Just got worn out about the 92fs

[Guest lostpass]

So I am at a small party. Talking to a newly met dude. He seems like a nice fellow and I steer the conversation towards guns. I was thinking the guy was a gun control person and wanted a friendly debate about gun control. Never judge a book by it's cover or a car owner by his coexist bumper sticker I guess. Anyway I bring up guns and he likes guns. (I was surprised). He asks me what I have. I say a ruger 10/22. That goes over okay but apparently a savage is better. No big deal. Handguns? he inquires. 92fs I reply (I have a phoenix 22 but I decided not to mention this)

This is where things get weird.

I get fed a litany of problem with the 92fs. first it isn't military grade. Okay, I say but I also aver that the differences between the 92fs and M9 are minor. Then I hear that the 92fs killed several seals during testing because the slide blew off and, well, killed them one way or another. The 92fs, I was also told, has terrible malfing problems. I was told that I'd be lucky to get through a magazine without a stoppage. I asserted that I did own one it had always been reliable. That countered with "you're at a range and we are talking real life" then I go a lecture about some block failure (still confused). slide mounted safety problems, and a laundry of other problems with the 92fs. It left my head spinning. I also go a long list of better weapons. Sigs, Glocks, HKs, CZs, other brands I can't remember right now. Probably high point was in there somewhere.

He said everything as if it were a fact instead of an opinion (a good way to win a debate) but it left my head spinning. That guy had a lot of hate for the 92fs and I had nothing to come back with.

My 92fs has been perfectly reliable but is this a standard take on the 92? Is it a considered to be unreliable? Is it considered to be a PoS by people in the know? Either way, you can have my beretta 92 when you pry it from my cold dead fingers or pay me a decent premium over what I paid for it.

Weird night.

[Oh Shoot]

Guy totally full of disinformation, misinformation, hamartia, hubris and plain old bull pucky regarding the 92/M9.

Other than that, he was right on.

- OS

[Caster]

You were talking to an idiot. Did you know?

[MacGyver]

Beretta haters, especially 92 haters my be worse than Glock haters. The 92FS is a reliable, accurate platform.

[rgaper]

He could have just said, "The M9/92FS sucks" and called it a day.

My first handgun was a Beretta 92FS and I still own it, but haven't fired it in years. It's an OK pistol, but there really are a ton better firearms out there for self defense. Generally, the only people who carry them these days are those who are issued them and/or otherwise forced to. I don't think I've ever seen one in any of the courses I've taken anywhere in the country. Here are a couple of my own personal issues and observations with it...

It's huge and heavy. For the size and weight of the gun, you'd think it holds 30 rounds or be chambered in .50AE. Compare a Glock 19 (same mag capacity) and it's insane how much more weight and size efficient it should be.

Manual safety/decocker mounted on the slide. Contemporary training is to send the slide forward upon reload by overhand gripping the slide and letting it fly home. If you do that with an M9, you'll probably end up either decocked or on safe which in a self defense or combative environment is what might be called "not good."

The other problem with the manual safety/decocker is that to overcome the issue, you need to train to use the slide stop OR slingshot OR use the front of the slide for releasing the slide. Will this cause translation issues for any other pistols you own/shoot? Maybe.

[hipower]

Beretta haters, especially 92 haters my be worse than Glock haters. The 92FS is a reliable, accurate platform.

I agree with you mac, on both points. I have owned several 92s and still have a Desert Storm Commerative. But I rarely shot the 92, just wasn't a fit for my hands. Not a negative commentary on the guns, just a personal preference over size and ergonomics.

[Guest Plainsman]

I think the slide blowing off thing did happen once or twice during some type of military testing, but it was only a very limited number of guns and was due to some metallurgy problem. I think they got it fixed back in like 1987 or something like that. Heck, even that is something I read on the internet...and we all know what to think about the things we read on the internet!

You've got a fine pistol there with the Beretta. Let me guess, he owned a Taurus?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Plainsman

[EMB145]

Self preservation comes in many forms. I personally prefer the M1911 to the M9, but guess what. My opinion doesn't mean anything to anyone except to me.

The military trained me on the M1911 and being human I am objective to change. It doesn't make me right. If that guy prefers a straw and a brick of copier paper, let him roll with it.

I personally love the CZ-82. That just works for me. It doesn't make it right for anyone else.

