How much is too much?

[Guest NYCrulesU]

My wife and I are discussing SHTF/WROL supplies.

The items discussed are:

- medicine/medical supplies

- food

- water

- weapons/ammo

- toiletries (TP/soap/toothpaste etc)

- survival gear (camping/fishing supplies/batteries/flashlights)

- reading material/do it yourself books/medical guides

If I've missed anything please let me know.

This mornings discussion focuses on bottled drinking WATER.

I'm of the thinking that a basic survival plan should cover no less than 3 months worth of supplies. I calculate that you should have 1 gallon of drinking water per day/per person.

I prefer Deer Park 16.9 fl oz bottles. At 1 gallon per person/per day, that figures to be almost 8 bottles per day. No one I know drinks a gallon of water a day. Atleast we don't. So lets just say 7 bottles of Deer Park a day, per person. We buy cases that have 28 bottles in them. That factors out to 1 case a day for my family of 4.

Prepping for 3 months minimum = 90 cases of 16.9 fl oz bottles of Deer Park drinking water. This is not to include cooking/bathing water which will be purchased in your basic 1 gallon no-name jugs.

Even though we have a room in the house that could handle that vast amount of water, my wife argues that the sheer volume is excessive and over the top. I say it is a neccessity and could be a life saver. (Of course this is all under the presumption of bugging IN...not bugging out).

My question to the other "preppers" on the board -

Sticking to my brand and water bottle size...if you were in my shoes, planning for a family of 4, just how many cases would you say would be sufficient?

Are my calculations about right or WAY over the top? Please, no "How will you protect it?" questions. I am just trying to calculate how much water should we have to survive 3 solid months and decide what is reasonable and what is excessive.

*Once I have the water "issue" solved, purchased and stored I will tackle FOOD.

Edited January 30, 2012 by NYCrulesU

[Mike.357]

Why mess with single serving bottles?

Store it in volume and rotate it out as need be.

Nothing wrong with tap water.

Your math looks right. For a gallon per person.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Mike.357

[UncleJak]

I have the cheap-o gallons in several off-brands. AND, lots of kool-aid and sugar!

[Guest Lester Weevils]

To justify that obsessive prepping hasn't driven past the City Limits of Sanityville-- Neither a citizen of the Kingdom of Cracked Pottery nor waiting for the next crazy bus--

Borrow this line from Tom Waits--

"Well I'm not weird about it or anything. At least I don't tie myself up first."

[peejman]

I agree, 1 gallon/person/day is typical.

If you intend to bug in, remember that your water heater holds 40+ gallons. Get a rain barrel or two. I have one 50 gallon barrel and while it might not be potable as-is, it's easy enough to boil/treat it. It's also relatively easy to make things like a solar still to generate relatively clean water.

If the aforementioned room in your house doesn't have a concrete floor, be sure you consider the weight. Water is HEAVY. Typical wood framed residential construction is rated at 40 lbs/sqft.

[FJCrusing]

I've run into a problem with the gallon water jugs. After several months they would begin to leak and after a while hit their expiration point so I started to cycle them out. I had actively kept about 30 gallon jugs of water but due to the issues mentioned I have since stopped. Any recommendations around these problems with water storage?

[Oh Shoot]

I have the cheap-o gallons in several off-brands. AND, lots of kool-aid and sugar!

Assuming they're the thin stuff like all I see, they're certain to leak, just a matter of when and how fast. Really.

- OS

[Guest NYCrulesU]

Why mess with single serving bottles?

Store it in volume and rotate it out as need be.

Nothing wrong with tap water.

Your math looks right. For a gallon per person.

While single serving bottle so take up more room (when planning for 3+ months)...I like them primarily for these reasons:

- Less worry about storage after opening (you drink can drink it all)

- Less worry about contamination after opening vs having a gallon opened/closed over a day or two

- If need to "up and go" ...easier to carry several 16.9 fl oz vs gallon jugs

I don't think I've drank tap water since 1986 lol Seriously...it's been a long time.

Shooting for a 3 month supply (family of 4)..that takes 90 cases of water = 2,520 bottles of water.

At approx. $4.25 (rounded up) per case = $382.50

Not too bad. We have some water stored already. I could buy half this month, food next month, then the rest of the water in March. Then back to food supplies in April...May...and so on.

[Oh Shoot]

I've run into a problem with the gallon water jugs. After several months they would begin to leak and after a while hit their expiration point so I started to cycle them out. I had actively kept about 30 gallon jugs of water but due to the issues mentioned I have since stopped. Any recommendations around these problems with water storage?

