I want us to discuss something.........

[Dave Nowlin]

A few years back we took my mother out to eat for Mother's Day. We went to Carrabas on Poplar in Memphis. We were actually going to be in Destin on Mother's Day so we took her a few weeks early. I had a Colt Mustang in my KIng Ranch Super Duty and left it in the console as alcohol is served at Carrabas. While in the restaurant my truck was broken into and my pistol stolen. I told the investigating officer I have a valid Carry Permit and that my pistol was stolen. He asked me why I didn't have it on me instead of in my truck. I told him that alcohol was served there and I was told I couldn't carry in a place that served alcohol. He told me, I don't care what the law says. Next time you come to Memphis with a pistol keep it on you. Now we will have to worry about someone using it to commit a crime. I know that there are restaurants that prohibit weapons on their premises. I've made up my mind if they refuse to honor my right to protect my self and family, then I need to eat somewhere else. The restaurant certainly won't protect us.

[LayNLow]

I noticed you said a few years back, but that law has changed since then if you weren't aware. Legal to carry where alcohol is served now as long as you aren't drinking.

[Guest jackdm3]

Hey, Dave. We go there about once every 3 weeks. Hadn't noticed a sign for the Poplar/Clark Tower location. I think you can carry in places with alcohol if it's not posted and you're not drinking. Philosophies aside, that officer was right. You'll protect a weapon better than a thug. My family's full of anti's. They don't wanna be around any guns, but they understand why we keep them close at all times. It's no longer worth souring the outting by saying "I won't go here" and "No, we're not going there" and the resulting interrogations as to why. As if they need to be reminded.

So in the beginning of the whole posting issue, my wife and I refused posted places. We withheld funds from posted establishments on principle, but it got old avoiding so many places. We later learned that some of the postings are corporate policies and MANY of the workers WANT us there! If found out and they have a problem, they're to ask you out and if you don't, it's trespassing and here comes the popo's. But I've NEVER heard of a case in Memphis of someone being found out but not told and then arrested. We just have people shooting each other for parking too close to somebody's car! You don't drive a Hummer, do you?

[Guest Baron]

I have a small safe mounted in my car. It would take more effort than what most smash-n-grab thieves are going to put in to get into it. Due to a large gun theft in my home years ago (which, I too, received a brow beating from the cops), I am not comfortable leaving it in a console or glove box.

Unfortunately for me, that is where my Glock is 1/2 the time. Seems that darn sign is everywhere. It can be a pain at times, but I think it is the best solution if you choose to follow the law.

The cops comments mean absolutely nothing. It is your life and it is up to you if you choose to follow the law or not.

[Guest Catfish36]

The cops comments mean absolutely nothing. It is your life and it is up to you if you choose to follow the law or not.

I feel your frustration with the LEO. A Cop told you to disobey a law (at that time)...

Once again a victim being blamed for the actions of a criminal. I just get sick of it.

I don't care if I leave something valuable sitting on the hood of my car. It's my stuff on my car..whoever took it is a dishonest, low down, dirty scum theif!

Some would argue that you are better off in high crime areas just to leave your car doors unlocked. If someone wants in..they are getting in regardless..so at least you won't have to pay to have your window replaced.

My experience with LEO's and theft is that the officer from the beginning has no intentions of ever even trying to catch the guy or do anything at all about it. He fills out his paperwork from you and files it..nothing more.

And our insurance rates keep rising because of it...you pay the deductible..insurance covers the rest...bad guy gets to keep your stuff. Cop goes back to his coffee and is more worried about stopping the hard working honest citizen from going 10 miles over on his way to work than he is of stopping the drug pushers and theives.

uh..sorry..am I ranting again?

[Guest carter]

I carry every where I go... Unless its In a federal building or court house... Air port... Those are major ... But I don't care about anything else ... The can ask me to leave if they want I don't care. Rather that happen than me not being able to defend myself ... If I know I'm drinking I'll just carry a pocket knife ... Which I don't do often anymore ...

[alwaysonjohn]

As long as there are not signs, and the building is not a federal building/post office/school/bar/airport/, and i'm not drunk... I carry. If someone complains (not that i open carry), then I leave... For parks i always try to look up the park rules before I carry there.