Don't get caught up in arguments with people like this. If the 92fs fits YOUR requirements, case closed.

Edited January 25, 2012 by EMB145

[gunrunner32]

Shortly after my sister moved out of the house and had turned 21, my dad asked me what kind of pistol he should get. He wanted a 9mm to replace his Ruger P89, I was a little mad at first since that was "my" pistol and he gave it to my sister. Anyways I have since added about 15 more pistols to my collection so I guess I'm not hurting for the P89 that bad. Back to the topic, I found a guy on another forum that had a 92FS for 430$ shipped, so I bought it. I bought it knowing that they are easy to completely disassembly and the parts that did break were easily replaced. I can honestly say that I have put roughly 15k through a M9 and the only issues that I had were the trigger spring breaking and I had 2 locking blocks break. On the 92FS that I gave to my dad, he has put roughly 2k through it and to my knowledge he has only had 1 stovepipe, and nothing has broken. I did however replace the trigger spring in it with a Wolff enclosed trigger spring. I've been more than happy with the Beretta as a whole, I personally will still lean more towards a Sig P226 if it were a 9mm I was after. But to each their own, that's why there are so many diffent types of guns out there. I will be starting a project gun soon for a friend in Washington based on the Taurus PT92, for those of you who have seen the movie Romeo and Juliet (I have not), John Leguzamo's character carries a gold and silver PT92 with a compensator on it. Should be a fun project and since I already know the pistol for the most part, I know Taurus has made their changes, it should be an easy one. I'll keep you posted on that project, and I wouldn't worry about opinion on this gun or that gun type of thing. Everyone has had their experiences and have taken different things away from them. I personally won't buy a Dodge again, my last Dodge was ridiculous in upkeep costs and the one prior to that was nothing but a money pit, Chevy hasn't done wrong by me yet. Enjoy the Beretta and shoot the hell out of it, if you break it and want some assistance I have some armorer level PowerPoint presentations that I can email you and it will talk you through how to get it apart and fix what's broken.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

92FS-- From my cold dead hands...

[Oh Shoot]

I think the slide blowing off thing did happen once or twice during some type of military testing, but it was only a very limited number of guns and was due to some metallurgy problem. ...

Yeah, a grand total of 14 cases of slide cracks back in late 80's, most fired over 10,000 rounds. Only three cases I think of slide actually blowing off. Never totally nailed down, but seemed to be a short lived production prob with metallurgy process at the Italian plant.

Even though the prob ceased, Beretta added a part to prevent slide from coming off during a catastrophic failure.

- OS

[LngRngShtr]

Of course if your a history buff you can't ignore the fact that is very closely resembles a Walther P-38, and you never hear anyone trash talk that bit of engineering..

just cut the frame and make it fat for a double stack mag and stretch the slide to the end of the barrel and a few minor cosmetics .....

too many folks believe what they read and never try it for themselves ,... consider the source and move on...

John

[TMF]

Let me preface this by saying that I do own a Beretta 96.

Now, Gunrunner can probably weigh in on this as well, but during my military career I've put somewhere between 50k-ish rounds through various M9s. I was also the guy who was responsible for the functionality of my organization's weapon systems. From a pool of 12 x Beretta M9s ranging between 10k-100k rounds through the pistol over the course of several years:

- 8 x broken locking blocks. (This is a common issue when firing so many rounds at a time. We're talking nearly 1k in a day. I've learned to have spare locking blocks or locking block/barrel assemblies on hand at the range)

- 1 x cracked slide. (Before we upgraded to thicker brigadier slides I heard this was a common problem. I don't know how to classify "common"; we're talking a unit that has around 1,000 M9s on it's books so maybe a few cracked and it became known as "common". I've only seen one, and I'm not sure at what point the slide became cracked. I was in the arms room doing an inventory and was like "hey, look at this sh*t!)

This may be where some people get their information on the internet regarding the reliability of the weapon. I doubt anyone has been killed by a slide breaking... that sounds rediculous... I'm assuming he saw that on "Sin City" and regarded it as truth. Overall it's a great weapon and has great reliability in austere conditions. I wish they'd improve the strength of the locking blocks, but then again these locking blocks were in the US Army supply system. I wouldn't at all be surprised if the ones we had were of lower quality than what Beretta has on the open market, but I don't know that for sure. My 96 is nearly exactly the same as my M9 was and I dig it. I haven't broken a locking block yet, but then again, I'm not putting 5k rounds through it in a weeks time.

