Questions on which pistol and shotgun for 3 gun

[Guest Blown4v]

I believe I am going to start going to 3 gun events. I do have a few questions on which pistols and shotguns are being used.

I am good in the rifle department but my questions are below:

Pistol:

Is 9mm the way to go? This is the caliber I had planned on using

I'm not buying a 2011 or some other high end pistol. I wanna keep this <700$

Springfield XDm...I currently have a few pistols from .380 to .45. My favorite carry piece is an XDSC in 9mm. I realize that this is not ideal for 3 gun as it has a pretty short barrel and sight radius. Knowing that I really like this gun, is one of the newer XDm models a good choice for 3 gun? If so, would a 5.25 be more ideal than the 4.5? I know the 5.25 has the fiber optic front sights and extended sight radius...

Glock...I have never been a fan of the grip angle of the glocks. That being said, I have still been looking into them. In particular, the new 34, and one of the long slide 17 models. Can someone give me the pros and cons of these.

M&P Pro 5" I had an M&P 40c that I got rid of after a year or so, but have no experience with their larger models.

Availability of aftermarket parts and ease of modification are both considerations to me

Shotguns...

I dont plan on spending 1k on a shotgun, plain and simple. I have basically been looking at 3 different models

Mossberg 930. Its semi auto and in my price range for a "stock" shotgun

Mossberg 500s and 590s...pumps, but is there truly and advantage with a semi? Serious question, as I dont know. these are well in my price range

TriStar semi auto...guns and ammo Southaven have a semi auto model that is less than 400$. Is there a reason they are this cheap?

Give me some feedback and input if you would. I'd like to start attending events this spring

Again, availability of aftermarket parts and ease of modification are both considerations to me. Thanks in advance

[bigwakes]

The Glock 34 has an extended slide release, and mag release. About 60% of competition shooters are using the 34.

I have used a Remington 870 with pretty good results in 3 gun. It's also a pretty popular model for 3 gun. You can step it up to an 1100 tactical or the latest craze SAIGA 12. The SAIGA will be my 3 gun shotgun once I get it running a little smoother.

[RWF]

1st get the carry stuff out of your head.

a hi cap that you shoot well with nice sight radius like a 5" barrel

i have only known a very few but have never met a happy tri star owner. mossy i know the Dickson sportman store has or had a 935 for $450 new, but unsure about the out of the box proformance. try calling mossy and see if they ever got the Jerry Miculek model in production.

i wasted a lot of money on shotgun atuo loaders, i highly recommend you go ahead and spend the money right the first time. most auto loaders want to shot the high brass type hunting rounds. and you want just the the light loads. a basic SX3 is around 950.

the FN comes out of the box ready to go, with high cap mag tube.

and yes YOU DO WANT a auto shotgun, i have only met a very few who can run a pump like a auto. the best one i know does not even shoot much any more.

just a note on shotgun, reloading is everything!

Edited January 23, 2012 by RWF

[nb forrest]

I've heard good things about the new Mossberg auto loaders.

[deerslayer]

Where will you be shooting? What rules will they be using?

If you plan to shoot at MSSA, they use USPSA rules, which uses minor/major scoring, which means your less-than-perfect 9mm hits will be penalized. Minor power is 125,000, major is 165,000. Multiply bullet weight in grains and velocity in fps to find your power factor. A 9mm isn't the end of the world, but it will cost you some points now and then. Like RWF said, get a hi-cap with 5" or so of barrel (XD, M&P, or Glock will be fine). If you go the Glock route, I would avoid gen4. Gen3s are still a dime a dozen. Glocks have more aftermarket support than the other two, but none will be a problem.

