read about the new so called piracy laws SOPA and PIPA that are being pushed current

[Guest 6.8 AR]

obviously something needs to be done to protect other peoples property.

And some of the justification for theft here simply blows me away. Really it is okay to take something because it is overpriced, or some corporation makes millions off of it?

How many around here are camping out with the OWS crowd?

Frigging incredible.

The obvious thing that needs to be done is to get the government out of the way and let people

protect their own damned private property and intellectual property. The government only wants

own everything and control you and I. That's what governments aspire to. All governments, if left

unchecked, only exist to control. That's why the US Constitution was written: to protect individual

rights and freedom in many ways.

If we keep thinking "this sounds so good" and keep letting our congress and President take it away,

who's fault is it when it is gone and we are nothing but slaves? It's our fault if we don't destroy the

virus plaguing our country. It will come down to the literal meaning of the 2nd Amendment if this

sickness doesn't get fixed very soon.

[Garufa]

Apparently the government already has the power to shutdown websites that distribute copyrighted material....

Megaupload site wants assets back, to fight charges - Yahoo! News

[kieefer]

I wonder if our so-called leaders in government are having these same disagreements?

Probably not.

[Mike.357]

I never said the gov't needs to be involved. My comments pretty much were about people justifying what they do, even though it is wrong.

I don't know what the answer is as far as protecting the things that Mikey and Crimson are riled up about. But what is currently happening is not right. People are losing out on income they have earned so others can skate by for free.

[Oh Shoot]

Btw, in case anybody missed the one note a couple pages back, Senate has put the bill on hold. Not dead but going back committee for "compromises" according to Dirty Harry.

Congress Puts SOPA, PIPA on Hold | PCWorld

SOPA, PIPA votes to be delayed in House and Senate - 2chambers - The Washington Post

- OS

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Compromises, bah humbug! The only good internet law is a dead internet law!

[mav]

Btw, in case anybody missed the one note a couple pages back, Senate has put the bill on hold. Not dead but going back committee for "compromises" according to Dirty Harry.

Congress Puts SOPA, PIPA on Hold | PCWorld

SOPA, PIPA votes to be delayed in House and Senate - 2chambers - The Washington Post

- OS

That's all fine and good, but if it is like anything else the government works on, the compromise will more than likely be worse than the original. The only people who will end up happy about it will be the government. They will be patting themselves on the back and having a stroke-fest all the while telling everyone what a wonderful thing they have done, and it was a true example of bipartisanship in action.

Excuse me while I go vomit.

[Garufa]

The compromise will likely be tied to building a pipeline, extending tax cuts, paying people not to work, or some other totally unrelated thing.

[Oh Shoot]

The compromise will likely be tied to building a pipeline, extending tax cuts, paying people not to work, or some other totally unrelated thing.

Yeah, that's how we got carry in N'tl Parks, tied to credit card reform bill. Even that that one benefited us, it's still a totally frigged up corrupt way to legislate.

- OS

[TMF]

Been done. Not workin'.

Well there are laws against shooting folks, but people still do that so I guess those laws ain't workin' either.

Maybe the next time someone uses a firearm in a crime the Government should step in and shut down the manufacturer of the weapon, or close down the store that originally sold it.

[Steelharp]

Maybe the next time someone uses a firearm in a crime the Government should step in and shut down the manufacturer of the weapon, or close down the store that originally sold it.

Poor analogy. Makes no sense. That line of reasoning, in the music copyright sense, would shut down the performers/labels. Great example of the "apples-oranges" concept offered earlier, however.

[TMF]

Poor analogy. Makes no sense. That line of reasoning, in the music copyright sense, would shut down the performers/labels. Great example of the "apples-oranges" concept offered earlier, however.

I don't think it's a poor analogy at all, as I read it the Government will be able to shut down sites where OTHERS are conducting illegal activity. So to shut down a gun manufacturer for the crimes of someone that uses their product for illegal purposes is a pretty good analogy, and I was using it to illustrate the point that we get so wrapped up in gun rights, but we're so quick to shirk other rights for the "common good".