[Steelharp]

Being a musician, I can be in some "interesting" areas at odd hours. Several years ago, I was talking (to an active member of this board, a retired LEO) about it, saying I hated having to leave my gun in the car while I was in the gig. He told me I was an idiot, take the gun in with me. The hell with the signs. So...

[Oh Shoot]

Being a musician, I can be in some "interesting" areas at odd hours. Several years ago, I was talking (to an active member of this board, a retired LEO) about it, saying I hated having to leave my gun in the car while I was in the gig. He told me I was an idiot, take the gun in with me. The hell with the signs. So...

If you use your weapon in a good shoot, you're not to be charged with violation of any of the firearms statutes that led up to it. That sort of hints at ... well, you decide what it hints at.

- OS

[daddyo]

If you use your weapon in a good shoot, you're not to be charged with violation of any of the firearms statutes that led up to it. That sort of hints at ... well, you decide what it hints at.

- OS

Can you cite case law or provide a link that verifies that?

[Oh Shoot]

Can you cite case law or provide a link that verifies that?

TCA. Mentioned a good bit from time to time here. Enacted in 1994.

"39-17-1322. Defenses.

A person shall not be charged with or convicted of a violation under this part if the person possessed, displayed or employed a handgun in justifiable self-defense or in justifiable defense of another during the commission of a crime in which that person or the other person defended was a victim."

"part" is 39-17-1301-63, the weapons law section.

- OS

Edited January 25, 2012 by OhShoot

[daddyo]

TCA. Mentioned a good bit from time to time here. Enacted in 1994.

"39-17-1322. Defenses.

A person shall not be charged with or convicted of a violation under this part if the person possessed, displayed or employed a handgun in justifiable self-defense or in justifiable defense of another during the commission of a crime in which that person or the other person defended was a victim."

"part" is 39-17-1301-63, the weapons law section.

- OS

Thanks.

[Smith]

If you use your weapon in a good shoot, you're not to be charged with violation of any of the firearms statutes that led up to it. That sort of hints at ... well, you decide what it hints at.

- OS

TCA. Mentioned a good bit from time to time here. Enacted in 1994.

"39-17-1322. Defenses.

A person shall not be charged with or convicted of a violation under this part if the person possessed, displayed or employed a handgun in justifiable self-defense or in justifiable defense of another during the commission of a crime in which that person or the other person defended was a victim."

"part" is 39-17-1301-63, the weapons law section.

- OS

Yep, This! ^ Besides all they can do is ask you to leave. If at that point you refuse, you will be charged with trespassing. To enforce the "carrying past a posting" law an officer woul dhave to see you blatantly walk past the sign. There is a reason God gave each one us a brain and not just the police. This is likely what the officer was suggesting to you.

[NadieLite]

The Carraba's in Collierville has a sign posted for no guns.

[Guest RebelWithACause]

I have been a CCW holder for 17 years now and carry everywhere regardless of what their sign says. I believe in my constitutional rights above a posted sign in a restaurant. If I need it, I'll have it. I'm not going to change my habits for whatever flavor-of-the-month sign is posted. I know it's been beaten to death, but...."I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6."

Feel free to flame me for my 'blatant disregard of local statutes.'

(It's also legal to carry in unsecured areas of airports...like if you were meeting someone there to pick them up, etc.)

[JAB]

Guys,

I am nobody on this sight. Not a moderator, not an administrator or anything. Still, I would simply suggest that maybe we should be careful about discussing knowingly and willfully breaking carry laws. Yes, the sign law is stupid but it is still a law and carrying past a proper sign is illegal. Do I blame someone for doing so? Honestly, no. Do I think we should keep bugging our Senators and Reps to change the stupid law? Yes. Such stupid signs do not have the force of law in many of our neighboring states nor should they have the force of law, here. However, I am not sure discussing illegal activity on a publicly accessible, firearms related site is the best course of action.

