Tennessee Felon Gun Rights Case

[Stegall Law Firm]

From the Tennessee Court of Appeals, the ongoing case of the man who was given a full pardon from his felony convictions and restoration of firearm rights in Georgia. Does Tennessee have to recognize that? The petitioner is seeking a declaratory judgment that TCA 39-13-1307, which states that felons convicted of violent or drug offenses cannot purchase or possess firearms, does not apply to him.

The case was not decided on its merits. On appeal were motions to dismiss filed by the State seeking a dismissal on jurisdictional grounds and/or on failure to state a claim upon which relief could be granted. The appeals court found that the trial court did have jurisdiction and that there were grounds upon which relief could be granted. So the petitioner wins and the case goes back to the trial court, but the appeals court pretty much came out and said that he would not win on the merits. We shall see. There are all kinds of issues involving the full faith and credit clause, the second amendment, the equal protection clause, and other federal and state constitutional provisions.

http://www.tncourts.gov/sites/default/files/blackwelldavidopn.pdf

[macville]

This seems really like a clean cut case. Man get pardon and is no longer a felon. Law says that felons can not possess firearms. Man is not felon and therefore can possess a firearm.

No offense to you Mr. Stegall, or my father in law who is a lawyer, but lawyers make things far more complex than they should be just because they want job security. You look at what you could do 100 or 200 years ago without a lawyer and now you can hardly have any dealings with the government or another business without needing a lawyer.

[Oh Shoot]

This seems really like a clean cut case. Man get pardon and is no longer a felon. Law says that felons can not possess firearms. Man is not felon and therefore can possess a firearm....

Ah, but language in 39-17-1307 doesn't base its prohibition on whether you are "still" a felon, only if you ever "were" a felon. ("has been convicted"), with no exception mentioned for pardons.

On the other hand, TN does follow federal guidelines about felons being able to own blackpowder/antique type guns, at least according to AG opinion posted here some time ago.

- OS

Edited January 21, 2012 by OhShoot

[Guest bkelm18]

No offense to you Mr. Stegall, or my father in law who is a lawyer, but lawyers make things far more complex than they should be just because they want job security. You look at what you could do 100 or 200 years ago without a lawyer and now you can hardly have any dealings with the government or another business without needing a lawyer.

Lawyers don't make the laws. They only step in when you run afoul of one and in this day and age it's hard not to.

[RobertNashville]

This is a clear cut case unless you are a government bureaucrat looking for a reason to deny an HCP.

Pardon means just that...once granted it's the same as if the crime the person is pardoned for was never committed and stats are SUPPOSED to recognize such things as pardons and such when granted by another state.

[Oh Shoot]

This is a clear cut case unless you are a government bureaucrat looking for a reason to deny an HCP.

Pardon means just that...once granted it's the same as if the crime the person is pardoned for was never committed and stats are SUPPOSED to recognize such things as pardons and such when granted by another state.

Who sez? And who will enforce it if TN disagrees?

Patrick, would a federal court even accept it, unless it were a federal pardon? Or even then?

- OS

[Guest lostpass]

This is a clear cut case unless you are a government bureaucrat looking for a reason to deny an HCP.

Pardon means just that...once granted it's the same as if the crime the person is pardoned for was never committed and stats are SUPPOSED to recognize such things as pardons and such when granted by another state.

Which is a fine notion except when you disagree with it. What if another state allows gay marriage but some other state doesn't? Some states grant felons the right to vote once their sentence is served. Should that travel as well?

These are all interesting questions without really clear cut answers.

[Guest pfries]

Even lower courts are proxies of the supreme courts, according to the constitution all courts are supposed to recognize rulings from other courts, yet it all stays convoluted.

[RobertNashville]

Which is a fine notion except when you disagree with it. What if another state allows gay marriage but some other state doesn't? Some states grant felons the right to vote once their sentence is served. Should that travel as well?

These are all interesting questions without really clear cut answers.

Actually; some of them do have clear-cut answers and the issue of pardon's is one that should tracing its lineage to well before the U.S. ever existed.

[Guest NYCrulesU]

This seems really like a clean cut case. Man get pardon and is no longer a felon. Law says that felons can not possess firearms. Man is not felon and therefore can possess a firearm.

No offense to you Mr. Stegall, or my father in law who is a lawyer, but lawyers make things far more complex than they should be just because they want job security. You look at what you could do 100 or 200 years ago without a lawyer and now you can hardly have any dealings with the government or another business without needing a lawyer.

You sir, get a standing ovation!

[Guest NYCrulesU]

The man was pardoned and ALL...I repeat..ALL...Constitutional rights restored.

The end.

[Oh Shoot]

The man was pardoned and ALL...I repeat..ALL...Constitutional rights restored.

The end.

A statement, but not a cogent argument.

- Most states don't recognize a same sex marriage performed in NY.

- Some states don't recognize some states' carry permits.

- No state recognizes another state's hunting/fishing license.

- Some states don't recognize the tinted auto window standards of other states.

- TN doesn't recognize a felony pardon from GA.

So what's the justification for only one of these five being treated differently?

- OS

[Guest NYCrulesU]

A statement, but not a cogent argument.

