Rifle for protection

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

I did a little checking and I am not losing my mind. The original milled AK-47 did have a screw in barrel. Since those barrels I saw way back when were for a Chinese Norinco Legend rifle I am not going crazy.

The newer AKMs with the stamped receivers do have press in barrels and since most of the current clones are AKM's you are correct, their barrels are not pressed in correctly.

Sorry for hijacking the thread. I love to learn though.

[Guest mikedwood]

I would imagine that in a true STF senerio, where you had to gtf out. A caliber of rifle and pistol to match would be a good choice. One where the pistol and rifle shot the same ammo. And the rifle was either tube fed of took the same mags as the pistol. So below is my chioce.

I got a Keltec sub 2000 9mm (which takes my Glock mags), It folds down and will easily fit in about anything you want to put it in. It's suppose to be Ok upto about 100 yards I think, which in the hills of Tennessee would be adequate for a lot of things. In the plains or Desert not so much.

I spent 39 years thinking nothing like Katrina was possible, but for under $1,000 bucks I feel comfortable Glock 19 $499, Keltec $324, 4 15 round mags $45, 2 33 rounders $50. I feel as comfortable as I can that if it does I'll be Ok. More realistically if nothing ever happens around here like that. I still have a blast at the range.

A good friend of mine got a .357 Trooper and a .357 Marlin lever action for the same reason.

That said I have a Mac 90 also. Cheap ammo for the size, range and punch you get. It was $699 and came pretty set up with a laser sight, bi-pod and decent scope mounted on a side rail.

I'm in awe of the Ak and you fellowTGO members knowledge about them and fire arms in general. Thanks for all the info as I'm pretty new to firearms made in the last 20 years.

[Paletiger13]

I still want a TAVOR. Wish someone would make them here in the US.

[Urse]

I did a little checking and I am not losing my mind. The original milled AK-47 did have a screw in barrel. Since those barrels I saw way back when were for a Chinese Norinco Legend rifle I am not going crazy.

The newer AKMs with the stamped receivers do have press in barrels and since most of the current clones are AKM's you are correct, their barrels are not pressed in correctly.

Sorry for hijacking the thread. I love to learn though.

I was sitting at the airshow today with a fellow kalashnaholic and he corrected me that the original milled guns did have threaded barrel joints. All stamped and most milled have pinned in barrels though. So now I understand what you are talking about. That said I have/had mostly Vepr(Russian), Arsenal(Bulgarian), Hungarian, Polish and Chinese variants. Across the board they have all been quality rifles. Right now you can buy a $575 high quality AK from Mark Graham at www.arizonaresponsesystems.com These rifles are GTG from the start and he will back his product. There are other quality builders you just need to research them before you spend money. Oh well learn something new everyday.

[Guest Verbal Kint]

I still want a TAVOR. Wish someone would make them here in the US.

+1

[Urse]

I still want a TAVOR. Wish someone would make them here in the US.

Never been a fan of bullpups but the TAVOR is pretty cool.

[Paletiger13]

A TAVOR would be my dream rifle. Maybe we should ask someone to build us one. Wonder if we had enough people wanting one, if someone would man up and make it possible? Hell, they made the AUG MSAR STG 556 here in the US. So what would be the issue? I know that IWI would have to give the approval on someone in the US to make one. COME ON (Gunsmith in the house?)

[Guest Verbal Kint]

A TAVOR would be my dream rifle. Maybe we should ask someone to build us one. Wonder if we had enough people wanting one, if someone would man up and make it possible? Hell, they made the AUG MSAR STG 556 here in the US. So what would be the issue? I know that IWI would have to give the approval on someone in the US to make one. COME ON (Gunsmith in the house?)

Replied to your PM. I actually got to play with a TAVOR while deployed to Israel, and met one of the factory's main reps. Very cool rife and very cool people. I'd love to own a TAVOR, but it doesn't look likely to happen. They were/are more than willing to produce them in the US and/or ship them here if a company here could broker the deal... but it doesn't look promising with all the beurocratic red tape. This was a few years back, and as you can see they still aren't welcomed in the US. And with the coming elections (and coming weapon's ban again, imo) it looks even less likely.

It's a shame.

[Guest gcrookston]

Although my first choice would be a handgun and my second a shotgun, I've always been enchanted by these little guys...

[Moped]

Ok, if your going to throw them out there, then post the specifics on 'em. The middle one I assume is Chinese (but we know what happens when we assume) and I figure one of them might be a russian. Regardless they are beauties though!!!

I love old rifles! I love the history that goes with then as well!

[Guest gcrookston]

Ok, if your going to throw them out there, then post the specifics on 'em. The middle one I assume is Chinese (but we know what happens when we assume) and I figure one of them might be a russian. Regardless they are beauties though!!!

