whats with all the SAO DAK LEM etc?

[hlb14]

I'm fairly new to the shooting hobby and i'm looking for something with the same trigger pull each and every time. Is there such a thing?

[Guest bkelm18]

I'm fairly new to the shooting hobby and i'm looking for something with the same trigger pull each and every time. Is there such a thing?

A striker fired pistol will be your best bet like the Glock, Springfield Armory XD, Smith & Wesson M&P, or the Ruger SR series. SA guns like the 1911 will also have a consistent trigger pull.

[Jonnin]

I'm fairly new to the shooting hobby and i'm looking for something with the same trigger pull each and every time. Is there such a thing?

Yes. Single action guns have a short, consistent pull. The classic is the 1911, but you also see this in other guns as well.

Double action only (DAO) are the same every time, with a typically very long trigger pull, often heavy as well but not always. The trigger here must lift the "hammer" each time against a spring, which requires a long pull (ignoring modern engineering things like gears, which no gun maker has discovered yet).

Proprietary action names are largely lumped under the umbrella of striker fired. These tend to NOT have the same pull. For example, glocks are known for their short rest, which means the first trigger pull is long and spongy (you are not really doing anything except fighting a spring in the trigger, its done for safety) while if you just barely let go and re-pull, the next shot is a very short trigger pull. You must physically memorize these guns, so you know how far to let go and can get it down to to the wire.

Double action guns (not DAO, these are fired 2 distinct ways) are inconsistent. The first pull is as I described the DAO above. Every pull after that is sort of like the single action gun but with a lot of trigger slop, often a HUGE amount of trigger slop.

Revolvers are an exception, a double action revolver has a slop-free trigger if you cock the hammer by hand, it is identical or nearly so to a single action revolver. Hands down, a cocked revolver (there are DAO revolvers or you can shoot a double action one uncocked like a DAO above) have the best triggers in the business unless you want to spend thousands of dollars on a competition quality 1911 style gun.

Basically, then, you want to look at single action guns or double action only guns, as a good starting place.

Note that many oddball .22 guns are single action though they look different. For example the ruger mark pistols are single action with no exposed hammer and a somewhat sloppy trigger. I do not know if there is an official name for this type but "single action" works to describe them.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Jonnin

[bigwakes]

You can start out with whatever pistol you like, but most people end up with a Glock so just start there.

[hlb14]

i don't care much at all for the way a glock fits my hand, at the moment i'm drawn to sigs as they seem to fit my hand perfectly

Edited January 25, 2012 by hlb14

[Raoul]

i'm drawn to sigs at the moment, they just seem to fit my hand perfectly unlike the glock 19 i shot

I'm with you.

[bigwakes]

I have never owned a Sig, but if Gaston never made the Glock I would certainly consider a Sig.

[Patton]

I personally only care for Sigs with a traditional Sa/Da trigger. The SAO has disadvantages and the DAK makes it feel like a $800 Keltec.

[rgaper]

You can start out with whatever pistol you like, but most people end up with a Glock so just start there.

Good advice. I've been through just about every reputable manufacturer's firearms lineup and finally arrived at the Glock a few years ago after taking the plunge into serious self-defense training. I retired or sold off my Sigs (P229, P228, P239) in favor of a Glock 19. It didn't feel like magic in my hand the first time, but I couldn't deny the simplicity of the design. If someone doesn't like the way a Glock fits in their hand, I usually tell them to give it a few hundred rounds. If they still don't like it, buy an M&P, they're equally good. Afterall, their marketing line could be, "Smith and Wesson M&P: Glocks, for people who don't like Glocks."

[Guest drv2fst]

Kahr has a consistent trigger pull. All the Kahr's are MUCH smaller than Glocks.

[Raoul]

Good advice. I've been through just about every reputable manufacturer's firearms lineup and finally arrived at the Glock a few years ago after taking the plunge into serious self-defense training. I retired or sold off my Sigs (P229, P228, P239) in favor of a Glock 19. It didn't feel like magic in my hand the first time, but I couldn't deny the simplicity of the design. If someone doesn't like the way a Glock fits in their hand, I usually tell them to give it a few hundred rounds. If they still don't like it, buy an M&P, they're equally good. Afterall, their marketing line could be, "Smith and Wesson M&P: Glocks, for people who don't like Glocks."

I shot my first M&P this past weekend. Honestly the pistol was never attractive to me. However...after shooting that one this weekend I'd have to say I was pleased. Nice sights, good grip angle. I will now consider adding one to the stable.

[hipower]

I have both. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive of one another. You can have one, or three, of each and still be legal.

[rgaper]

Kahr has a consistent trigger pull. All the Kahr's are MUCH smaller than Glocks.

The Kahr has an extremely odd trigger pull for a semi-automatic pistol. If you grew up shooting revolvers, it probably is a nice transition. I have one listed in the classifieds right now because I hate the trigger. It's a loooooooooooooong pull, clean break, then a loooooooooooong reset. It's basically a magazine fed J-frame by design.

[Patton]

The LEM trigger that you speak of is exclusive to H&K's. I do not like H&Ks, there not for a lot of people. The LEM trigger is ok though, a lot better than a DAK Sig trigger.

