1K and my AR

[Guest FroggyOne2]

The faster revs on the bullet will help a lil on stablizing the bullet as it enters transonic speeds.. You begin to enter trasnsonic at around 1400 fps, but the edge of bullet disturbance is at around 1150 to 1050 fps for most rifle bullets. The reason that the Sierra 168 and 180 grain 30 cal bullets are not a good choice for 1000 yard shooting, because of the shape of the boatail and the length of it cause it to transonic disturbance at somewhere around 1300 fps.. They were not designed to be shoot past 300 meters for the 168 and 600 meters for the 180's.

[mikegideon]

And, won't the bullet try to restablize after it's out of the transition? It may ding the trajectory. If you slap a spinning gyro, it will restablize over time.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Once it starts to wobble on the end tratectory, it will not come back.. I understand what your saying, a bullet as it exits the barrel is not stable and must "go to sleep". This is one of the reasons that shooting at 100 yards for groups with long range bullets is almost futile, at minimum 200 yards should groups be shot. I like shooting at 300 yards myself when testing.

[mikegideon]

Once it starts to wobble on the end tratectory, it will not come back.. I understand what your saying, a bullet as it exits the barrel is not stable and must "go to sleep". This is one of the reasons that shooting at 100 yards for groups with long range bullets is almost futile, at minimum 200 yards should groups be shot. I like shooting at 300 yards myself when testing.

Yeah. I plan to develop those Berger VLD loads at 200, since that's all I have here in the hood. One of the reasons it's taking so long.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

When your ready to expand that testing range.. let me know..

[Guest FroggyOne2]

I can't help but think about how many of you others that have read this and were afraid to say something.. don't be shy.. step in.. we will try to help you any way we can.

[RWF]

Were the bullets 77 grain matchkings? If so, I get around 2750 out of my Black Hills stuff with a 24" 8 twist. My program puts the transition around 880. I figured you would be a little slower out of a 20".

I don't use JBM, but my sight adjust printouts are dead nuts out to 700.

Since you have a 7 twist, you can shoot about anything out of that gun. Take a look at this...

Loading Block AR-15 10-Round Length

I added one of these, and a BAD lever.

first, thank you very much froggy.

i was going to get a bob sled before i did the 600 F/TR match in Memphis but they said it was not mandatory, and had forgotten about it.

wow on your black hills! just so i am clear, it was not 223 or the white box 2nds, it was Black hills 5.56 OTM and each i have checked it. it has always been right at 2858. and i always shoot this gun supressed, and yes it is not NRA match legal. but i would not think it would add that much on FPS. the supresser does tighten the groups up, not a lot but a noticable difference at 400.

also this gun will not cycle standard 223 loads, extra wieghts in buffer heavy bolt and adjustable gas block. so it stays locked up longer.

the barrel is a white oak destignated marksman 1 x 7.

this was my 2nd mid-long range rifle match in my life. 1 at 600 and 1 at 1000.

about 25 years ago i had shot a 1000 in the army and was seeing if i could do it again but if was not for F class i would have not tried.

Edited January 16, 2012 by RWF

[mikegideon]

When your ready to expand that testing range.. let me know..

One of these days

[RWF]

The faster revs on the bullet will help a lil on stablizing the bullet as it enters transonic speeds.. You begin to enter trasnsonic at around 1400 fps, but the edge of bullet disturbance is at around 1150 to 1050 fps for most rifle bullets. The reason that the Sierra 168 and 180 grain 30 cal bullets are not a good choice for 1000 yard shooting, because of the shape of the boatail and the length of it cause it to transonic disturbance at somewhere around 1300 fps.. They were not designed to be shoot past 300 meters for the 168 and 600 meters for the 180's.

damn it, i am not that old! but that is what they were saying at Jim's match! i know i have some problems with my noodle (no not that noodle! the one on top of my shoulders) with legions/mini stokes.

i swear the 168 match is what was use with M21. and you had to hit a 1000. god i hope my little pea brain is not that far gone.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Oh I am not saying that it can't be done, the Army used to use 168's in the 30-06 back in the day.. but the real reason the 168 was designed was for at the time, to be used in 300 meter competition.