I love old rifles! I love the history that goes with then as well!

left to right: a 1954 Tula Arsenal (Russian), a 1972 "26" Arsenal Chinese, a 1957 Romanian "Cugir" arsenal. The Russian and Chinese appear unisued, but the Romanian has been around the block a few times... the hardest part to collecting these is getting the right slings, tool kits (I'm still needing one for the Chinese)...

Edited April 13, 2008 by gcrookston

[GLOCKMEISTER]

For survival nothing is going to beat a Ruger 10/22...then AK... or SKS or AR15...

Remember if all hell breaks loose you may have to be mobile and you will need to be able to pick up ammo, there should be pleanty of 22's or 223 laying around.

Just an FYI.

[Guest docvantrease2003]

well if the sh*** hits the fan im grabbing my 22s an a 1000 rounds a whole lighter to carry if you have food an water

[nightrunner]

sorry but i just dont trust .22LR for personal protection. for hunting small game, yes, but that is it in a SHTF scenario

[GLOCKMEISTER]

but... a 22 can do allot of damage when you hit someone in the eyeball, then you can pick up what they are carrying. You can carry thousands of rounds for a 22, and can make a 10/22 full auto in minutes. Leaving you to be able to carry other stuff. I guess it depends on how "mobile" you will be.

For defending the home, the bigger the better and it really depends on stock up cost on ammo. 308 should be fine if your are fortifying your place, but going on the move is a whole different story. I guess if your holding out waiting on the good guys thats one thing, but in a SHTF scenario youwill probably have to go mobile at some point.

Im just saying...

Edited April 13, 2008 by GLOCKMEISTER

[Guest mikedwood]

Leaving you to be able to carry other stuff. I guess it depends on how "mobile" you will be.

For defending the home, the bigger the better and it really depends on stock up cost on ammo. 308 should be fine if your are fortifying your place, but going on the move is a whole different story. I guess if your holding out waiting on the good guys that's one thing, but in a SHTF scenario youwill probably have to go mobile at some point.

Im just saying...

Going mobile on foot with 1000 rounds of 7.62x.39 would about leave me weight for a pocket knife or something. I'd have to agree if you were going long term mobile a .22 would be one of the best choices.

If you could take a vehicle that would change things, but gas and murphy's law you might not get far. So still best to have a good .22. Just best to have a .22 anyway, anything else would be gravy. You can probably get a good used .22 with a decent scope, 1000 rounds and a cleaning kit for under $300.

If the SHTF I think it would be necessary to have several different knives also. A good Swiss Army, good machete, and another good strong knife like a Bowie.

As I have read before it totally depends on how "SHTF" as to what would serve best, local, regional, national, global. Natural disaster, invading army, food shortage, gas shortage, riots?

[nightrunner]

i honestly think i would take a AR-15 or a .308 AR if leaving. along with a xd-45 for personal protection and if possible some sort of .22, either a 10/22 or 22/45.

i would hope that i would still be able to use my truck to get out and to a safer place( in the wilderness somewhere) and in that case, i would take all of my guns and ammo and take what i needed out of my truck when i needed it. but honestly it probably wouldnt work out like that.

[K191145]

Well living outside the city I would hope to hold down the fort. I couldn't stand the thought of leaving any of my firearms but in SHTF scenerio I'll have my MAK-90 for my main protection and my Glock 21 on my hip. I'm even afraid to shoot up my stash of ammo now with prices going up. Maybe intstead of buying another gun, I may buy more ammo. Even if you have an overstock it would be a good commodity to trade with.

Where I'm at, I don't see many scenerios that would make me go mobile.

[Moped]

For survival nothing is going to beat a Ruger 10/22...then AK... or SKS or AR15...

Remember if all hell breaks loose you may have to be mobile and you will need to be able to pick up ammo, there should be pleanty of 22's or 223 laying around.

Just an FYI.

Good point! You know, back in the day when they used to hunt black bear up in the smokeys with dogs (before the feds stepped in and made it park), a lot of the bear were killed with .22 rifles after they were treed by the dogs. Many a man has been killed by the lowly .22 as well. A good .22 does have it's place.

A brick of .22 doesn't weight a whole lot either, maybe 4 or 5 pounds. What's 500 rounds of .223 or 7.62x39 weight? 20 or 30 pounds?

I think a Ruger 10/22 with Taurus .22 revolver (9 shot) or a 10 shot automatic pistol (pick your favorite brand) could be a viable combination, though I'd probably carry something a bit bigger for a primary pistol.

