Benefits of SBR?

[Dolomite_supafly]

There are several styles of mag block. I am only familiar with the "Colt" style. There are several way to do a "Colt" style 9mm lower.

CMMG makes a dedicated 9mm lower that has the "mag block" machined in the receiver. This cannot be used for anything other than a "Colt" style setup using stick mags. There is no easy way to use it for a 5.56.

Then there is a dedicated "drop in" mag block. These drop in from the top and are held in place with the mag catch. Even though they are removeable they are still considered semi permanent because it does take tools to remove them. The good part is they cannot fall out and generally work pretty well.

Then finally there is the mag block that goes in the mag well from the bottom. These are held in place with a pressure arrangement using a setscrew. They work just as well as any other and are the only true easily removeble block. The only problem is they can loosen and fall out unexpectedly.

As I said there are other types that use Glock mags, Sten mags and even unmodified Uzi mags.

Dolomite

[creeky]

<EDIT> Dolomite siad it a lot better...

As I understand it... (Again, more knowledgeable guys please correct me!) you can swap uppers, but if you are going to make it permanent you need to have your paperwork changed.

Also I have read if you have a Registerd SBR and a rifle stripped lower in your safe with two short barreled uppers you are illegal. You need to have either no other lower without a top or a registered pistol version for the other upper to "sit" on while not in use. (And I correct here? It's just what I have heard.)

Edited January 17, 2012 by creeky

[rgaper]

As I understand it... (Again, more knowledgeable guys please correct me!) you can swap uppers, but if you are going to make it permanent you need to have your paperwork changed.

Correct. ARs are easy to change configuration in just seconds, so as long as you can convert it back to the configuration listed on the Form 1 or Form 4, your'e good. On the other hand, if your SBR is a Draco 12" and you decide to turn it into a mini, you can't really change it back all that easily.

Also I have read if you have a Registerd SBR and a rifle stripped lower in your safe with two short barreled uppers you are illegal. You need to have either no other lower without a top or a registered pistol version for the other upper to "sit" on while not in use. (And I correct here? It's just what I have heard.)

What you're talking about is "constructive possession." I play it safe and keep a 1:1 ratio, but there are plenty of people who like to try out different configurations, so they have one SBR lower and maybe 2-3 SBR-length uppers. I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV, but if that's your thing, I would definitely keep the NFA stuff in a completely separate safe at a bare minimum.

[Guest twpayne75]

I will just leave this here.

[Hershmeister]

And I'll leave mine here too

SBR Draco = 75 rounds of 7.62 fun!

[k9wh91984]

We all talk about SHTF scenarios and how .223/5.56 is going to be plentiful when we are picking up military and LE weapons as we move down the path but many don't realize that a true situation is likely to be an invasion of another country.....China? Almost everyone of our enemies use the AK47 or 74 and as they come to our shores if it happens...AKs and 7.62 or 5.45 will be used against us most likely. Let them supply us and we need to have full understanding and working ability of their rifles which leads me to owning an AK LMAO...someone tell me I'm wrong HaHa!!

[Guest lostpass]

We all talk about SHTF scenarios and how .223/5.56 is going to be plentiful when we are picking up military and LE weapons as we move down the path but many don't realize that a true situation is likely to be an invasion of another country.....China? Almost everyone of our enemies use the AK47 or 74 and as they come to our shores if it happens...AKs and 7.62 or 5.45 will be used against us most likely. Let them supply us and we need to have full understanding and working ability of their rifles which leads me to owning an AK LMAO...someone tell me I'm wrong HaHa!!

I'd think it more likely that a failure of the economy would happen than we'd be invaded by the Chinese.

First you have ask yourself why someone would invade the US. The easiest answer to come to is that they are after an asset. Don't have all that much oil but we do have a lot of arable land. We can grow a lot of food.But if you're after that you'd invade African countries first.

i see the invasion of America as a very unlikely scenario. So, to me, the most SHTF scenario is internal collapse. In which case the more plentiful ammo will be 5.56 and so forth.