If someone carries past a properly posted sign then, by the law, 'they' certainly can do more than simply, 'ask you to leave.' I don't think the officer would have to observe someone actually walking past the sign while armed - the officer would simply have to see a person inside a properly posted establishment while armed. So if some particularly anti shift manager, bartender or server sees the grips of your pistol peeking out of your pocket and calls the cops you could be facing legal trouble in the form of a $500 fine and (as has been discussed in other threads) possible temporary or even permanent loss of your carry permit. Has this happened? No one seems to have an example. Will this happen? I hope not. Could this happen? Damn straight it could. Just because a cop tells you to break the law doesn't make doing so any less illegal and doesn't mean that another cop won't charge you for it. It isn't the cop that will have to pay the fine and possibly lose rights and priveledges, it is you.

Also, keep in mind that one part of the TGO code of conduct that TGO David has posted is:

Do not discuss illegal activities of any sort.

Illegal activities should never be discussed here...

Personally, I still try to avoid patronizing and supporting any place that doesn't believe in my right to defend myself despite the steps I have taken to do so legally. Luckily, in the Knoxville area there aren't that many signs on places I would go, anyhow. Of course, some places are posted and it isn't always possible to completely avoid such places. That said, whether or not I would knowingly carry past one of those signs when there is little to no chance I would be 'made' isn't something I will discuss here.

Edited January 25, 2012 by JAB

[Dave Nowlin]

Actually the officer that night told us the same 2 guys had been working that area of Memphis that night and they had answered 6 calls for vehicle break-ins. In one of the break-ins they had stolen the duty weapon and handcuffs of a Sheffifs Deputy. The officer was actually very friendly to us. The alcohol drinking part is not a problem for me. I haven't touched a drop since August 10th 1980. I am driving a 2011 Ford King Ranch Diesel. I still have family in Memphis but wouldn't live there again if you gave me a house there. We left Memphis in 1975 after 3 home break-ins in 12 months. I worked for Memphis Light, Gas & Water for 10 1/2 years. I walked away from that job and my retirement for the benefit of my family. I only wish I had left sooner.

[tugboat]

I agree with everything said. Including JAB's post. Its' illegal...Breaking the law is breaking the law. On the flip side...I carried everywhere except for federal buildings, schools, post office. airports, ect.... I dont open carry and and can say that its nearly impossible to see it due to how i dress. I have a customer that manages three restaraunts in Knoxville. He says that the franchise policies are to post however he has never acted on people carrying. And he notices it quite frequently.

[TNWNGR]

JAB offers good advice on not airing intent to disobey or ignore a law or ordinance. The reality is that people do so all the time and plead ignorance or simply admit to doing so. By all means take your own counsel in this but in doing so recognize and weigh the risks and consequences. I’m a LEO and have to abide by the same laws as others along with a lot of departmental rules and regulations that are more restrictive. I consider the “shall issue” handgun carry permit as well as the “Castle Doctrine” law as this state empowering its citizens.

As to the comment on police not wanting to go out and catch vehicle burglars. Well, unless you catch them in the act it’s not quite that easy. Good surveillance cameras or witnesses help a lot but absent that it comes down to fingerprints, DNA samples, pawns or catching the criminal with stolen property and such. It’s always great though when someone they’ve offended reports them to us and we get to stop their crime spree for a while. I had a perfect Series 70 Colt Combat Commander with fixed Millet Sights, beavertail safety, long trigger and holster stolen from my truck 19 years ago and never recovered it. So I can relate to how the original poster felt.

[daddyo]

Unless it's a government building that requires me to enter, I'm not going in if it's posted. Simple as that.

I'm not going to break the law; I don't care what an LEO says. He's not going to be there if I'm made and they haul me to jail.

If you willfully ignore legally posted signs, then you can't say that you're a law-abiding citizen, and that's exactly what the gun haters are looking for.

[alwaysonjohn]

for private buildings its up to the owner and the LEO if they want to prosecute (If there are signs I wouldn't risk my gun being taken away!). But back on topic, I have worked interesting cases of a soldier that ran off armed to catch some burglars that never took anything from him. The questions is whether he was justified to point a gun at them when he was not defending his property. In the end, since he caught them in the act of burglarizing other folks cars, it was at night, it was 3 on 1, we decided that he was justified to use his pistol.

Fort Campbell soldier chases, catches three teenage burglars | The Leaf Chronicle