As far as shotguns go, a Saiga will put you in the Open division (at least in USPSA rules), and those donkey-dick mags are not as ergonomic to reload as one might think. An auto that runs 100% is a big advantage over a pump. If I were in the market for a 3 gun shotgun, I would find the right used 1100 off Gunbroker and add the goodies. A friend did just this and we share it when shooting 3 gun. It has a 26" barrel and a polychoke. It runs better than anything else that I've seen and he has <$500 in it. Also, 20" cylinder bore barrels are great for the house, but are sometimes inadequate in a 3 gun match. Some shotgun stages are decided not by who can shoot, but by who can reload the gun.

[Jonnin]

The pistol caliber has to be 9mm or more powerful (though some local clubs relax the rules). I see mostly 9mm but a few 40s and 45s and once in a while other things, 357 sig is not uncommon. But its 85% or more 9mm. Most shooters use a large frame pistol of the glock school (2 controls: trigger and mag release). You will want at least 3 X 15 round magazines or 4X10 rounders if for some reason you choose a lower cap gun. For a long time I shot a ruger p89 that I got used for like $250 --- the targets are close up and big for the pistol, by and large, so you do not need supreme accuracy @ 30+ yards here, just needs to be within 3 inches at 10-20 yards or less tops.

That said I now shoot a cz rami. Like your 9mm, it is a small gun, and I think in the last 3-gun I missed a total of 4 shots out of about 60. The cz is pretty accurate for a small gun and I am a half decent shot but regardless, it is quite doable with a carry type gun. And mine has a 10 rounder and 2 14s so I am not hauling a lot of extra ammo, also not a game breaker. I would strongly recommend going ahead and shooting your small 9mm before you spend money on a new one, unless you are looking for an excuse to buy a new gun.

For the shotgun, I have a rem 1100 bird gun with a couple of cheap modifications, extended mag tube, better recoil pad, better feed ramp, still the total gun was under $300 used and with the extras. I had it adapted to shoot very, very light loads so it can cycle the cheapest ammo. I do not know much about the models you listed but mossberg makes a good product, and with only 1 or 2 exceptions, every shotgun out there (semi auto) is basically a browning a-5 clone and most of them work very well.

So, you are looking at spending as little as zero for a pistol and $350 or so for a shotgun (used?), or as much as a grand for both guns combined, depending on how you want to play it. Three gun can get very, very expensive or you can have a blast with just a little invested, the AR is the biggest expense and as you seem to already have that covered, the rest can be done for as little or as much as you want to spend. Be sure that whatever you buy fits into the division you want to shoot -- that includes accessories like the shotgun capacity.

Edit: the above is spot on, the shotgun stage, more than 85% of the score difference is reloading and capacity. If there are say 15 targets, and your gun holds say 7+1. You knock down 8 and reload 7, and its done. The guy with a 6+1 gun has to reload twice or toss one in the chamber. The saiga shooter does not have to reload at all. Someone with speedloader sticks will edge out the one by one reloaders, by as much as 10 seconds, but those are expensive and require a lot of gunsmith work to the gun. The guy with the pump is going to have the same reloading issues AND be a hair slower (or more) from having to shuck the gun. Until you want to spend big $$ on it, though, a high capacity (to your division max) semi auto that you can load reasonably fast one-by-one is the best you will be able to do.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Jonnin

[Dave Shooter]

Blown4v,

I'll echo that 9mm is way to go unless you're shooting USPSA/Comstock/San Angelo scoring which rewards Major power factor.

Glocks are very popular and M&P is making inroads. Don't see many XDs, it might be the high bore axis? The striker fired guns have a slight advantage at some matches in that you can ground them without having to completely clear them (finger off the trigger = safety engaged) which saves time. Make sure of the rules at the match you're at before you do that! If I were to shoot striker fired gun I'd use my M&P Pro, since I'm not real fond of the Glock grip angle either.

Unless you're spending big money on matches (or are a very competitive person ) you might just shoot the pistol you have for a while.

Whatever shotgun you decide reliabiltiy is very important as clearing shotgun jams seems to take an unholy amount of time.

Good Luck!