[Guest 556or762]

I like the mobility of the SBR thats why I paid $200 for a 10.5 in SBR I have tried it out with several different bullets and at several ranges. I also own 14.5 and 16" ar's and I think the 1 in 9 twist 10.5 in seems to do its best work ballistically speaking with 55gn ballistic tips or federal 50gn hollow point that actually comes from Wal Mart. I can tell a real difference in the ballistics and the penetration/fragmentation between guns and I think Dolomite is right the 1in7 twist might work ok for fmj or m855 but in a 10.5 in barrel it needs a longer twist and a lighter bullet to be effective. I get my velocity over 2700 (2820 to be exact) with the federal 50gn hollow point so Im good on fragmentation and the longer twist lighter bullet helps to keep it on that ragged edge of stabilization that you need to make it tumble reliably. Of course there is the fact that a SBR is a CQB gun and the stuff will do wonders indoors and it fragments and tumbles so well it wont penetrate 2 walls like m855 from the same gun.

[Guest 556or762]

I'd think it more likely that a failure of the economy would happen than we'd be invaded by the Chinese.

First you have ask yourself why someone would invade the US. The easiest answer to come to is that they are after an asset. Don't have all that much oil but we do have a lot of arable land. We can grow a lot of food.But if you're after that you'd invade African countries first.

i see the invasion of America as a very unlikely scenario. So, to me, the most SHTF scenario is internal collapse. In which case the more plentiful ammo will be 5.56 and so forth.

Do I see a movie plot here or what? The new Red White adn Blue Dawn perhaps? think we could get Matt Damon and Mark Wahlburg to be an unstoppable team of ex military patriots undoing the wrongs of the political powers that be? LOL!

[k9wh91984]

Lol all I'm saying is there is a reason why all our enemies and most countries use the AK. Also what a out the 1800 confirmed deaths of US servicemen in Afghanistan and Iraq due to Colt M4 malfunctions and overheats. Sorry to go off topic but in a SBR I think a larger more potent round than 5.56 might wanna be used especially under 12". Just my opinion.

[Caster]

Lol all I'm saying is there is a reason why all our enemies and most countries use the AK.

Yeah the reason is they can't afford to do any better:)

[k9wh91984]

Lol...wrong

[TMF]

Also what a out the 1800 confirmed deaths of US servicemen in Afghanistan and Iraq due to Colt M4 malfunctions and overheats.

?

[k9wh91984]

?

I wasnt being literal on that number, but there have been many reports where guys have went down because of that fine sand in their weapons which would be unacceptable. Stateside unless your in the desert, the AR should work fine.

[TMF]

I wasnt being literal on that number, but there have been many reports where guys have went down because of that fine sand in their weapons which would be unacceptable. Stateside unless your in the desert, the AR should work fine.

Eh, I put more rounds through my Colt M4 than 99% of the rest of the Army and have only had malfunctions due to bad mags or the bolt lugs breaking. I've put over 6 combat loads through it (well over 1,000 rds) without cleaning or lubricating during one day on the range and had no issues at all. All those stories you hear (such as the Jessica Lynch POG unit) revolve around Soldiers who don't know how to properly maintain their weapons, then complain that there is something wrong with the rifle. M-16 series rifles haven't had real issues relating to poor design since mid-Viet Nam era, and the kinks have been since worked out. Even in the desert environment, if it's cleaned every so often and given a light coat of thin viscosity lubricant (not drowning it in CLP) the desert dust won't accumulate on it as much and thus "gum" it all up.

I do agree that the AK performs better in austere environments with poorly trained troops, and that is the reason so many third worlds use it... you can teach a caveman how to use it without having to expect them to conduct proper maintenace, and trust me, I've trained my share of cavemen on using the AK. You can lubricate it with sand and it will still work.

[Caster]

Thanks TMF, My civilian point of view has always been the same. To all the people who boast whatever they use is MORE reliable than an AR, I wonder, do ya'll ever clean your gun? I mean brags about 9 million rounds without a jam, soaked in a mud and sand slurry and urinating down the barrel....you know, you've heard it all; Who cares? Do you really treat your gun that way here in TN? I'm no gunsmith but I have fixed more than one semi auto that won't cycle, just by cleaning it. It amazes me at how trifling lazy some gun owners are. Especially where Wolf and WD40 meet one another. I quietly contemplate the validity of claims where a QUALITY AR jams frequently. I also wonder if said owner has ever opened his/her cleaning kit.

Maybe some people are just made out of money, but I ain't and I care too much about my rifle(s) to not care for them.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Caster

[Dolomite_supafly]

I will mimic what TMF 18B is saying.