[Raoul]

The Kahr has an extremely odd trigger pull for a semi-automatic pistol. If you grew up shooting revolvers, it probably is a nice transition. I have one listed in the classifieds right now because I hate the trigger. It's a loooooooooooooong pull, clean break, then a loooooooooooong reset. It's basically a magazine fed J-frame by design.

Yeah sorta. I have a PM 40 that I love, but had a CW40 I hated.

[R1100R]

A SAO SIG is a nice pistol if your into 1911 type trigger with SIG reliability. I sold mine a few months ago. But I am looking at a 220 SAO Compact.

[mikegideon]

I'm fairly new to the shooting hobby and i'm looking for something with the same trigger pull each and every time. Is there such a thing?

Glock

EDIT: Or not :-).

Edited January 26, 2012 by mikegideon

[wcsc12]

I'm fairly new to the shooting hobby and i'm looking for something with the same trigger pull each and every time. Is there such a thing?

DAK, SAO and Striker fired are your most common but DAK isn't really that common as it's proprietary Sig. LEM is proprietary H&K.

Striker fired are the ones when you have to rack the slide in order to engage the firing mechanism. (Glock, Smith and Wesson M&P, Sig P250, Springfield XD, and too many others to count)

Sig's DAK is a double action only firing system where you can pull the trigger everytime (without racking the slide) to engage the hammer (Comes on most Sig's...I know the P226 and P229 have them. I believe the P220 as well)

SAO will give you the same trigger pull but it's like at 1911 in that you can only fire from Single Action so if the hammer is down, you have to manually cock it or rack the slide to get it to cock to fire.

LEM I've never actually tried so it would be best to get info from someone else.

Now I have a question for you? Have you tried out any guns yet or put any in your hands? What caliber were you wanting?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I have both. They are not necessarily mutually exclusive of one another. You can have one, or three, of each and still be legal.

That is a great point. So far polyguny remains legal in most of the USA...

[Guest bkelm18]

You can start out with whatever pistol you like, but most people end up with a Glock so just start there.

I've bought 2 or 3 Glocks. Sold them all. God awful ergonomics.

[Knox Al]

I've bought 2 or 3 Glocks. Sold them all. God awful ergonomics.

Me too. After shooting a Sig 226 I am selling off the Glocks and switching to Sigs. The Glock is a good gun and shoots well, cheap and reliable. I just prefer Sigs.

Al

[bigwakes]

I've bought 2 or 3 Glocks. Sold them all. God awful ergonomics.

The International Ergonomics Association defines ergonomics as follows:

Ergonomics (or human factors) is the scientific discipline concerned with the understanding of interactions among humans and other elements of a system, and the profession that applies theory, principles, data and methods to design in order to optimize human well-being and overall system performance.

I would say Glock has all of that.

[Raoul]

The International Ergonomics Association defines ergonomics as follows:

Ergonomics (or human factors) is the scientific discipline concerned with the understanding of interactions among humans and other elements of a system, and the profession that applies theory, principles, data and methods to design in order to optimize human well-being and overall system performance.

I would say Glock has all of that.

Well, technically so does a brick. I'm just saying... Lots of options out there and Glock's are not the magic bean for every shooter.

[mav]

I've bought 2 or 3 Glocks. Sold them all. God awful ergonomics.

I'm with ya 100% on that one. Glock is a fantastic gun, but just doesn't feel right in my hands. I still have a G26, but I will probably sell it sometime in the future since I never use it.

[hlb14]

DAK, SAO and Striker fired are your most common but DAK isn't really that common as it's proprietary Sig. LEM is proprietary H&K.

Striker fired are the ones when you have to rack the slide in order to engage the firing mechanism. (Glock, Smith and Wesson M&P, Sig P250, Springfield XD, and too many others to count)

Sig's DAK is a double action only firing system where you can pull the trigger everytime (without racking the slide) to engage the hammer (Comes on most Sig's...I know the P226 and P229 have them. I believe the P220 as well)

SAO will give you the same trigger pull but it's like at 1911 in that you can only fire from Single Action so if the hammer is down, you have to manually cock it or rack the slide to get it to cock to fire.

LEM I've never actually tried so it would be best to get info from someone else.

Now I have a question for you? Have you tried out any guns yet or put any in your hands? What caliber were you wanting?

to answer your question yes i shot a glock either 17 or 19 not sure in a basic shooters safety class and didn't like the way the gun felt in my hand at all, i just couldn't get a firm comfortable grip on it. I also kept anticipating the shot which caused every round to travel down and to the left, something that 200 or so rounds as someone metioned might cure that. i've held a co-workers 1911 and it felt like a glove, just like all of the sig p-series guns i've held (220, 225, 226, 229). the plan is to start shooting with 9mm since ammo is cheaper and eventually carry either a 45 or 357 sig. i appreciate all the advice from you guys as you've all been here before so thanks, i just don't see myself ever being a plastic gun guy, not knocking it at all, i totally see where carrying a lighter gun would be advantagious, i'm just old school i guess