When you overhear bad advice?

[Lumber_Jack]

So I was in a gun store the other day. This is a nice shop that has decent prices.

So I'm browsing and overhear a customer inquiring about a pocket gun. Looking specifically at the Khar 380. He states he's never heard of Khar to which the worker replies "some like them some don't." I'm fine with all that, but goes on to explain that the trigger is awful in the Khar and LCP and he would never carry one. He said the only one he would carry would be the Sig 238 but it was too heavy to carry.

Now, I've had good success with my LCP, and yes the trigger is heavy but it works perfectly well for close range self defense. I understand very one is entitled to their opinion, but why not just present the pros and cons and let the buyer decide. His tone and body language was such that the Khar was junk. You could tell it turned the buyer off quickly. U wanted to speak up and say that I loved my LCP and had it currently in my pocket, but decided that it was his store and he can run it as he wishes.

It got my blood boiling a little that the buyer would probably leave and never give the small pistols a fair chance, when he came in with a true interest.

So that brings up the question. When you hear what you consider bad advice (or one sided at least) do you join the conversation or walk off? I could have easily walked up and said "ohh I love these little things" but again felt the store can sell guns as they see fit.

Sent from my Mom's basement

[Caster]

I make a conscious effort to never start giving opinions. I don't ever wanna be "That Guy". But I will, in such a case as you present, speak up from time to time. I keep my comments limited to facts concerning my own personal experience and leave out any biased conjecture. I've never had an LCP, but had I been in your position, having had success with the LCP, I would have turned and told the guy, "I've never had a minutes trouble out of mine and happen to like it very much"

More than once I have done that and the buyer continue to ask me questions. Sometimes they don't. When they don't I mosey on off looking at something else giving the impression I could care less if they were listening or not. I don't wanna be the know it all because the gun shop guys wanna THINK they know it all. Offend them and you'll never get decent service out of them.

[daddyo]

Consider the fact that the customer doesn't know you from Adam and you start giving unsolicited advice. What do most people do in that situation? Are they going to see you as an authority over the gun store guy? Probably not. Anyway, why does it matter?

IF I were going to offer my opinion, it would be out of earshot of the gun shop employee, and then it would only be in the form of choosing an effective self defense round.

[Murgatroy]

It may be wrong, but I often attempt to interject myself into the conversation when I hear comments that are off base.

I am not an expert on firearms by any means, especially compared to some on this site. However I own quite a few, and I study up on them frequently. I spend a fair amount of time shooting and I am always eager to try something new.

At work I have garnered the reputation of "the gun guy." Whenever someone at work is interested in a gun, or an opinion on a gun they come to me. I try to be as informative and unbiased as possible. I have taken several co-workers to shoot, and have helped a few more buy their first guns and given tips as they take the HCP class. There are no less than six folks in my office that have HCPs.

I am often at a gun counter and I will overhear either a counter jockey or a customer giving advice. Most of the time it is simple stuff that is close enough to honest that I don't pay any attention. Sometimes it is complete bull hockey and I can't help but to interject. "No, a Glock 19 isn't too big to conceal, as a matter of fact I have one on right now." Other times I just have to walk away shaking my head because someone is beyond help. Like the guy who wants to buy a Taurus Raging Bull in .454 Casull for EDC.

Most of the time I will find an easy in on the conversation, such as commenting upon the recoil or such of a certain caliber, and just join the conversation casually and offer a different point of view. Often I will be at a store with a friend explaining a few of the details of guns and a customer who is being ignored by the counter jockey will ask me the questions they have. I try to be as honest as possible, and if they ask me something I don't know, I tell them I don't know, but I also tell them where to look.

With the advent of smart phones this becomes even easier, as it is possible to pull information up from the manufacturers website and give the facts that they might want to know as well.

I understand it is not my job, and some folks might find it pushy to do that, but I have seen too many folks pushed into buying what the counter jockey wants to sell them, as opposed to what they honestly want to buy.

Of all the counter jockeys I can think of in town, there is one that I really like, Steve, who works for Academy now, he used to be at Gander Mountain and Dicks before that. He is a good guy, will listen to what you want and offer up options and experience to help your decision.

And I will also admit that sometimes my advice is biased. More of my coworkers have bought Glocks than any other gun.

[shaftbass]

I saw a salesman at Best Buy selling a guy Monster HDMI cables the other day. 4' cable for $50. The guy was buying the BS hook, line, and sinker. I almost waited until he was away from the salesman to tell him that you can get a 4' HDMI cable of the same quality at http://www.monoprice.com or from Amazon, or any number of sites for about $2. But I decided that the world needs these kinds of people to make it go around. If you don't do your own research, you get screwed no matter what you're doing.

[Guest gunnutt]

advice not asked for is usually not taken!!!

john

[Murgatroy]

advice not asked for is usually not taken!!!

john

I think the OP was asking about the guy that is asking for advice, but is being fed bad advice.