On my trips I would get issued an AR. I would completely disassemble it, clean it and look for any issues such as cracked lugs. After that I would never break the gun open again until turn in 10-12 weeks later. During my 10-12 week trips I would fire 300-500 rounds per week, again without doing any major cleaning. That is at a minimum 3,000 rounds per trip and often more. I never had a single issue. At the end of the trip I would clean my gun before turn in.

I would use very little, if any, lubricant and never had an issue.

Dolomite

[k9wh91984]

Thanks TMF, My civilian point of view has always been the same. To all the people who boast whatever they use is MORE reliable than an AR, I wonder, do ya'll ever clean your gun? I mean brags about 9 million rounds without a jam, soaked in a mud and sand slurry and urinating down the barrel....you know, you've heard it all; Who cares? Do you really treat your gun that way here in TN? I'm no gunsmith but I have fixed more than one semi auto that won't cycle, just by cleaning it. It amazes me at how trifling lazy some gun owners are. Especially where Wolf and WD40 meet one another. I quietly contemplate the validity of claims where a QUALITY AR jams frequently. I also wonder if said owner has ever opened his/her cleaning kit.

Maybe some people are just made out of money, but I ain't and I care too much about my rifle(s) to not care for them.

Lol I hear ya!

[Oh Shoot]

... that a true situation is likely to be an invasion of another country.....China? Almost everyone of our enemies use the AK47 or 74 ...

Bzzt. Massive tin foil alert aside, China has switched to a caliber for which practically no one in the US has guns.

- OS

[Dolomite_supafly]

Bzzt. Massive tin foil alert aside, China has switched to a caliber for which practically no one in the US has guns.

- OS

5.8x42mm is the caliber. It is ballistically similar to the US 5.56x45 or the Soviet 5.45x39. As far as I know there are no weapons in the US chambered for it, no doubt because of the Chinese ammunition and Chinese military weapons importation ban.

Here is the Wikipedia info on it:

5.8×42mm DBP87 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The weapon that is chambered for it is a bullpup design.

And realistically if you are going to loot ammunition you are probably going to loot the weapon as well. No sense in looting ammunition and leave the weapon.

Dolomite

[k9wh91984]

Gotta loot it all!

[East_TN_Patriot]

Lol all I'm saying is there is a reason why all our enemies and most countries use the AK.

All of our enemies use the AK platform because during the Cold War the former Soviet Union made them in massive quantities and gave them to their allies and/or provided them the ability to build them. They are cheap to make, easy to work on, and anyone who can pick one up can operate it. It's not particularly accurate in comparison to other military rifles and can't easily be adapted to other functions like the AR platform.

There is a reason many of our allies use the AR platform and virtually all use the 5.56 cartridge.

Even if the Chinese did invade, I wouldn't be worried about not having an AK because I'm confident it wouldn't be hard to get one off a dead body at some point. The 5.56 is the standard NATO round, it's stockpiled by our military and our allies, law enforcement agencies use it, and most gun owners do as well. There will likely be far more 5.56 ammo around in the early stages of a foreign invasion and will definitely be more around in the event of social collapse here.

Edited January 20, 2012 by East_TN_Patriot

[TMF]

Bzzt. Massive tin foil alert aside, China has switched to a caliber for which practically no one in the US has guns.

- OS

All the more reason to keep the tin foil hat firmly in place... coincidence that the Chinese would switch to a caliber that we don't have available? You hear those choppers?.... of course you don't, because they're stealth!!

[Guest 556or762]

And realistically if you are going to loot ammunition you are probably going to loot the weapon as well. No sense in looting ammunition and leave the weapon.

Dolomite

I know if I take the time to pry ammo from someones cold dead hands Im taking their gun and wallet too! I guess I might just take everything not attatched, you never know when an enemy unifrm might come in handy anybody ever try to get into your enemys compound in your uniform, it dont work well!

[Jasongar8]

Guys, after reading the five pages of debate I have come to my conclusion. I dont care the ability to pick up ammo off of dead soldiers. The drop in velocity doesnt bother me that much. I have my SBR's because I think they are cool. Simple as that. I wanted to build a MP5 clone and they have a 9" barrel, so that's what I did. And I just like the look of a 10.3" barrel AR. Call me crazy if you like, but that is my answer.

Oh, and chicks dig short barrels.