[deerslayer]

The saiga shooter does not have to reload at all. Someone with speedloader sticks will edge out the one by one reloaders, by as much as 10 seconds, but those are expensive and require a lot of gunsmith work to the gun.

Keep in mind that speedloaders or a saiga can only be used in Open division (USPSA).

[Guest DaG]

and those donkey-dick mags

Bwahahaha! I don't care who you are that's funny!

On a serious note the new JM 930 Mossberg is slick out of the box for MSRP of $715.00 . The hard part is finding one.....

[broox]

Okay buddy, I certainly did not listen to this advice, as most people don't, but do not go buy a bunch of guns before you go to a couple of matches and see what you like. Do the pros at the Iron man shoot a compact 9mm? Heck no, but that ain't you or me. Take what you got. I had an xdm 9mm and that is the gun I still shoot, but I did not go out and buy it just for three-gun.Good Luck

[RWF]

hmmm, then why even ask?

for what it is worth, of course each of us have are likes and dislikes. but believe it or not there are a few on this forum who have been there and done that, and not just locally, or state but who do national matches and are well respected in the shooting nation! with years of experiance under there belt. there is 1 or 2 who posted on this, i believe if they did not have a life already and had money and could travel would be a household name in the shooting world and could land real sponsers to pay for there game.

even someone piss poor like myself have sponsors or in my case a sponser. health has really hurt what little game i did have over the last 2 or 3 years.

but you have to do what you think is right for you.

Edited January 24, 2012 by RWF

[slowsure]

hmmm, then why even ask?

even someone piss poor like myself have sponsors or in my case a sponser. health has really hurt what little game i did have over the last 2 or 3 years.

but you have to do what you think is right for you.

Mental or Physical?

[Guest Blown4v]

Well I do know that I am not accurate enough with the XDSC, this I am sure of. I just sold my Kimber so I am in the market for another pistol anyway. It was not an option as it only held 7+1.

I did shoot a buddy's RIA 1911 that held maybe 17+1 in 9mm and it was surprisingly a great gun, I had never heard of it. Shot very tight groupings and hit where you aimed it. I would not be opposed to that. BUT, I am partial to the XD and XDms.

I am going to go to Range USA this weekend and shoot some of the guns on my list to see which one I like the most.

I'm going to work on the pistol first then move to a shotgun. I may have a line on a buddy's Beretta semi shotgun, waiting on that to play out.

And if and when I go, what do I do exactly? I would be going to MSSA as its closest to me. Do I go and watch a few matches to get an understanding of the flow of the process? Is it self explanatory? Still kinda lost on this part.

Thanks

[nb forrest]

Mental or Physical?

Don't go there!!

[nb forrest]

Well I do know that I am not accurate enough with the XDSC, this I am sure of. I just sold my Kimber so I am in the market for another pistol anyway. It was not an option as it only held 7+1.

I did shoot a buddy's RIA 1911 that held maybe 17+1 in 9mm and it was surprisingly a great gun, I had never heard of it. Shot very tight groupings and hit where you aimed it. I would not be opposed to that. BUT, I am partial to the XD and XDms.

I had a RIA single stack for a while and it seemed to be a very good gun for the price.

The new XDm 5.25 is a very nice looking gun that would be perfect for 3 gun, if I wasn't hooked on Glocks I would seriously consider one myself.

[Mike]

1st get the carry stuff out of your head.

I would suggest you run as much of your daily carry gear as you can. I wish I could run my carry holster at matches. Unfortunately Rules haven't caught up with the times yet.

Well I do know that I am not accurate enough with the XDSC, this I am sure of. I just sold my Kimber so I am in the market for another pistol anyway. It was not an option as it only held 7+1.

I did shoot a buddy's RIA 1911 that held maybe 17+1 in 9mm and it was surprisingly a great gun, I had never heard of it. Shot very tight groupings and hit where you aimed it. I would not be opposed to that. BUT, I am partial to the XD and XDms.

