Tennessean: Private sale; also, anyone have contact with Bill Goodman re: gun show?

[Guest brianhaas]

Pardon the interruption. I'm trying to get in touch with Bill Goodman, who is running the gun show this weekend in Nashville.

I'm trying to interview him for a story I'm working on about private sales and the issue of background checks. Anti-gun folks call it the "loophole" while obviously a lot of other folks see it as the law working as intended.

I'm trying to get access to the show, which has been problematic for the media in the past (which makes sense, since a lot of media butcher Second Amendment stories), and hoping to get in touch with him to get access. I'm probably one of the more reasonable and fair reporters on firearms issues, so I'm hoping to convince him to let me in so I can talk to him about the issue and see what other folks might say as well.

I'm hoping to maybe meet some of the TGO members there as well if I have time and I'd love to solicit opinions on the issue of the so-called "loophole".

Should private sales be subject to background checks like FFL's are? Are there worries about felons using those laws to their advantage to obtain guns? Or is it too burdensome on private owners to require them to perform background checks?

I'd love to get your guys' thoughts on the issue, obviously if you'd like your comments potentially published, I'd need your full name and the city where you reside. You can also email me below if you'd like.

Thanks and hope everyone had a great holiday and New Year's.

Brian Haas

The Tennessean

Email: bhaas@tennessean.com.

Office: 615-726-8968

Fax: 615-259-8093

Twitter: Twitter

Facebook: Brian Haas | The Tennessean - Journalist - Nashville, TN | Facebook

http://www.tennessean.com

[craglawnmanor]

I believe Mr. Goodman passed away in September of 2011.

His organization has an easily found website. Why don't you email them?

[Guest brianhaas]

I believe Mr. Goodman passed away in September of 2011.

His organization has an easily found website. Why don't you email them?

Ah, wasn't aware that he passed. That would explain why I got his son's voicemail. I've emailed them already, just looking to cover all my bases.

In any event, I'm still interested in reaching out to whomever is running the show so I could talk and maybe get a tour of the show itself, if anyone knows how I could get in touch with them.

Edited January 13, 2012 by brianhaas

[bigwakes]

Ah, wasn't aware that he passed. That would explain why I got his son's voicemail. I've emailed them already, just looking to cover all my bases.

In any event, I'm still interested in reaching out to whomever is running the show so I could talk and maybe get a tour of the show itself, if anyone knows how I could get in touch with them.

Tours are $8 and you can just pay at the door.

[Guest brianhaas]

Tours are $8 and you can just pay at the door.

Yeah, I'm sure I'd be allowed full access if I just showed up unannounced with a photographer and started asking questions

I may end up having to do that anyway, but I'm trying to be as considerate as possible to the show's organizers.

[Okey]

Tours are $8 and you can just pay at the door.

Don't forget about the 5 dollars to park.

[Mike.357]

Yeah, I'm sure I'd be allowed full access if I just showed up unannounced with a photographer and started asking questions

I may end up having to do that anyway, but I'm trying to be as considerate as possible to the show's organizers.

I don't know why you would not be allowed in provided you both paid.

But I know how you media types operate, always look for a press pass to get the free food and other swag.

As for gun show loopholes and other private sales, I may be wrong but I am guessing that if they made private sales illegal, felons and criminals would still have guns.

[LagerHead]

Tours are $8 and you can just pay at the door.

Don't forget about the 5 dollars to park.

Hope you have an expense account.

I don't know why you would not be allowed in provided you both paid.

But I know how you media types operate, always look for a press pass to get the free food and other swag.

As for gun show loopholes and other private sales, I may be wrong but I am guessing that if they made private sales illegal, felons and criminals would still have guns.

Very true. The only thing it would really accomplish would be to outlaw the Christmas present I just gave my father-in-law, for example. Very, very few guns used in crime come from gun shows.

[bigwakes]

Hope you have an expense account.

Very true. The only thing it would really accomplish would be to outlaw the Christmas present I just gave my father-in-law, for example. Very, very few guns used in crime come from gun shows.

Now that you mention it I have several firearms purchased at gun shows that I never used in a crime.

[Caster]

Don't forget about the 5 dollars to park.

If you have a handicap tag they wave that fee.

[Guest brianhaas]

I don't know why you would not be allowed in provided you both paid.

But I know how you media types operate, always look for a press pass to get the free food and other swag.

As for gun show loopholes and other private sales, I may be wrong but I am guessing that if they made private sales illegal, felons and criminals would still have guns.

Ha! Swag

Nah, we typically don't accept swag unless it's available to everyone in the public as well. Same goes for free food. If everyone else has to pay, so do we. Maybe not every journalist follows that perfectly, but I do.

I may likely just show up and pay, but there have been cases where the media is just ejected for showing up. Which is well within their rights, since it is a private event.

I'm really trying to avoid that, particularly since I'm really just interested in learning about this issue.