I don't think this is about the guy not talking to anyone that is looking at a gun in the case and someone walking up to him and saying "XXX is better, and has a better trigger pull."

It is about the guy holding the LCP and asking "What is the trigger pull like on this thing?" If the counter jockey answers "Short and super light," are you telling me that just walking away is the honest thing to do?

[Lumber_Jack]

Just FYI, I don't care personally if the guy buys the gun or not, I just thought he was getting an opinion instead of pros/cons advice.

PS. The counter jockey (as murg referred) mention the Taurus Judge and that made me shake my head.

Sent from my Mom's basement

[LagerHead]

To me that doesn't really sound like bad advice. Just a differing opinion. In that case I'd just let it slide. Now if he started in with the "all you have to do is pump a shotgun and a criminal in your house will jump out the window while pooping his pants and screaming like a girl" junk, I would speak up. That's not just bad advice, but dangerous. Short of that, let him spout his stuff.

[Erik88]

It's up to the buyer to educate themselves about a product before the purchase. But I agree that it is frustrating to hear bad advice.

[Lumber_Jack]

To me that doesn't really sound like bad advice. Just a differing opinion. In that case I'd just let it slide. Now if he started in with the "all you have to do is pump a shotgun and a criminal in your house will jump out the window while pooping his pants and screaming like a girl" junk, I would speak up. That's not just bad advice, but dangerous. Short of that, let him spout his stuff.

Agreed, I would change the thread title if I could.

I think he could have sold a gun if he would have been less staunch on his opinion.

Sent from my Mom's basement

[Guest Spurhunter]

While offering a personal opinion to the prospective buyer of a small pistol is fine in my opinion,

this is where I draw the line. I am all for getting a deal when I have time to search out those purchases on-line, but we NEED brick and mortar stores of all types locally. If you have ever been in need of a part to get your computer running on a Sunday night, you are VERY glad to overpay for said part, they need those profits to stay open, and I try to never affect that if possible. Let the uneducated pay more than their share, so we can pay less at times.

I saw a salesman at Best Buy selling a guy Monster HDMI cables the other day. 4' cable for $50. The guy was buying the BS hook, line, and sinker. I almost waited until he was away from the salesman to tell him that you can get a 4' HDMI cable of the same quality at HDMI Cable, Home Theater Accessories, HDMI Products, Cables, Adapters, Video/Audio Switch, Networking, USB, Firewire, Printer Toner, and more! or from Amazon, or any number of sites for about $2. But I decided that the world needs these kinds of people to make it go around. If you don't do your own research, you get screwed no matter what you're doing.

[JReedEsq]

I was in a gun store a while back and heard a this bit of wisdom: "they call it a 9 because you have to shoot 9 times... If someone gets hit with a .45 on any part of their body they go down immediately and down get back up..." I'm not trying to start a caliber thread but this was a little out there. It was the customer's statement by the way. The gun shop guy just said ".45 is a great caliber" and proceeded to show him some pistols. Fair enough.

[daddyo]

I was in a gun store a while back and heard a this bit of wisdom: "they call it a 9 because you have to shoot 9 times... If someone gets hit with a .45 on any part of their body they go down immediately and down get back up..." I'm not trying to start a caliber thread but this was a little out there. It was the customer's statement by the way. The gun shop guy just said ".45 is a great caliber" and proceeded to show him some pistols. Fair enough.

I wouldn't be able to offer any advice after that pearl, because I would be laughing too hard.

[kb4ns]

I was in a gun store a while back and heard a this bit of wisdom: "they call it a 9 because you have to shoot 9 times... If someone gets hit with a .45 on any part of their body they go down immediately and down get back up..." I'm not trying to start a caliber thread but this was a little out there. It was the customer's statement by the way. The gun shop guy just said ".45 is a great caliber" and proceeded to show him some pistols. Fair enough.

That's smart customer service. I doubt the customer would have entertained a purchase if the clerk had looked at him and said "Dang, you are some kind of retarded" as I would have done.

[shaftbass]

I was in a gun store a while back and heard a this bit of wisdom: "they call it a 9 because you have to shoot 9 times... If someone gets hit with a .45 on any part of their body they go down immediately and down get back up..." I'm not trying to start a caliber thread but this was a little out there. It was the customer's statement by the way. The gun shop guy just said ".45 is a great caliber" and proceeded to show him some pistols. Fair enough.

I'd pay to be able to spectate that exchange.

[Guest FiddleDog]

I don't think that I would interject unless asked, but it would definitely influence my decision to keep patronizing that particular establishment...or at the very least request service from a different representative (as in refuse service from that particular employee).

[TMF]

No, I wouldn't say anything. It kinda steps on toes since it's their business to run as they see fit even if that means dispensing opinions that aren't accurate.