[mikegideon]

first, thank you very froggy.

i was going to get a bob sled before i did the 600 F/TR match in Memphis but they said it was not mandatory, and had forgotten about it.

wow on your black hills! just so i am clear, it was not 223 or the white box 2nds, it was Black hills 5.56 OTM and each i have checked it. it has always been right at 2858. and i always shoot this gun supressed, and yes it is not NRA match legal. but i would not think it would add that much on FPS. the supresser does tighten the groups up, not a lot but a noticable difference at 400.

also this gun will not cycle standard 223 loads, extra wieghts in buffer heavy bolt and adjustable gas block. so it stays locked up longer.

the barrel is a white oak destignated marksman 1 x 7.

this was my 2nd mid-long range rifle match in my life. 1 at 600 and 1 at 1000.

about 25 years ago i had shot a 1000 in the army and was seeing if i could do it again but if was not for F class i would have not tried.

Mine are .223 loads. That explains the velocity difference. I kinda wish I had taken Froggy's advice when I bought my upper. He recommeded White Oak at the time, and I was too impatient. The Bob Sled is pretty slick, if you add something like a BAD lever to release the bolt. I haven't shot any competition, but have been fortunate enough to have some access to longer range berms. Been doing lots of fiddling trying to get my equipment right.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Yep.. now that you mention that.. I seem to remember that. As for me, my new barrelled action should be here wensday.. can't wait.. will be out at the range on sat for sure.. testing loads..

[RWF]

froggy, i know, its just there are times i wish i could remember with no doubts! it is a aweful thing. but back then i also did not give it thought, the bullets that is, just as long as the box/can had correct name on it and was not just delinked M-60.

oh well.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

It is all ok, because now, your learning curve is going to be different.. have thought and knowledge of what was in the past, but today in the present, the game is all different.

[mikegideon]

Yep.. now that you mention that.. I seem to remember that. As for me, my new barrelled action should be here wensday.. can't wait.. will be out at the range on sat for sure.. testing loads..

Good luck! You gonna try the Berger seating depth ladder, or just shove them into the lands?

[Guest FroggyOne2]

I sent some dummy rounds to the smith to get the seating dept, I will start there. See if I can get it going with about 10 thou in the lands..

[mikegideon]

I can't hit my lands without using tape. Minimum seating depth puts me about 40 thousanths away with 80g VLD's. So, I gotta jump them.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Well Berger says that to try 40, 60, 80 and 120 thou jumps with the bullet..

[mikegideon]

Well Berger says that to try 40, 60, 80 and 120 thou jumps with the bullet..

Aready got 'em loaded

[Guest FroggyOne2]

what powder are you using? My first thought would be to try Varget, then RL-15.. Or that new 2000MR.. which I do want to get some of that powder to try in my gun.

[mikegideon]

what powder are you using? My first thought would be to try Varget, then RL-15.. Or that new 2000MR.. which I do want to get some of that powder to try in my gun.

Just call me Mitt. I waffle between Varget and RL-15. The 80's are loaded with RL-15.

[Guest FroggyOne2]

should work

[Guest FroggyOne2]

What I am going to do is start putting the loads together prob today.. at least the ladder test.. and seat the bullets long.. and soft seat them.. with only running about 1 thou of tention in the neck.. that is the only way that I will be able to get them in the lands.. and also it should put the bullets where the rifle wants them as long as I don't have to make them jump.. on the other hand, those 90 grain LRBT's, they like to jump.. about 40-60 thou

[Guest FroggyOne2]

Oh, have you thought about those 82 grain Bergers.. or the 80.5 one? If you have noticed.. the 80.5 Fullbore bullet has the highest BC in the 80 grain class of bullets.

[mikegideon]

Oh, have you thought about those 82 grain Bergers.. or the 80.5 one? If you have noticed.. the 80.5 Fullbore bullet has the highest BC in the 80 grain class of bullets.

Yep. Got 82's sitting on the list at midway. The BC is only up a hair on the 80.5's. I think they're gonna shoot the same. They're the same dimensions.