7 gallon Reliance Aquatainers. Wally's has them. BHP free, last forever.

City water should keep a long time. Keep bleach around, as worst can happen to it is get some algae buildup eventually if the chlorine in it leeches out. Or you can just change it every year. I've had some stored for about 8 months now, still seems okay.

Even in just an apartment, I keep 3 months worth, 12 of them.

- OS

Edited January 30, 2012 by OhShoot

[FJCrusing]

7 gallon Reliance Aquatainers. Wally's has them. BHP free, last forever.

City water should keep indefinitely.

Keep bleach around, as worst can happen to it is get some algae buildup eventually if the chlorine in it leeches out. Or you can just change it every year. I've had some stored for about 8 months now, still seems about the same.

- OS

Thanks for the recommendation. Looks like there is a 4 gallon Reliance container that sells for about $19. Might take up less space then all the single gallon jugs of water as well.

[Oh Shoot]

Thanks for the recommendation. Looks like there is a 4 gallon Reliance container that sells for about $19. Might take up less space then all the single gallon jugs of water as well.

That sounds awfully high, seems I paid about $10 for the 7 gallon ones at Wally's? Though I honestly can't exactly remember.

- OS

Edit: I see them for 14-15 online, so Wally oughtta be that or less, and of course no shipping. I've seen the 4 gallon ones there too, but also don't remember the price.

Edited January 30, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest NYCrulesU]

I agree, 1 gallon/person/day is typical.

If you intend to bug in, remember that your water heater holds 40+ gallons. Get a rain barrel or two. I have one 50 gallon barrel and while it might not be potable as-is, it's easy enough to boil/treat it. It's also relatively easy to make things like a solar still to generate relatively clean water.

If the aforementioned room in your house doesn't have a concrete floor, be sure you consider the weight. Water is HEAVY. Typical wood framed residential construction is rated at 40 lbs/sqft.

I certainly want to get to the point of purifying water and being able to be much more self sufficient ...should the future hold some real tough times....my 3+ month water supply would be for emergency use. So while I am learning to purify/filter water...my kids aren't my guinea pigs lol

Right now I am starting with learning about raising rabbits for food. Next will be how to collect and purify water....then on to another project.

Youtube has been my friend the past few weeks. I am really behind the curve. I just started prepping, while so many others have been at it for montha...if not years.

[Oh Shoot]

Also, might think about a Water Bob, 100 gallons assuming you have notice time to fill it up. Use it first.

- OS

[Oh Shoot]

Thanks for the recommendation. Looks like there is a 4 gallon Reliance container that sells for about $19. Might take up less space then all the single gallon jugs of water as well.

Although the 7 gallon ones are "stackable" they're only supposed to be stacked empty. But I've gone one high with them full, so far so good.

- OS

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Yeah maybe big stuff like aquatainers is the way to go. Hadn't thought about that.

We have kept water for many years (and never needed it YET). The refilled 2 liter soda bottles never leaked, but we never buy soda any more and a few years ago wifey got tired of seeing shelves of em in the basement and pitched them.

The cheap gallon jugs have all sprung leaks on us. Every one. Some last longer than others.

We have not yet seen a case of individual small water bottles leak, though that doesn't make it impossible. If yer dying of thirst then BHP would be the least of yer worries.

[FJCrusing]

That sounds awfully high, seems I paid about $10 for the 7 gallon ones at Wally's? Though I honestly can't exactly remember.

- OS

Edit: I see them for 14-15 online, so Wally oughtta be that or less, and of course no shipping. I've seen the 4 gallon ones there too, but also don't remember the price.

Of course while looking those up a few interesting books came up in the search results:

Getting Out: Your Guide to Leaving America (Updated and Expanded Edition)

Off on Our Own: Living Off-Grid in Comfortable Independence: One Couple's "Learn as We Go" Journey to Self-Reliance

I might need to add those to my cart as well.

[Oh Shoot]

... The refilled 2 liter soda bottles never leaked,...

Yep, they will last "forever" if kept out of direct sunlight. I've had some outside even that I didn't fill all the way as experiment, they've frozen numerous times and haven't even busted.

- OS

[Guest cardcutter]

I would like to offer another direction for you. Why not a purifier. You can get a good one for around a hundred bucks that is capable of cleaning up 200 to 250 gallons of water. It is point of use and portable. You don't have to worry about leaks. If water is available (streams,ponds,lakes) I think that would be the way to go.c at least you might want to look at them.