With that said, sometimes I think I should go back into customer service just so I could right the wrongs I see every day. The guy behind the counter is shooting himself in the foot by badmouthing products that he's selling. His goal should be to SELL, not turn the customer off, or offer an overbearing opinion which is making the decision for the customer. He simply should be energetic about selling ANY firearm to a potential buyer, and lead with the PROS of the purchase and advise cons only based on what the customer is looking for so that he can pair the best pistol suited for the customer's needs so that when the customer walks out the door he is HAPPY. Happy customers means repeat business and referrals. The seller should be looking for information from the buyer more than the buyer is looking for information from the seller.... such as: what is your budget?...what will be the primary function of your purchase (range/home defense/carry/looking tacticool)?... do you have a particular caliber in mind?... Ughhhhh....

I've had this experience first hand before which is why I don't promote those gun shops. The ones that I have a good experience at I will promote, like Guns & Leather. They are still in business while some of the gun stores that don't know how to handle customers aren't anymore.

[enfield]

If the jerk isn't giving the customer dangerous advice, I just walk away.

[Guest NYCrulesU]

If it doesn't directly affect me, or isn't life threatening, I mind my business. No one made me an expert, no one pays for my advice and no one asked for my opinion.

At one time there were 3 shops I frequented. One went out of business but had the best customer service. One has the best prices and will order you anything but has an old, grumpy jerk of an owner and lone employee. He's from Jersey...but so am I so I enjoy his attitude from time to time as a reminder of why I left NJ. The third is the most popular, busiest and the most over priced. There is one employee there that I simply refuse to deal with and will not let him wait on me..and I make it obvious. He's a complete moron. He jittery. Hands shake when handling guns, gives ridiculously wrong information, makes stuff up. Once, while buying a G19 he refused to let me fill out my own background check paperwork...something I prefer to make sure my info is all correct...DL #, SS #, address ect. Mind you, I have NEVER been denied a gun. Cletus fills out the paperwork...hands shaking...talking nervously rhe whole time ...scratching out his errors and scribbling over them....looked like my 3 yr old art work. Sure enough when the girl up front runs it...DENIED. Had to wait two days and come back and try again....and they charged me for both background checks.

Suffice to say...I made it clear that he'd wouldn't wait on me again. I go there because, while overpriced, they have the best gunsmith around and a range right there...some convenience.

Other than all that...I go to a shop...conduct my business and keep my mouth shut.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I try not to interfere in such cases. As was said, unsolicited advice is often not taken or it is even resented.

At wallyworld was in the vitamin aisle and two nice little old ladies were talking amongst themselves trying to figure out what pill to buy that might help arthritis. From their conversation it sounded like they had no clue. Dunno if it was welcome or wise, but I offered them brief advice based on what little I've gleaned from too many hours reading that topic. Stuff like "I am not an expert, but unbiased research I've read so far hasn't seen miraculous results from any of them" and "this pill is perhaps a little more likely to help" and "if you take a blood thinner, ask your doctor before you take that one." Maybe they thought I was a rude jerk interrupting their conversation and they were just trying to be polite. Maybe even if they actually appreciated the advice, it was unwise to give it, even predicated with the disclaimer of not being an expert.

Last year was requested to buy a MacBook for a PC programmer coworker who never had a mac before, set it up ready to compile, and ship it to him. Best Buy had about the same price as anyone else so I picked up the MacBook and the young BestBuy salesman was doing his schtick trying to upsell me on several "essential programs" that my mac-hating friend was sure to need.

It was probably a waste of oxygen, but as we were already in the software aisle I took the liberty of suggesting to him some alternate packages on their shelf that might be of more use to new mac customers, compared to the ones he was hawking. It is difficult to know if the advice did him or any future customers any good, because of course a good salesman knows to agree with any fool thing a customer might say, as long as the customer is buying. The salesman probably just thought I was an arrogant and ignorant old fool. Which he was probably correct in thinking.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Guest gunnutt]

I think the OP was asking about the guy that is asking for advice, but is being fed bad advice.

I don't think this is about the guy not talking to anyone that is looking at a gun in the case and someone walking up to him and saying "XXX is better, and has a better trigger pull."

It is about the guy holding the LCP and asking "What is the trigger pull like on this thing?" If the counter jockey answers "Short and super light," are you telling me that just walking away is the honest thing to do?

yes because he didnt ask me.

[Will Carry]

This is an excellent post! I know exactly what the OP is talking about. I guy at my shooting range was telling a customer,"We don't sell Ruger semi-autos or Springfield XDs because of all the problems they have with quality. We only sell quality firearms." I just about tripped over my jaw but I didn't say anything until the customer left. Then I had a talk with the sales rep. He tried to defend his statement that Ruger semi-autos and Springfield XDs would break all the time, but I ain't no pilgram................That saled repno longer works there.