I might be mistaken.

I think you are spot on with your analysis across the board.

As it stands, 300+ permit holders are basically 50% of the voters in the last gubernatorial race. Double that number, and it becomes a force to be reckoned with. Now, if we could 10% of the existing number to join in and contact the Legislature on important issues, we could make a difference right now.

In my travels to the Hill, I find myself to be one of maybe 4 or 5 who actually take the time to go and visit, knock on doors, and press the flesh with our Senators and Congresspersons. If we could substantially increase that number, we could raise our effect, and not be able to be marginalized by those who would rule instead of serve.

[RobertNashville]

...tually take the time to go and visit, knock on doors, and press the flesh with our Senators and Congresspersons. If we could substantially increase that number, we could raise our effect, and not be able to be marginalized by those who would rule instead of serve.

I agree with you; unfortunately, how is someone who works for a living supposed to do that?

I get precious little vacation each year (not complaining; just making note of it) and quit a few of the days I do get have to be used for just normal "life" things that require me to be off work...I can call and write (and I do) but actually going to committee meetings and/or sitting down with my legislators is something that is not going to be possible except on a very, very limited basis.

[Sky King]

I agree with QuiteDan and Worriedman. As to the issue that RobertNashville raised. I truely understand the conundrum raised by the General Assembly schedule. Paid lobbiest are just that, PAID to be there and can go, knock on doors, presss the flesh and so on because it IS their job. The rest of us, for the most part, can not do that. While I am NOT trying to blow my own horn here, I am just really thankful that I have a work schedule that is more accomodating. Yes, there is a "BUT" here. BUT, I find it hard to believe that out of the 300,000 permit holders in this state, and of those, the thousands who are effected by this legislation that less that 6 can find the time to get to Nashville.

Not everybody can go and of those who can many may be only able to make it once but folks I am pretty sure that the members of The General Assembly are getting pretty tired of seeing just Richard, Kenny and me. We need many more people to put REAL faces and personalities and personal LIVES on these bills. This legislation is about US and we need to let them know just who "US" are. After all, the General Assembly is supposed to be working for US.

[QuietDan]

I'm not exactly sure why everyone's got to go to Nashville. We all have our State Representatives and State Senators right around the corner from us. Some of us bump into them in the grocery store or the barber shop. Just because our State Rep or Senator isn't on the relevant committee(s) doesn't mean that they don't rub elbows with the one's that are.

I'm kind of making this up, but if a group of TGO folks invited a State Rep to the gun range on Saturday, or set up a Breakfast at a local constituent's restaurant, and bent his or her ear in that "gosh I love you and just want you to know how we all feel" in that sincere/insincere way that could just as easily turn into "cross us and we and all our thousands of friends will work against you in the next election." If THAT message is sent and received they'll talk to the State Reps and Senators on the committees by at least saying "help me out here, they're after my hide."

I'm thinking five or six folks at a local breakfast or lunch once in a while could make true believers out of some of these State Reps and Senators. It might not mean running all the way to Nashville. Then you're playing "I'll hit 'em high and you hit 'em low" with Worriedman and Sky King and the rest of the Nashville crew.

Someone out here has got to have more experience in this "gentle arm-twisting" that's firm enough to suggest it could turn into "I'll twist your arm until your shoulder dislocates." Otherwise, how does any buying and selling get done? Isn't this legislative stuff just buying and selling and horsetrading?

Someone straighten me out.

[Worriedman]

Someone straighten me out.

You are operating under the mistaken assumption that Legislators are in the business to serve the constituents. In reality, they are in the Power accumulation business. As individuals donate very little money to re-election campaigns, those individuals are very low in the pecking order of importance to a Legislator. building personal relationships on the Hill is important, making nice with the office staffs gets you tuned in to what is really going on, that is best accomplished right in those offices, plus, they see that you are truly concerned.

I understand about burning vacation days, I would rather be deer or turkey hunting with mine, but my grandchildren are important enough that I opt to use them as I do. I will only be around a few more years, and in those I want to be as effective as I can in doing my best to leave the most free and Liberty minded society that I can for them.

[Moped]

Last year I told Rep. Vance Dennis that I would rather see the bill sponsored by Rep. Josh Evans totally die than see it pass in it's watered down version that it had become. For me, it was all or nothing. The bill that is now before us was on the verge of dying. Leadership in both chambers had commented on several occasions that there was no way the bill would make it unless the scope was narrowed. Ron Ramsey had also said that he wanted a provision exempting parking lots with fences.