A more relevant analogy would be this: I have a buddy who is a professional photographer down in Nashville. He's done some work for Barrett, and I assume it was based on a portfolio of his that was full of gun porn. So, let's say that my buddy comes to this site to show off some of his work to see what people think before he adds it to his portfolio. Now, I come on to this site and see the photos. I'm looking to start an internet gun wholesaler site, and I happen to like his photos so I zapgrab them here and feature those photos on my website. Obviously I would be doing something illegal and my site could/should be shut down for it, but as I understand this bill TGO could be shut down since people are using the site to illegally download copyright.

That doesn't make any sense. The website shouldn't be responsible for the illegal actions of others. I get that piracy is a big problem, but that doesn't mean that we give the Government liberty to control the internet at will to prevent it. They should be seeking better ways to prosecute those that break the law instead.

Blaming the internet for rampant piracy is like blaming PBR for drunk drivers. That analogy works. People still have a choice whether to break the law or not.

[Steelharp]

Better explanation. Point well made; I can smell where your head's been...

[Guest mikedwood]

SOPA or PIPA would just turn the Internet into a corporate net, it's an insane piece of legislation. I can't imagine anyone would want it except those that will use it to control.

[Steelharp]

Crazy; the Musician's Union was in huge support of it, and this morning I get an AFM e-mail singing the praises of holding off. I don't think ANYone knows...

[Guest Lester Weevils]

SOPA or PIPA would just turn the Internet into a corporate net, it's an insane piece of legislation. I can't imagine anyone would want it except those that will use it to control.

That is a 21 minute video, but any folks who actually think the ideas in SOPA and PIPA are good, really would be nice if ya'll would listen to it. The fellow explains the issues very well.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Crazy; the Musician's Union was in huge support of it, and this morning I get an AFM e-mail singing the praises of holding off. I don't think ANYone knows...

Local 80 I belong to, I don't pay that much attention except reading the short newsletters. Local 80 has basically devolved into not much more than a symphony musicians union. Not being critical. That just seems the only musicians in this area that take the slightest interest in Local 80.

I only gig maybe 5 or 10 times a year max since quitting full-time playing around 1998. Mainly still pay dues cause it is a long habit, annual dues ain't that much, and some of my group insurance seems dependent on membership.

You are in local 257? More recording biz, more work dues from exploiting session players. Major label sessions still have to be a big item on the local 257 balance sheet.

Local 80 area has plenty of studios but I don't keep up with it anymore. Not near as many as Nashville.

Frankly I never saw ANY personal benefit from Local 80, and only paid the payola to keep em off my back. They are nice enough folks and all that. I don't dislike em. Seems like every thing they would do to try to "help" musicians was either ineffective or counterproductive.

As far as I know nearly all the local 80 musicians would go out of their way to record without submitting a contract and paying dues. The only "union benefit" if you can call it that, was having to keep recording activity a state secret so the union wouldn't be demanding more dues.

This SOPA/PIPA will ONLY be beneficial to big fish. But that's where locals in Nashville, Austin, NYC and LA get lots of spending cash to send to Obama. I gay-run-dam-tee ya the SOPA/PIPA will be detrimental to small fish struggling and slightly larger smallfry making a middle-class income hawking independent music, playing clubs, doing spot gigs.

Since the smallfry outnumber the big fish when you add up all the podunk locals, not just recording centers, if the smallfry were non-apathetic they would make some changes in the union if it supports SOPA/PIPA. But most smallfry are like me. They just pay the payola and ignore the union as best possible.

edit: Alleged that SOPA/PIPA will ONLY be beneficial to big fish, but I don't believe it would even be long-term beneficial to big fish. However, assuming that in some fantasy land alternate universe running on different laws of physics, that this bassackwards idea would work, then big fish are the only ones who would benefit.

Edited January 21, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[Guest 1817ak47]

this is what I did years ago to protect my how to pics so someone else couldn't take credit

[Guest jackdm3]

My wife’s in the Memphis library system. I’m only on page two of this discussion, but when I read Garoof’s post #22 about Xeroxing published material, I asked her if libraries are being notified to deal with it considering the new bills. She said:

“We don’t have the $ to monitor your behavior, just as no one at Kinko’s watches what you copy.