[Oh Shoot]

I would like to offer another direction for you. Why not a purifier. You can get a good one for around a hundred bucks that is capable of cleaning up 200 to 250 gallons of water. It is point of use and portable. You don't have to worry about leaks. If water is available (streams,ponds,lakes) I think that would be the way to go.c at least you might want to look at them.

Yep.

I'm in urb for now though. The creek nearby grows two headed fish and and you can develop film in it. Even distilling won't take out many chemicals in solution.

Amazingly, I have a spring about 3 hundred yards away, it might be viable, been meaning to take sample and have tested. Although my "survivalist" plans are not that extensive all in all, and probably won't be.

I do however, have a Katadyn Pocket purifier, does 13,000 gallons ideally.

- OS

Edited January 30, 2012 by OhShoot

[peejman]

Thanks for the recommendation. Looks like there is a 4 gallon Reliance container that sells for about $19. Might take up less space then all the single gallon jugs of water as well.

Reliance Aqua-Tainer - 7 gal. at REI.com $17

I certainly want to get to the point of purifying water and being able to be much more self sufficient ...should the future hold some real tough times....my 3+ month water supply would be for emergency use. So while I am learning to purify/filter water...my kids aren't my guinea pigs lol

Right now I am starting with learning about raising rabbits for food. Next will be how to collect and purify water....then on to another project.

Youtube has been my friend the past few weeks. I am really behind the curve. I just started prepping, while so many others have been at it for montha...if not years.

OS reminded me that I forgot to mention filling up your tub(s). While the Water Bob says it'll hold 100 gallons, most normal tubs only hold about 50. With 2 tubs, the water heater, and the rain barrel, I've got relatively quick access to 200 gallons of water without actually storing anything.

Dad gets this magazine and I get them when he's done. The web site is a good resource with tons of info... Organic Gardening, Modern Homesteading, Renewable Energy, Green Homes, DIY Projects

This is another good one... self-reliance | homesteading | backwoods | home | magazine

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Yeah we have a couple of small camping water filters that are sposed to remove "almost all bugs and viruses". Not all but real close.

Also several different kinds of water purification chemicals that wouldn't remove poison impurities but at least would kill the bugs.

As one gets older, especially if bad conditions might further weaken the immune system, 99.999 percent bug-free water is not always good enough. That one lucky giardia that manages to sneak thru could make a big problem if the emergency room is closed. So I plan to both chemically treat AND filter any water which is the least bit suspect.

Long ago we got what appears to be a real rugged 55 gal blue plastic water drum. Nowadays it sits empty in the basement. It would suffice as a rain barrel if things got that bad, and as others said, if there is a heads-up before a disaster we'll turn on a garden hose into the water drum and also fill up the tub. Can't see filling the big barrel with water to sit for many years turning into a science project, a veritable microbiological zoo, just in case something happens suddenly. And also, when that big barrel is full of water, you don't just shove it over if it happens to be in the way.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Oh Shoot]

.... While the Water Bob says it'll hold 100 gallons, most normal tubs only hold about 50. With 2 tubs, the water heater, and the rain barrel, I've got relatively quick access to 200 gallons of water without actually storing anything.

Maybe if you have an actual old timey stopper for the plug it'll hold the water.

But the Water Bob has a nifty pump built into it. Plus it goes to 11!

- OS

[peejman]

Maybe if you have an actual old timey stopper for the plug it'll hold the water.

But the Water Bob has a nifty pump built into it. Plus it goes to 11!

- OS

I agree, the Water Bob is pretty slick. I've added one to my amazon wish list. I was merely commenting that while it says it'll hold 100 gallons, that's not realistic for a typical household tub.

[Oh Shoot]

I agree, the Water Bob is pretty slick. I've added one to my amazon wish list. I was merely commenting that while it says it'll hold 100 gallons, that's not realistic for a typical household tub.

Yeah, I know. But seriously, neither of my tubs will hold water all that long. Most all them internal nifty plug thingies slowly leak. I guess one should get an old fashioned plug for them and be ready to pull the thing out.

'Course, the real gotcha is how would you necessarily know you needed it in time to fill it or the tubs up in the first place?

- OS

[monkeylizard]

Nashville's flood in 2010 came really close to swamping both water treatment centers when the Cumberland crested at 51.86'. If the Cumberland hits 50' or if Wolf Creek Dam goes, it's time for Nashvillians to start filling up everything in sight. Other than that, I can't think of anything in our region that would disrupt supplies for a really long time that will give an advanced notice that it's coming.

I sent a link to the WaterBob to my brother who lives in Florida though. It seems really well suited for hurricanes.

Edited January 30, 2012 by monkeylizard