The amendment EXPANDING the bill to include licensed hunters could very well be the poision pill. Let me make myself VERY clear, I would like to include EVERY person who can LEGALLY possess a firearm but there is NO way that is going to pass. I have posted before that I do NOT consider handgun permit holders to be a special class because having a permit is a CHOICE. Essentially ANYBODY who can legally possess a firearm can get a permit. This is NOT like limiting a privilage to people in specific jobs such as law enforcement.

Right now, unless you are commissioned law enforcement, military on duty, licensed security or a few other limited groups, you can NOT carry a firearm in Tennessee without a permit. While many of us would like to see that changed with a Constitutional Carry law but that does not exist right now. Efforts have been successful over the many years to expand the places handguns can be carried but they have been limited to permit holders and this is not going to be any different.

WHEN the General Assembly finally recognizes the Constitutional right to carry by law abiding citizens, then we can get the laws changed to allow persons to carry in all the places that we have worked to allow permit holders.

All I can do is ask if those who want to include others in this bill are willing to trade the ability for those other than permit holders to keep a firearm in their car for restrictions that prohibit EVERYBODY from keeping their firearms in their car if their employer has a fenced lot. That is where it is headed. The General Assembly leadership wants a narrow scope or this bill will die whether we like it or not.

The rumor now is that Representative Campfield is planning to propose another amendment to the bill when it gets to the Senate floor. An amendment to exempt parking lots with a fence. So whether you are a licensed hunter or a permit holder, you won't be able to keep your firearm in your car if your employer has a fenced lot, so the expansion to include licensed hunters will be WORTHLESS. It may all be pointless anyway Campfields expansion to hunters kills the bill.

SKy, I totally agree with you on this. I was just voicing my support for the Hunter's addition too. I have to agree with others here about half loaves and for more and more people getting their HCP! I'm ok with the bill as is, if it will pass. But I would like to have my cake with a little icing on occasion!

[waynesan]

http://www.wsmv.com/story/17313254/haslam-ramsey-wary-of-guns-in-parking-lots-bill

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) - Gov. Bill Haslam and Senate Speaker Ron Ramsey are among the prominent Republicans trying to put the brakes on a bill seeking to guarantee employees the right to store their firearms in vehicles parked at work.

[Sky King]

The Senate has bill passed the committees and is scheduled for the Senate floor but we still need phone calls and emails. Rumors still abound that there may be attempts to add bill killing amendments to it from the floor.

Now for the House bills. All the communication I hear is that Representative Jimmy Eldridge, Chairman of the Consumer and Employee Affairs Committee where the bills are assigned, supports these bills and has said the bills will get a full and fair hearing in his committee. The problem is in the SUB-committe. Mark White is the Chairman of the sub-committee and the bills are set to be heard there first. Representative Mark White is NOT being very forthcomming about where he stands on the bills.

We need a lot of calls and emails to Representative Mark White telling him that we want these bills heard.

Also it would be good to contact the bills sponsor, Representative Eddie Bass and thank him for his support for this and other Second Amendment issues. While a Democrat, it would be hard to find a stronger supporter for our rights. Representative Bass has announced that he is not going to run for re-election. He has always been in our corner in the past and his presence will be greatly missed. I have met and spoken with him and he is a very down-to-earth, common sence regular person. Something the General Assembly could use a lot more of.

[GKar]

Watched a well-choreographed bull session of a subcommittee meeting today. Managed to address every bill on their 16-item agenda except HB 3560 and its variants. White seemed absolutely beside himself with glee when Matlock made a motion to adjourn...he couldn't bang the gavel quick enough. Death by subcommittee... Its supposedly moved to next weels subcpommittee meeting...like it has been every week for over a month now. Dollars to donuts it appears last on the calendar again...and they run out of time...again.

[R_Bert]

Watched a well-choreographed bull session of a subcommittee meeting today. Managed to address every bill on their 16-item agenda except HB 3560 and its variants. White seemed absolutely beside himself with glee when Matlock made a motion to adjourn...he couldn't bang the gavel quick enough. Death by subcommittee... Its supposedly moved to next weels subcpommittee meeting...like it has been every week for over a month now. Dollars to donuts it appears last on the calendar again...and they run out of time...again.

This was my comments to the committee, and a number of other legislators..

Folks,

You covered 15 of 16 items on your agenda today, but failed to cover HB3650 ???

Pitiful.