When we sell a very used book, we keep the money. THAT’S a violation because the publisher’s not getting a cut from the second sale. I said you don’t have to pay the dealership for selling your used car or a record label for selling your used CD to a store that will resell it and not pay the label again. She said that’s a violation “in theory”.

“Fair use” is hard to define.

The record industry will have to do what all other industries do, like when dead technology becomes dead; reinvent your methods of innovation or suffer.”

I’m not so sure about that last part, but back to my reading on this here civil discussion. Remember, I’m only on post #22 and there are 8 more pages to read!

[Guest jackdm3]

Yep. Turned out as expected.

[G27]

When we sell a very used book, we keep the money. THAT’S a violation because the publisher’s not getting a cut from the second sale. I said you don’t have to pay the dealership for selling your used car or a record label for selling your used CD to a store that will resell it and not pay the label again. She said that’s a violation “in theory”.

Nope, she's wrong - google 'first-sale doctrine'.

[Guest jackdm3]

Nope, she's wrong - google 'first-sale doctrine'.

That's the way I see it applying to cars and CD's. We all know this. She elaborated by writing this, since I can't expound on her knowledge: "Libraries have right of first sale, which "in theory" negates copyright laws. It's a legal loophole just like fair use. A prime example of fair use is the following video:"

(Some of you have seen this one many times over. Tone Loc used a snippet of Van Halen's "Jamie's Cryin" to record "Wild Thing" and didn't have to pay them. The very nature of this video was to illustrate that there are allowances of copying in a minute scale as long as it's for educational purposes and not for profit and supposedly this video doesn't violate when played on any forums.)

She got a Master's in library sciences (very proud of her!) and they forced this issue, at least as far as libraries go, until she was totally clear on ownership. Her last job was at Smith and Nephew as one of only two librarians for the company for the entire world. Two people! To control the intellectual property and dissemination of all materials purchased for their research, the engineers coming in to review texts couldn't leave the room with the info. Occasionally, a lab tech said they just wanted to copy three pages. You'd have thought they were going to seal the building and send the guys with the shotguns, pointed at the unlucky bastard that suggested it.

Now she's out of corporate and in the public realm. I can't go into the intricacies of how she described it, but the freedom of the written word, as dictated by her current superiors, is being trumpeted without concern. I just now asked her how the mentality of securing property in the for-profit world segues into the public sector of zero concern. "We just don't think about it. We can't control it, so we don't try." I asked how she'd protect music. "Watermark, maybe? Track the transfer of every peer-to-peer file sharing regardless of content and become the World Police?!"

(There was a lot discussed that I've omitted, but she kept running on and on about law and the differences between trademark and copyright, and frankly that crap makes my head hurt.)

Edited January 22, 2012 by jackdm3

[M4sherman]

at one time pirates had a code of honor, check the **** out and if it was good buy it (if the cd was good go out and buy a copy, crappy movie delete it and forget about it. I will admit I have pirated a few movies (the walking dead, LOTR) but as soon as they were found on a store shelf I paid the money to help support the business so that the next great movies,game,ect would be able to be made. as for software my general rule was only download if it was unavailable for purchase or was extremely dated. I had pirated the original fallout games in 08 (I now own a physical copy) when they were impossible to find and when I was doing textures as a hobby I refused to use any of the newest two versions as I did not pay for the right to use a top of the line piece ,If I was doing anything more than a hobby I would have purchased as that is the only way to keep the company in business.

Music was always off limits as I would just check out a few songs on you tube and if they were good I would put down my monies or steal the CD from my sister

Now these pirates now a days are to short sighted for their own good as they only see the short term saving and not the long term damage. think about it this way if adobe does now make a heavy profit on Photoshop how the hell can they afford to build a newer, better more innovative system, what would have happened if every body just watched a pirated version of transformers, do you think they would have made sequels?

Hell Stealing is stealing and all your doing is hurting the industry in the long run....if you want everything for free go hop in bed with the Commies and you will see the meaning of "free"