Rifle for protection

[molonlabetn]

I went through a few ARs and an AK before realizing that my Marlin 1894 lever action (.357mag) would probably be all I would need in terms of a survival long-gun... and it wouldn't draw as much attention.

The 'combat/tactical' handguns and shotguns are for fun, carry and for HD/bugging-in.

[K191145]

It is hard to have too much armament. But, I am a bicycle junkie, and I own 7 working bicycles- that isn't too many, yet, as far as I can tell!! Grain of salt time.

I think a 30 rd magazine is great for home defense/property defense. You can miss a few times and still have enough left to take care of business. With multiple bad guys in a Katrina/looting scenario, more is better. Get a few extra mags, keep them loaded, and you can shoot a lot of zombies.

I live close to Orange Mound/Whitehaven in Memphis, which are both tough, armed 'hoods. I consider it my duty as head of the household to think of this stuff- in a Katrina-type situation, lawlessness/looting might come my way after a few days.

You can get 2 decent AK's for roughly the price of 1 decent AR. I like them both, I own them both. In a Katrina-like situation, I hope I have access to both platforms.

My wife loves the AR due to the lack of recoil. She's kinda bony (I like 'em that way) and I think a weapon with a lot more recoil would be much more difficult for her to fire, or at least, to enjoy firing. When the zombies come, I want her to enjoy firing it.

I like shooting Ar's, I hate cleaning them-- lotsa nooks and crannies. The .223 won't penetrate as well as a 7.62X39 - if you are shooting at cars that can make a big difference.

Cancel cable, buy a smaller car, eat out less often, get a thermos instead of Starbuck's-- then you can buy more guns and more ammo more often.

I have a MAK-90 for a protection scenerio, also fun shooting. I keep one loaded mag close and 5 others loaded stowed away for the range. I haven't shot it in 6 months and there's always that question of keeping mags loaded for long periods that may cause weakening of the spring. I have heard both arguments, just wondering what others think about that. I guess I'll find out the next time I take it out to shoot.

[Guest atomemphis]

This question screams AK to me, and my reasons are the reasons the 'bad guys' choose AK's.

They work. No fuss, no muss, neglect the hell out of them all you want. And it still works.

Not a fan of the wooden furniture? Tapco.

Not a fan of the factory sights? You can change those too.

The great part about the AK, like AR, is that they have been around quite awhile and thus an "aftermarket" has developed.

And for $500, you can get a really good AK.

[nightrunner]

does anybody have a good forum for AKs? dangit y'all got me curious to learn about them now.

[poak]

I think the AR has a lot of value in this situation as in a true "poo hits the fan" situation, a big consideration is the availability of ammo. In all likeliness, 5.56 will be very easy to aquire. People like to call the 5.56 a "whimpy" round, or talk down it's stopping power, but in actuality, It doesnt matter if you're shooing .50 BMG if you cant hit what you're aiming at, you know?

[Guest atomemphis]

Curiously, the AR 15 forum (often referred to as arfcom) has lots for the AK user as well.

[Moped]

I agree with most everything that's been said here. The SKS makes the most sense in my opinion though. You can get a SKS for around $200. That leaves plenty of money to purchase two or three tins of 7.62x39 to put away and another one to shoot. Plus there are all kinds of accessories you can add on to them.

Another rifle I'll throw out there is the Little KELTEC SU-16C. It's a pretty neat little .223 rifle that accepts AR mags at a little over half the cost.

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/su16c.html

For a cheap bolt gun, I might consider an Mosin Nagent. You can pick those up for around a $100. Yeah I know their old, but most of the ones being imported into the country seem to be very reliable and accurate. Ammo is cheap for them too. A lot of the M44s look to be in excellent condition. It's hard to beat the price on one.

I'd also consider a 30/30 lever gun. Ammo is plentiful and as someone else pointed out, they aren't very scary looking.

[The Rabbi]

On AKs, yes check ar15.com in their AK forum section.

I hadnt thought of the Kel Tec. That actually isnt a bad choice at all.

I am surprised lever guns havent received more support. I've got a Puma in .454Casull (capable of shooting .45LC too of course) that I think would make an excellent home defense type rifle. Very compact, reliable, excellent knock down power probably out to 150 yards, etc.