One thing I've always thought about in a SHTF situation is that I'm not going to be looking to primarily fight my way out. That would really be the last thing I'd want to do. I'd want to sneak around. If your sneaking, your chances of living are a bit better than if your fighting. I'm not sure a 500 yard rifle is a necessity. If I'm that far away, especially in East Tennessee, I might as well be a 100 miles away.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

exactly... if Im 500 yards away, Im not giving up my position in that type of situation. Another thing, a 22 can be silenced really easy too... a necessity in taking game in unfriendly territory.

But the most important thing you need in a SHTF scenario is a plan of action and the ability to put it into place at a moments notice.

[Moped]

Going mobile on foot with 1000 rounds of 7.62x.39 would about leave me weight for a pocket knife or something. I'd have to agree if you were going long term mobile a .22 would be one of the best choices.

If you could take a vehicle that would change things, but gas and murphy's law you might not get far. So still best to have a good .22. Just best to have a .22 anyway, anything else would be gravy. You can probably get a good used .22 with a decent scope, 1000 rounds and a cleaning kit for under $300.

If the SHTF I think it would be necessary to have several different knives also. A good Swiss Army, good machete, and another good strong knife like a Bowie.

As I have read before it totally depends on how "SHTF" as to what would serve best, local, regional, national, global. Natural disaster, invading army, food shortage, gas shortage, riots?

I came across this site a couple of months ago when I was looking for a good machete to purchase. I ended up purchaing a Cold Steel Kopis Machete. Any way I found this site. You all might be interested in checking it out. http://www.usrsog.org/index.htm You might want to go read their Survival Firearm section. It made a lot of sense, especially the last paragraph. Read the BLADES section as well. They also have a pretty good check list for a Bug Out Kit.

I make no claim to knowing anything about this outfit, but I did enjoy the articles they have posted.

Edited April 14, 2008 by Moped

[Guest mw.]

I use a machete alot at times and the best I've found are onterio knife ones. Holds an edge well, sturdy handle. Get a leather sheath too, I've seen people hurt because of the cheap canvas ones. http://www.eknifeworks.com/webapp/eCommerce/product.jsp?PriceEnd=&order=Default&CatalogName=&range=51&list=50&Feature=&SearchText=machete&Mode=Text&Brand=&PriceStart=&SKU=OCT5

[Guest mikedwood]

Thanks for sharing that Moped and MW. I'm going to save this thread and get one of the two you guys mentioned. My Machete isn't that great but when I decided to make my pack it went in it.

Good idea in there about the Turkey roasting bag I think I'll get a couple of those and throw them in. No added weight really.

I got in the mood a few months ago and made a bug out kit in case. I got into it pretty heavy and think I did pretty well. Still lacking a few things but with tornado season already here and who knows what else. I'm better prepared than I was last year if something were to happen.

That usrsog.org site got me thinking water, water, water.

Apparently you take a bag and put it in the sun with a small stake making a small tent, put dirty water in a cup and place it in the bag, seal the bag and let the condensation run off in another cup and it's OK to drink. Does that sound about right?

Cheaper than dirt shows the shipping weight of 1000 rounds of 7.62x.39 as about 42 pounds. Having a box of it I'd say that's about right.. 6300 rounds of .22 lr is shown as about 52 pounds so 1000 rounds would weigh about 8 pounds. And they are about the same price. after 5000 rounds one should be a pretty good shot with a .22 LR. Also 1000 rounds 223 at about 30 pounds. 1000 rounds 9mm is about 30 pounds also.

Also the silencing good point. Even subsonic rounds would help and you wouldn't have to get to extravagant. Add another .75 pounds or so for 100 rounds of those.

I have always thought the lowly .22 was under rated. I believe in certain SHTF situations it would shine like no other. Some of you make it sound real good. I'm glad I already have a good one or I'd be buying another gun tomorrow.

[Guest Cav_Man_69]

Nothing clears a room like a shotgun.

I'd vote for a good tactical shotgun with a mix of loads for specific situations. Just finished a great book written by a SSGT squad leader in Iraq. Buddy of his used a shotgun with slugs exclusively when they cleared Falllujah.

Hard to imagine things getting worse than that here.

Cav

[Cruel Hand Luke]

But they had guys backing them up with rifles and beltfed guns......

Shotguns are great for PISTOL distance problems. Outside of that rifles or carbines rule. That is why not everyone in that unit had a shotgun......

That is why I like something bigger than .223 for any scenario where I might be alone and might have to shoot THROUGH something. When you have other guys with you with belt fed guns, grenades, rockets and artillery, .223 is not a big liability. If you need to shoot through something you get a guy with a bigger gun to shoot through it, get a bunch of guys to shoot at them to keep their heads down while you manuever to get unobstructed shots at them, or you simply get someone with a rocket to blow a hole in or call in artillery to blow it up.

When you are by yourself and encounter a situation where you need to shoot through things.......then .223 is not quite so charming.