[R_Bert]

Now that you mention it I have several firearms purchased at gun shows that I never used in a crime.

I have been to several gunshows that could have been considered a crime

[UncleJak]

OPINION: I would never sell a gun in a private sale to an individual who I believed to be a criminal or who I believed to have malicious intent. I have sold and bought guns from people I have met online. Luckily I have never showed up to meet one of these guys and they appear "shady". If I felt uncomfortable with the sale, I would respectfully walk away. I hope other people would do the same. This same approach would also apply at a gun show. Responsible gun owners are not the ones to worry about. Most laws target responsible gun owners, but they are intended to target criminals. This "loop hole" is only a problem for the law makers because they cannot collect tax on these private sales.

Thanks to anyone who listens to my opinion!

UncleJak

[Garufa]

I understand where you're coming from Brian but there really is no "issue" to learn about.

Private individuals may legally sell guns to one another whether it be at a gun show or Wal-Mart parking lot. There are no licensed dealers involved so a background check is not required by federal law.

There are many in this country with the mistaken assumption that this is some type of "loophole" in the system. One could argue semantics all day on whether that is the case or not but the fact does exist you can buy a gun without going through a dealer and in this state pay a fee to run a background check.

Other than inciting hysterics of the often emotional and completely uneducated posters on the Tennessean website I see no purpose in furthering misunderstanding on gun, and property, rights in this country and more importantly this state.

You will learn that it is indeed possible to buy guns without going through a dealer. Many dealers hate that because they are not getting $20-$50 to run you through the system.

Your articles have mostly been fairly unbiased. I hope that continues.

[Guest motonut]

I understand perfectly why Brian would want "permission" from the organizers to attend a gun show. If he didn't and just showed up trying to interview people some would scream he was trying to "ambush" the show and the attendees.

Lighten up on him guys. From his history on this site he tries to present all sides to a story and we need that. Cut him some slack.

[dunndw]

I think he wants to attend as a journalist completly above board, not as a "Investigative reporter" as in one of bloomburgs hitmen goading people into saying or doing something to paint all gun owners in a bad light. For that I think he deserves some help if it's out there. I can understand the gun shows issues with letting the media in, ya'll dont have a real good track record on being on our side.

Wish I could help. The only one I know is Bob Pope, and he's already nuked that bridge with his latest antics

[DaveTN]

No one wants to “Close the Gun Show loopholeâ€. They want to stop private sales and make it appear it will only impact “Gun Showsâ€.

I wish if you are going to do a story you would make it clear there is a lot more here at stake than gun show sales.

[R_Bert]

No one wants to “Close the Gun Show loophole”. They want to stop private sales and make it appear it will only impact “Gun Shows”.

I wish if you are going to do a story you would make it clear there is a lot more here at stake than gun show sales.

Indeed.

Also, while gun sales have dramatically increased, homicides are down.

Homicide drops off US list of top causes of death » Knoxville News Sentinel

[Guest pfries]

Now that you mention it I have several firearms purchased at gun shows that I never used in a crime.

Are you Slacking? We all know thats what they are for....

[gregintenn]

Everyone here has described the issue accurately.

Brian, assuming you are of legal age, and otherwise legally eligible to own a firearm, it is lawful for me, a guy who doesn't have a federal firearm dealer's license, to sell a firearm to you from my private collection. I can do it at my home, your home, the parking lot at Hooter's, etc., or at a gun show. I am not required to submit a background check on you like a dealer would be required to do. The gun show just happens to be a place where those of us who are of like mind tend to congregate to buy, sell, swap, trade, and tell lies. It's really no different from an electronics show, dog show, or guitar show.

I cannot legally sell firearms with the intent of making profit, however, without holding an FFL, and adhering to the rules and regulationss associated with it. The law isn't real clear as to how many guns one can sell, or how much profit one could realize without needing the license. I assume that would be the judgement call of a BATFE agent. A non dealer can even rent a table at a show in order to liquidate a collection. It is, however, unlawful to transfer a firearm to an out of state resident if you aren't a dealer.

If you buy a firearm from a dealer at a show, you are subjected to the same paperwork and background check as you would be at the dealer's store. Bottom line is that the law doesn't change at the gun show. The same rules and regulations apply there as they do anywhere else. If a person isn't happy with the current law, they should become active in trying to get it changed. The false reporting of "the gunshow loophole" by the mainstream media is a perfect example of why they are currently held in such low esteem by a great number of Americans.

[hipower]

Everyone here has described the issue accurately.

Brian, assuming you are of legal age, and otherwise legally eligible to own a firearm, it is lawful for me, a guy who doesn't have a federal firearm dealer's license, to sell a firearm to you from my private collection. I can do it at my home, your home, the parking lot at Hooter's, etc., or at a gun show. I am not required to submit a background check on you like a dealer would be required to do. The gun show just happens to be a place where those of us who are of like mind tend to congregate to buy, sell, swap, trade, and tell lies. It's really no different from an electronics show, dog show, or guitar show.