[Guest 2HOW]

The AK was designed for conscripts with very little education. Wide tolerances and virtually indestructible. The AR platform needs lots of TLC and cleaning. You can shoot 1000 rounds in a AK and not clean the thing and it wont know. I suggest the AK for many (ahem) new shooters.

[Urse]

Ah...welcome comrade. The SKS is a good choice for more rural and open "battlefields" because of it's slightly better range and general accuracy. The AK is the overall choice though. 100 million peasants can't be wrong. The Kalashnikov is gonna serve you well for anything 250 yards and in. Not to mention an AK + 75 round drum magazine = suppressive fire! You should always have a nice bolt gun when you really need to reach out and touch someone. Here is a list of relative forums:

www.theakforum.net

www.akfiles.com

www.ak-47.net

and for practical applications check

www.warriortalk.com

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

The only issue that you will have with AK's right now is quality. The current crop of available weapons may actually destroy the legend of reliability the AK has. Most of the current imports are thrown together with enough parts to meet the 922® without a thought to correct dimensioning, heat treating, etc not to mention screwing in barrels too tight/not enough.

If I were going for 7.62X39, I would probably go for an SKS. They are built with their original parts in them. Not thrown together with parts turned out at Joe Bob's machine shop measured with a tape measure or eyeballed from an underspec sample.

An AR is a very good platform to use, the "reliability concerns" on the AR are mostly internet/gunshop myth. As is the perfect reliability of AK's. To sum it up. If you can afford it, go for the AR, you will get more use out of it and enjoy it alot more. If not, go for the SKS and learn to use stripper clips. The 30 round conversions are iffy at best. China actually made a SKS designed to accept AK mags, they are kind of hard to come by now.

[Mark@Sea]

M1 Carbine.

.30 jacketed softpoints make dandy holes

Low weight, low recoil, very handy - makes a good INSIDE the house gun, too.

15 or 30 round magazines

FUN to shoot

As or more accurate than any SKS or AK made

Good to 150 yards, which is all the further you're gonna need to shoot

Wife loves hers

Available still through Civilian Marksmanship Program for under 500 for rack grades

[Urse]

The only issue that you will have with AK's right now is quality. The current crop of available weapons may actually destroy the legend of reliability the AK has. Most of the current imports are thrown together with enough parts to meet the 922® without a thought to correct dimensioning, heat treating, etc not to mention screwing in barrels too tight/not enough.

I am curious as to where you are getting your information on the current state of AK gunsmithing. Me-thinks perhaps you have history with a Century arms product? Before you give your opinion on something perhaps you should have a clue what you are talking about. AK barrels are press fitted not "screwed in to tight":rolleyes:

An AR is a very good platform to use, the "reliability concerns" on the AR are mostly internet/gunshop myth. As is the perfect reliability of AK's. To sum it up. If you can afford it, go for the AR, you will get more use out of it and enjoy it alot more. If not, go for the SKS and learn to use stripper clips. The 30 round conversions are iffy at best. China actually made a SKS designed to accept AK mags, they are kind of hard to come by now.

Ahhh okay you are an AR guy. That makes sense. Hey I like AR's they are in the top 5 as far as military rifles go. You could very well be perfectly happy with an AR as long as you run it wet. And you can afford the ammunition to feed it. The #1 rule should be the AK is not an AR so don't treat it like one. The OP asked what would be a good CDR(Civilian Defense Rifle) and most here correctly suggested the AK as the best overall option. That does not mean that the AR is not also a good option however there are just as many crap AR's out there as there are JimBob's Gunsmithing AK's. Educate yourself before making such a blanket statement.

[Guest atomemphis]

And I quote:

"Would John Wayne carry an AK-47 today? Yes he would, he was a very practical man"

[nightrunner]

and who said that?

[Moped]

M1 Carbine.

.30 jacketed softpoints make dandy holes

Low weight, low recoil, very handy - makes a good INSIDE the house gun, too.

15 or 30 round magazines

FUN to shoot

As or more accurate than any SKS or AK made

Good to 150 yards, which is all the further you're gonna need to shoot

Wife loves hers

Available still through Civilian Marksmanship Program for under 500 for rack grades

I like the M1 Carbine. It's a good design. If I were to go that route, I'd be real tempted to pick up a Ruger Blackhawk single action in .30 carbine as well. That way I'd only have to carry one type of ammo. Seems like the old AMT Company also made an semi-automatic pistol in .30. It might have been a Javalina. Sadly, my mind isn't all it should be after 44 years of living.