- Most states don't recognize a same sex marriage performed in NY.

- Some states don't recognize some states' carry permits.

- No state recognizes another state's hunting/fishing license.

- Some states don't recognize the tinted auto window standards of other states.

- TN doesn't recognize a felony pardon from GA.

So what's the justification for only one of these five being treated differently?

- OS

Tn is CHOOSING not to recognize that this man is no longer considered a felon. He been pardoned and all of his rights ...civil and Constitutional...have been restored. The Constitution trumps state.

Tn, as most states, has laws against felons owning firearms. Those laws does not apply to this man. Easy enough for a 3rd grader to figure out.

In the end, we'll see how this plays out in court. I see it ending in favor for the NON felon.

[Oh Shoot]

Tn is CHOOSING not to recognize that this man is no longer considered a felon. He been pardoned and all of his rights ...civil and Constitutional...have been restored. The Constitution trumps state.

The US constitution? Where is this delineated there? He was pardoned by a state, not the president. It's a states rights issue, not federal jurisdiction.

Tn, as most states, has laws against felons owning firearms.

No, it doesn't. It has a law against anyone ever convicted of a felony owning firearms.

Easy enough for a 3rd grader to figure out.

Your cogency is not improving.

In the end, we'll see how this plays out in court. I see it ending in favor for the NON felon.

Betcha a beer it goes the other way in the court to which it was sent back. They'll say in essence if he wants to own firearms and/or get a permit, move back to Georgia.

- OS

[Guest NYCrulesU]

The US constitution? Where is this delineated there? He was pardoned by a state, not the president. It's a states rights issue, not federal jurisdiction.

No, it doesn't. It has a law against anyone ever convicted of a felony owning firearms.

Your cogency is not improving.

Betcha a beer it goes the other way in the court to which it was sent back. They'll say in essence if he wants to own firearms and/or get a permit, move back to Georgia.

- OS

You're on.

[Guest Patty]

This is how I see it, this person is a convicted felon, found guilty of something in the legal system that was illegal and wrong enough to become a felon. Somebody who could, did forgive him of that or gave him a pardon, which is a free pass. Was he a convicted felon, yes. Always will be. Should he have the same rights as me now. Thats really going to depend on how much money it takes, and can that money be provided. Is that how the system works?

[TMF]

Thats really going to depend on how much money it takes, and can that money be provided. Is that how the system works?

Yes.

[macville]

Lawyers don't make the laws. They only step in when you run afoul of one and in this day and age it's hard not to.

Oh yes they do. If you talk to your rep and senator, you will find that most laws are written by a lawyer or a lawyer helped greatly in writing the language. Also, consider how many lawyers are senators or reps and you'll see the lawyers are in direct control in writing laws.

The other thing that this all hinges on is, what does "pardon" really mean. I've always understood it to mean a forgiveness that's like it never happened--never guilty. Where as commute meant you were still guilty, but the punishment was stopped. So if it was a pardon, then it should be like the guy was never a felon because the guilty verdict was taken away.

[Guest Skeeter]

Ah, but language in 39-17-1307 doesn't base its prohibition on whether you are "still" a felon, only if you ever "were" a felon. ("has been convicted"), with no exception mentioned for pardons.

On the other hand, TN does follow federal guidelines about felons being able to own blackpowder/antique type guns, at least according to AG opinion posted here some time ago.

39

- OS

Taken from pdf ruling bottom of page three

http://www.tncourts.gov/sites/defaul...lldavidopn.pdf

.

39-11-106(11) defines a firearm as "any weapon designed,made or adapted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or any device readily convertible to that use."

The AG could change his opinion Mid Stream if he ( or any other Politician ) feels like it.

* what advantage News Attention ( Votes ) could this Get me.

.

[Pain103]

I wouldn't be surprised if it goes either way.

[DaveTN]

Tn is CHOOSING not to recognize that this man is no longer considered a felon. He been pardoned and all of his rights ...civil and Constitutional...have been restored. The Constitution trumps state.

Tn, as most states, has laws against felons owning firearms. Those laws does not apply to this man. Easy enough for a 3rd grader to figure out.

In the end, we'll see how this plays out in court. I see it ending in favor for the NON felon.

States’ Rights trump the 2^nd amendment. The SCOTUS has decided that recently…. Twice.

States can make whatever guns laws they want, within reason. This case will have to go through the courts to determine if they feel it is reasonable.

I hope you are right that this guy will win. If you are pardoned or a court expunges your charges; you should be able to own guns.

However, in this time of the other side wanting tougher back-ground check laws I can’t really see getting a ruling that puts a gun in the hand of a convicted felon.

Getting a pardon does not seal your record or wave a magic wand making you no longer a convicted felon. A pardon becomes part of your criminal record. You are still a convicted felon and the charges are still there for people to see, so is the pardon.

[Guest don_m]

DaveTN has it pretty much right. He hasn't been declared "innocent" and is still a convicted felon. An expungement would take it off his record, but once you're convicted in Georgia you won't get one. A Georgia pardon doesn't restore firearm rights unless it specifically says so. There's a pretty good explanation at http://www.pardon411.com/wiki/Georgia_Pardon_Information.