I found out why your AK is so inaccurate with Wolf

[Dolomite_supafly]

So I am building a bolt gun to shoot 7.62x39. To check firing pin protrusion I pulled some heads out of some Wolf ammo so I could pop the primers. Since I had some pulled bullets I decided to check their size. Every one measured .308" and not any larger. Not .309", not .310" or even .311" but .308". They did measure 123 grains in weight.

It is their Wolf military classic ammo.

This might be the reason why that Wolf ammo shoots so bad out of your AK that is designed to use .311" bullets. I imagine the bullet being loose doesn't help velocity either.

I can say from experience that Wolf primers are some of the best primers out there, at any cost. So it would only stand to reason that the ammo would at least be decent.

Dolomite

[BryanP]

Well now that you've started this little experiment you need to continue and give us the results of some Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Tula etc...

I'd offer some up, but I don't have any. I do have a case of Wolf on the shelf.

[Caster]

I'll second the primers. I've better luck with them than any other. In thousands and thousands of loads, I've not had a single bad one. Just so you know, in 200 Fed match large rifle, I had 9 bad ones, failed to fire.

This is actually good to know. I never checked myself, only assumed. Somewhere I have a good 200 rounds of wolf I found at the gun range. I think I'll pull them and make some super light 308 win loads. OR save them for 300 BLK, if I ever get back to it.

[R1100R]

I did this a while back. My big thing was the differences in the powder charge. It was all over the place some by 6 grains. This was the black box Wolf.

The bullets were .309 to .311. The Silver Bear was much more consistent. But Golden Tiger being the best but very dirty.

I cought hell getting them separated with a bullet puller hammer due to the sealant used on the neck of the case.

[rgaper]

I'm not really surprised. 30 caliber is a complex issue when it comes to Western vs. Warsaw Pact firearms an ammunition. Going back more than 50 years there has been a difference of specs between East and West, and it's led to frustration and confusion in everything from SKS, AK, to Mini-30, and Mini-Mauser. The reality is that most buyers of bulk (Wolf, Tula, Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Smelly Bear, etc.) 7.62x39 aren't interested in anything more than it going "bang" in their gun.

Andrew of Vuurwapen Blog put out a good write-up about Tula's .223 ammunition back in late 2010 and it was really interesting to see the degree (or lack of) consistency in which it provided. That said, I've used about 4,000 rounds of the crappiest Russian ammo I could find with 100% function during a few carbine courses and individual training. At 15-50 yards for that application it's just fine. Not so much for Camp Perry, but I don't even own a pair of yellow eyeglasses, so all is good.

[Westwindmike]

I just pulled a Wolf black box 123gr HP and it measured .310.

[peejman]

So take a handful of those .308 bullets and load them for a known good rifle. Take a group of known good (larger) bullets and fire them through the rifle to compare group size. How much difference does it really make?

[Dolomite_supafly]

After I have worked up some quality loads for the bolt gun I will compare a few "cheap" brands to my loads.

Then I may take the cheap loads and load them with quality bullets. Then use the cheap bullets I pulled in my quality loads.

I will try to figure out where the inaccuracy is, bullet, powder charge, primer or casings.

This is going to have to wait a bit as I haven't got the rifle done.

Dolomite

[peejman]

[Dolomite_supafly]

I pulled some Tula today. They all measured .308 +/- .001. I will say the bullets did weigh 123g-124g. I didn't measure the powder charge but I will the next time I pull some down.

Dolomite

[Guest]

If you can fire .308 in a 7.62x51 AR-10, why does it matter in the AK if the ammo is .308 vs .310?

7.62mm actually equates to .300" right? And .308 is 7.82mm.

[Caster]

If you can fire .308 in a 7.62x51 AR-10, why does it matter in the AK if the ammo is .308 vs .310?

7.62mm actually equates to .300" right? And .308 is 7.82mm.

You're approaching it too "matter of fact". Cartridge designation rarely [accurately] coincide with bore/groove dimensions. 7,62 mm refers to a bore yes, but 7.62x.03937=.2999 Nothing is THAT caliber. I'm not sure why caliber designations have been so squirrelly over the years but we just accept it. Just look at 7,62x39 is supposed to be around .312 That's actually 7,92mm but 7,92 puts us in mind of 7,92x57 (8mm Mauser to most americans) Early bores were .318 while later revisions of the cartridge were .323! This is maddening!

Back to 7,62mm Look at the Czech 7,62x45 that's .309 or the Russian 7,62x38R [Nagant revolver] which is .295 Further the 7,62x25 Tokarev runs about .310 and the 7,62x54R is .312

NOW! What will REALLY make smoke come out your ears is when you realize MANY of these weapons vary so drastically from barrel to barrel [among the same weapon!], you wonder how they ever shoot at all. For instance, if you want to shoot the most accurate handloads you'll ever shoot in your Mosin Nagant, you'd be hard pressed to beat a good cast bullet. BUT I've seen bores run as big as .316+ For proper fit, that would put your cast bullet as high as .318+

Luckily 7,62x51 and it's commercial brother .308 Win as well as 7,62x63 [30/06] are very well controlled for the most part. BUT here we go again, my Ishapore 2A in 7,62x51 shoots best with zero leading when I size to .3105.

You really have to understand, there's a happy medium in there from a safety stand point, but for ultimate accuracy, you MUST slug the bore and use size appropriate bullets. This applies to jacketed bullets as well as cast.

Edited February 11, 2012 by Caster