The one problem with a M1 though, is availablity of cheap ammo. 223 and 7.62x39 are half the cost of .30 carbine. I think currently commie ammo is much cheaper than anything else.

[Guest Fastzntn]

I like my M1 Carbine. It's fired more reliably than my XD

If you're really paranoid about society crumbling one day, and you having to defend your property/family/etc from infidels, I would suggest an accurate scoped rifle in 30.06 (Remington has some nice offerings that aren't crazy expensive) for distance, then if you don't pick off all of the people who want to kill you and pillage your home have the M1 Carbine handy with several 30 round mags for when they get within 100 yards.

Remington ammo works best in my Carbine, but for bulk practice stuff Georgia Arms makes some that's fine as well. The .30 Carbine ammo is expensive no matter what though........

[Guest canynracer]

get this from Rabbi...

http://tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6699

[Mark@Sea]

Is reloading a lost art?

I have maybe 4K tucked away for the carbines. Bought aguila while it was - not cheap, but less expensive - and the brass is good. A set of dies and a press pay for themselves PDQ. Cheap surplus isn't something I would depend on, it seems to be drying up and getting more expensive by the day.*

Another reason to invest in a carbine - it is a fantastic way to introduce younger shooters to centerfire. You may have problems prying it out of their hands at the end of the day, but the big grin is usually worth it.

I don't foresee any realistic scenario where I'd have to make a 200yd+ shot, but if it comes up, a Garand will do the trick handily. MUCH more accurate, and much harder hitting than an AK or SKS. Not saying the Garand is the ultimate battle rife - it was in WWII, less so today, but it gets the job done with a minimum of fuss and bother. I don't put spinners on my wheels, either, if that tells you anything. Is it my weapon of choice? If I had my choice I'd take a howitzer, thankyouverymuch. The Garand is probably more practical, though.

Don't want to hurt any feelings, I played with AK's and SKS's (of the two, the SKS is the better choice). If I'd went ahead and put the money where I should've in the first place, I would have saved a bundle. My stamped-metal, old tractor axle, fencepost stock days are, thankfully, past.

*Remember, at one point 30 carbine ammo and weapons were dirt cheap surplus.

Edited April 12, 2008 by Mark@Sea

[Mark@Sea]

Oh, and with a Garand, you're allowed to say "Clip".

[Guest c.a.s.]

Oh, and with a Garand, you're allowed to say "Clip".

Without having one thrown at your head.

[Urse]

If this was a "there can be only one" scenario then I would have to choose a FAL.

[Guest mc30707]

I have two AR's, an RRA entry tactical and a Stag model 2L. I also have 2 AK's, a WASR 10/63 and a TGI 75 sporter. All have performed flawlessly, I clean them after every trip to the range, but the ergonomics of the AR's is much better than the AK's.

[Guest atomemphis]

and who said that?

[ame]

[/ame]

The guy in the tie. Near the end o' the movie. Silly video. Around 7:10

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

Urse

I have never taken a barrel off an AK or put one on. Didn't realize they were pressed in, my mistake, and I could have sworn I saw threads on the last barrels I saw loose. Maybe those were retaining ridges for a better interference fit. I have however disassembled several AKs of various makes and models. Compared to the pre-'89 imports the current makes are alot of junk. Alot of their gas pistons are undersized/oversized and either drag enough to cause short stroking or are so undersized as to allow enough blowby to qualify as an AR DI action.

I am not an AR fan. I don't like them either. However based on the current status of the last 2 dozen AK's that I have looked at, I would not advise a new purchase of one. They are woefully inaccurate, hard to operate, firing pins break, bolt heads gall, fire control parts so soft they look like they flatten out like lead. I saw one that the gas piston was dragging so bad you almost couldn't get the bolt back. I think it was of Romanian parentage.

Now the old imports, Chinese, Yugos, etc that came in before the ban are sweet. They are built "correctly". With proper sized components and proper heat treating. Unfortunately they cost $1,300+.

You can get a great AK now but you will have to pay as much or more for it than a good AR. For most people the AR is going to be a better choice. It is significantly more accurate (nothing is more discouraging for a new shooter to not be able to hit anything) and signifcantly easier to use for the average Joe, (and potentially less painful if they get one with really bad trigger slap).

I don't knock the AK. It is a significantly simpler system and generally simpler is better but not when the simpler parts fail and kill the gun.