I am going to go to Range USA this weekend and shoot some of the guns on my list to see which one I like the most.

I'm going to work on the pistol first then move to a shotgun. I may have a line on a buddy's Beretta semi shotgun, waiting on that to play out.

And if and when I go, what do I do exactly? I would be going to MSSA as its closest to me. Do I go and watch a few matches to get an understanding of the flow of the process? Is it self explanatory? Still kinda lost on this part.

Thanks

A case of ammunition is going to do you a lot more good than another pistol. Get rid of your 20MOA flinch and your accuracy will improve.

Mike

[deerslayer]

Most people who go to "check out" an IDPA match wish they had gone ahead and shot after watching one or two stages. A three gun match is a little more complicated--you may want to come watch some of the February match first.

[Jonnin]

Haha I am the other way around. I find IDPA much more complicated (kill the targets in this order, reload before you run out of ammo, stand here, run there, don't be left handed, ...) than 3-gun (grab your rifle and the 10 guys 30 yards back and uses your pistol on these 5 up close, in whatever order you like reloading if you run dry and moving as you see fit).

The left handed thing is a joke but first time I went a guy was trying to help me / guide me thru the courses and he kept trying to force me to be right handed.

The other shooters will help you. Some of them, you will not be able to STOP them from helping you. Some of them will try to encourage you to spend $$$$$ on toys. Some of them will be practical. But they are all trying to help so just take it with a grain of salt if someone says "you really need one of THESE". You may actually want the whatever it is, or not, but run a few matches before you spend any serious money.

That RIA 1911 9mm is an excellent gun at an excellent price. Its on my short list. Some divisions may not allow 18 round guns, I shoot open so those rules do not matter to me.

[RWF]

Mental or Physical?

both, and unfortunatly, there is no BS there. nb forrest knows about most of it.

Edited January 24, 2012 by RWF

[RWF]

I would suggest you run as much of your daily carry gear as you can. I wish I could run my carry holster at matches. Unfortunately Rules haven't caught up with the times yet.

Mike

? i thought this was a about 3 gun? A smaller gun with a mag ext? gear meant for conceled carry with a belt full of shotgun shell holders, rifle mag holster and extra pistol mags?

is that you a talking about? there no rules against it but have never seen any one myself use it.

[Mike]

There are rules against using an appendix holster. Supposedly due to "safety" issues.

I still stand by my using carry gear whenever possible. I've run matches with shot shells stuffed in my jacket pocket and a rifle mag in my back pocket. You don't need a bunch of gear to play. Every time you guys have seen me run a rifle at a match it's been the same rifle I carry daily in my truck.

Then again this is coming from a guy that mixes dummy rounds into his mags to liven things up...

Mike

Edited January 24, 2012 by Mike

[RWF]

well i learn some new all the time. what kind of 3 gun matches will not let you us your carry holster? club, uspsa, wildcat? now if it is a small of back or cross draw, i can understand.

[Jonnin]

well i learn some new all the time. what kind of 3 gun matches will not let you us your carry holster? club, uspsa, wildcat? now if it is a small of back or cross draw, i can understand.

No pocket holster, no cross draw, couple of other things are deemed "unsafe" I forget what all. IDPA even regulates what type of belt you use, 3 gun is less restrictive but still has safety concerns with some rigs.

[RWF]

agree, but never knew IDPA had a belt rule. and been doing that for 12 or more yearsbelt. the gap between the holster and belt yes, never even heard anything said to anyone about a non legal belt. like i ask what kind of 3 gun match says you can not use a carry holser like IWB, belt slide etc.

[Jonnin]

from one of the rulebooks, though there are a couple of different ones floating around the web:

D. Belts.

Gun belts may be no wider than 1 ¾” or thicker than 5/16” and

must pass through the pant loops.

Im not sure any 3 gun match excludes the types you listed.

Edited January 24, 2012 by Jonnin