I cannot legally sell firearms with the intent of making profit, however, without holding an FFL, and adhering to the rules and regulationss associated with it. The law isn't real clear as to how many guns one can sell, or how much profit one could realize without needing the license. I assume that would be the judgement call of a BATFE agent. A non dealer can even rent a table at a show in order to liquidate a collection. It is, however, unlawful to transfer a firearm to an out of state resident if you aren't a dealer.

If you buy a firearm from a dealer at a show, you are subjected to the same paperwork and background check as you would be at the dealer's store. Bottom line is that the law doesn't change at the gun show. The same rules and regulations apply there as they do anywhere else. If a person isn't happy with the current law, they should become active in trying to get it changed. The false reporting of "the gunshow loophole" by the mainstream media is a perfect example of why they are currently held in such low esteem by a great number of Americans.

Well said, my friend. I too, have bought, sold and traded at these gun shows we're all so fond of. And as Garufa has stated, I believe the big "loophole closure thing" is just a mutifaceted attack. One, on our wallets; as the idiots spending every penny and more in the state and couty budgets are just looking for another source of funds. And number two, this is hepled along by some, not saying all, dealers who resent the loss of sales from the FTF individuals. And thirdly, just another step in trying to regulate, reduce, and finally shut off the ability of individuals to purchase handguns and long guns outside the FFL dealers.

[Seabeejason]

I am a very conservative individual when it comes to gun laws. With that said, I believe most folks use their best judgement when selling a gun to another individual in a private sale. There is actually a lot at stake. If that person you sell to takes that gun and commits a crime, you could possibly be held partially responsible. I actually make people sign a Bill of Sale and show me an I.D. when I trade or sell a firearm. It covers my behind and makes me feel confident that individual is not a felon or criminal. You just have to use your best judgement. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....it's a duck! If I feel that a person is possibly a "bad guy" I will not sell him a gun. Now, even if this "loop hole" is closed it will not mean anything. People will still find a way around it. A dealer is a licensed retail sales business that has to obide by federal and state regulations and taxes. Once I buy a gun it is my property and I have the right to do what I want with it. If I want to take it and smash it with a hammer it is my business, not the governments or anyone else's. It is a statistical fact that gun owners are much less likely to be victimized than non gun owners. A criminal will get a gun no matter what because other criminals will sell them that gun. If government blocks an everyday citizen from gun ownership in any way criminals will exploit that and they will prey on those same innocent individuals. The right to bear arms is paramount to keeping those dirt bags at bay. I know that is a different issue entirely, but if government closes this "loop hole" it will only lead to further and more strict gun laws in the future. This is not a loop hole at all. It is part of the liberty and freedom that was fought for throughout our countries history. It should not be taken away by anyone.

[mikegideon]

I sold a pistol to Greg in a parking lot once. In fact, I have done several parking lot deals, mostly trades. Don't think i've done one with someone that didn't have a permit, so I'm reasonably certain that they could pass a background check anyway.

This "loophole" philosophy is based on the idea that it's ok to inconvenience millions of folks while not accomplishing anything of substance, as long as it doesn't inconvenience me. It is the absolute worst element of the liberal mentality.

[Mykltn]

Brian, the mistake here is the assumption that private firearms sales are soley the by-product of gun shows. It is true that a fair amount of private sales take place there, but this is only due to the fact that people selling know that people who want to buy are going to be there. But as far as targeting the gun show as the cause of these sales is a bias of the media who so often look for something to blame for gun crime other than the criminal himself. Private sales in Tennessee are already governed by laws. See below:

(To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA? A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.)

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

So as long as the seller abides by these laws no "loophole" exists. I would bet more guns fell into the hands of criminals by the US Justice Dept last year than from private sales at gunshows. Maybe you should try contacting Eric Holder for a tour of his offices.

[BigK]

Brian, his editor, and the owner(s) of the newspaper have no interest in educating the public about this topic. If they did, they could simply recited the laws and give a simple explanation. In fact there are un-biased interpretations of the law readily available. This information is so easy to find online, that even a caveman (or reporter) could do it. But, that's not sexy. And, nobody would read that story.

Anti-2A folks get all riled up every time this kind of story is published. Clever rhetoric and misleading names like "gun show loophole" are intentionally used to accomplish this purpose. As many have said here, there is no loophole. The laws governing firearm sales apply everywhere...even gun shows. However, Brian and his ilk continue to spin the subject to keep it in the news...why?

When Brian or someone else gets a firearm-related story published it generates lots of newspaper sales and/or website traffic. I often see as many comments on the Tennessean website by "us" as I do "them". When "we" go there to make comments that attempt to set the story straight we are generating hits on their site to sell ads. These hits/ads/revenue allow them to continue to bend us over and stick it to us on these issues.