[Guest jackdm3]

I've worn my Brigadier 96 Elite for 11 years. It's heavy, ugly with scratches, sawdust and paint chips, but with no safety, it tends to go boom when I need it to after 5K rounds. Only thing I wear out is 1911 hammer springs installed to replace the 20# original.

And when they make me get cleaned up, there's this:

Edited January 25, 2012 by jackdm3

[MrBrian]

Everything he said was right, and everything you said was wrong. He was full of hot air, throwing out random misleading "facts". Yep, you were arguing with a Democrat. Yes, I just went there :-)

[DaveTN]

The Beretta had problems in the beginning. Here’s a story about it.

The True Story of the Beretta M9 Pistol

NOTE: No SEALS were killed in the making of the M9.

[TNWNGR]

I own a 92FS which has performed well every time I’ve had it out and shot it, while it’s not my favorite pistol it is functional and reliable. My only issue with it is its overall size and bulk, plain and simple it’s a service pistol so bulk was a non-issue. I carry and shoot a Glock 22 and 27 as duty pistols and have years of training with them. While I know firsthand how well they work I have little love towards them or any other polymer gun for that matter. The point here is I may not care much for a particular pistol but if I know it works well and it’s what I have to use then I will. Some people like to make themselves appear to be subject matter experts but aren’t even close to any level of knowledge so just tune them out.

[TGO David]

Beretta haters, especially 92 haters my be worse than Glock haters. The 92FS is a reliable, accurate platform.

Plus you can use it as a framing hammer if you ever find yourself in a predicament where a house has to be built... like, right now... and you're without.

[McAllyn]

Personally, once he started into that, I would have brought up the Phoenix just to make him bleed from the ears. Meh, he was a douche. Kudos to you for not dotting his eye and teaching him a lesson in the fine art of "ST-FU"

Mac

Oh, and the "S" in "FS" means "Safe" After the first few slides malfunctioned and threatened to hurt someone, they put an oversize head on the trigger pin and cut a groove in the slide. If the slide malfunctioned again, it would blow back, hit that oversize head, and tilt upward binding on the pin and the slide rails, effectively making it impossible to come completely off the back a la Sin City style. However, all of this proved useless once they found the metallugical flaws in the original "F" slides and corrected that issue. To my knowledge, there has not been a documented recurrance of the slide error since the correction, and definitely not since the design change.

BTW, did he bring up how someone like Jet Li could just grab your weapon and field strip it before you could pull the trigger? I love that argument.

Edited January 25, 2012 by McAllyn
trivia

[daddyo]

I've gotten to the point where I just don't enjoy discussing firearms or handgun carry with most people. Generally, if they bring it up, I just listen and stare at them as though they had a third eye.

There seem to be more know-it-alls than people who actually have some knowledge.

[Jonnin]

The 92 makes shooting a 9mm pleasant, esp if it fits your hands. Because it is big and heavy. I would never carry the thing, but then again, I would never try to carry a full sized 1911. People do it (with both), but not me. They were both designed for military/police type carry: open and part of the uniform, not for being stuck in a pocket. I really like a large heavy frame for target shooting, and hope some companies will continue to make a few rather than weightless recoil enhanced guns.

Just about any gun you can toss up will net you responses from someone who had a bad experience. If it is a big name company, you will draw in some folks who hate that company on top of it. I think you just found someone who has an axe to grind with beretta or who had some sort of 92 that was a lemon.

[Guest vthokies03]

92fs suck, send me a pm on what you want to sell it for$$$

[hipower]

I've worn my Brigadier 96 Elite for 11 years. It's heavy, ugly with scratches, sawdust and paint chips, but with no safety, it tends to go boom when I need it to after 5K rounds. Only thing I wear out is 1911 hammer springs installed to replace the 20# original.

And when they make me get cleaned up, there's this:

Pardon my lack of knowledge. What's the model in the second picture?

[TNcitizen22]

I just picked up a 92A1 the other day. It is a fantastic firearm, along with the rest of the series. Already I have put 250 rounds through it, without a hiccup of any kind. Don't let some asshat tell you its a poor choice.

[Guest jackdm3]

Beretta 86 (Cheetah) .380 ACP/9mm short