Shotgun Newb

[wcsc12]

Hi again

Well, after I finish building my AR-15 (should be done by April or May at the latest only because parts shopping SUCKS), I will only have 2 more guns to buy and then I'm done for awhile. The SP2022 (just waiting on the right sale....speaking of sales...so guess what...in Georgia, the SP2022 is on sale at adventure something or another for $329 until the 21st...yay except they won't sell online or ship to TN so no love for me and I don't know anyone in GA that can get one for me and just ship it to my FFL for me) and a shotgun.

So tell me what I need to know about buying a shotgun because I literally have no knowledge beyond that I've shot my friends shotguns a few times and I think he has a Mossberg 12 gauge pump action that holds 5 or 6 cartridges inside it and has a belt strap that holds 4-5 more on the stock.

I don't really have a use for it at all beyond just shooting it with friends and keeping it around the house just in case some bad ass robber wants a face full of bird shot followed by rock salt and lastly, a slug .

So good brands, models, etc? Max cost I say is about $300 - $400.

[Mike]

some bad ass robber wants a face full of bird shot followed by rock salt and lastly, a slug

First, ditch the illusions rock salt and birdshot and use Slugs or 00Buck. Birdshot will not penetrate a human enough to deliver results, rock salt is just foolish in my opinion. If it comes down to where you have to shoot someone; shoot to stop the threat, not to wound or "scare them off". Kill them.

Pick up a Remington 870, used they can be had for as little as 250, or a Mossberg 500. Either will serve you well.

What you want to do with them is going to be the deciding factor in what exactly you buy. A skeet gun is going to be much different than a dedicated home defense gun.

Mike

Edited January 11, 2012 by Mike

[mikegideon]

Pump Action Shotgun - Model 870 Express Synthetic 7 Round - Remington Shotguns

[Jonnin]

I really like a semi auto. Most of those can be modified to hold 8-10 shots of regular 12ga which is a substantial weapon. There are pros and cons to pump vs auto but consider both. Also walk thru your home with something as big as the shotgun you are looking at --- some homes are just too cramped for running around with a big old bird gun and you may need to look into a pistol grip one (which can have brutal recoil) or a short barrel one (which makes putting an extended magazine tube on it less than effective, you may only get 5 shots with that setup). You can get a lot of gun for that money, if you go for used.

[wcsc12]

First, ditch the illusions rock salt and birdshot and use Slugs or 00Buck. Birdshot will not penetrate a human enough to deliver results, rock salt is just foolish in my opinion. If it comes down to where you have to shoot someone; shoot to stop the threat, not to wound or "scare them off". Kill them.

Pick up a Remington 870, used they can be had for as little as 250, or a Mossberg 500. Either will serve you well.

What you want to do with them is going to be the deciding factor in what exactly you buy. A skeet gun is going to be much different than a dedicated home defense gun.

Mike

Sorry was an attempt at adding humor...

What's a good in between then? I do like shooting Skeet sometimes. Would those two do okay for both?

I really like a semi auto. Most of those can be modified to hold 8-10 shots of regular 12ga which is a substantial weapon. There are pros and cons to pump vs auto but consider both. Also walk thru your home with something as big as the shotgun you are looking at --- some homes are just too cramped for running around with a big old bird gun and you may need to look into a pistol grip one (which can have brutal recoil) or a short barrel one (which makes putting an extended magazine tube on it less than effective, you may only get 5 shots with that setup). You can get a lot of gun for that money, if you go for used.

What's a decent semi auto?

Edited January 11, 2012 by wcsc12

[Guest vthokies03]

Birdshot will not penetrate a human enough to deliver results

Mike

I disagree with that. The first two rounds in my pump are high brass 7.5. I can justify that because my house is not long. If you are in my house, bird shot to the neck/face area would give you a bad day. However, if by chance I needed the buck, it would be real easy to shuck the first two rounds out.

As far as autos, you can find some used 1187 or 1100 in your price range. The biggest problem might be barrel length.

Most HD shotguns will not serve as a HD/Skeet gun, unless you have 2 barrels (1 short and 1 long)

[FJCrusing]

If space is constrained in your residence I would recommend the Taurus Judge for Home Defense. They will run you a little more than a 12 Gauge but at least you could carry it with you or keep it in your car.

[Guest nysos]

If space is constrained in your residence I would recommend the Taurus Judge for Home Defense. They will run you a little more than a 12 Gauge but at least you could carry it with you or keep it in your car.

What is the point of having the judge over any other pistol? 410 round out of a 3 inch barrel doesn't achieve enough velocity to do much damage to a human. You may as well use the .45 LC, or stick with what the OP wanted and get a cheap 12g.

[bigwakes]

If space is constrained in your residence I would recommend the Taurus Judge for Home Defense. They will run you a little more than a 12 Gauge but at least you could carry it with you or keep it in your car.

.410 would never be my go to caliber in a defensive situation. If it was defense against bunnies or snakes sure, but you need a manly caliber to stop a man. The short barrel on the judge makes the ballistics of .410 shot even worse not to mention the rifling causes unpredictable and less than ideal shot patterns. I have a Remington 870 25" barrel that I added a 3 rounder extended to. I use it for skeet and would use it for home defense if I could keep it out of the kids hands easier. My go to home defense gun is a Glock 22 .40 caliber because it's effective, easy to keep in a safe and access quickly, and I have 45 rounds at my nearly instant disposal with a couple quick mag changes. Try loading a wheel gun in the dark.

[FJCrusing]

The chamber could be alternated with .410 and .45LC. I don't personally use one for self defense but use a Glock 22 .40 caliber along with a Remington 870 Home Defense. I personally would not want to be hit with a .410 round and then a .45LC right after that or vise verse. It's just more of a versatile firearm that could be used at home for self defense as all that I am saying if a 12 Gauge was not an option and someone lived in a confined area such as an apartment, etc.

[Mike]

I disagree with that. The first two rounds in my pump are high brass 7.5. I can justify that because my house is not long. If you are in my house, bird shot to the neck/face area would give you a bad day. However, if by chance I needed the buck, it would be real easy to shuck the first two rounds out.

Getting hit with a BB gun will make a poor day for me. Don't bring the straw man into this.

What purpose does the Birdshot serve you, specifically? Why not lead with something that will actually deliver results?

Mike

[Mike]

If space is constrained in your residence I would recommend the Taurus Judge for Home Defense. They will run you a little more than a 12 Gauge but at least you could carry it with you or keep it in your car.

The Taurus Judge is the most marketed and one of the least adequate "defense" weapon produced. There are many more options out there that deliver much more effective wounds while being able to deliver more than 5 rounds at a time with a simpler manual of arms..

Mike

[bigwakes]

I think the OP was asking about a good option, not if I had to could I. I would stick to your original plan of a 12 gauge, but get the pistol first. It's a good option when the 12 is not available. You can also get a SAIGA 12 gauge in the $500 price range that is semi auto with plenty of reliability in a high brass defensive round.

[Guest vthokies03]

I shoot about 3x as much shotgun a year than I do pistol/rifle. I understand the limitations on the bird shot. The wife and I are the only ones in the house, I have no intent of attempting to clear my house. I will barricade us in the bathroom. If I catch you in our doorway to the bedroom, that shot place at neck level at that distance will cause devastation on soft tissue.

It will not be shot at center mass, thats not what the intent is. However once we are barricaded the bird shot will be dropped for buckshot.

I am worried about pellets exiting the house. If I am standing in the bedroom shooting through the doorway I have windows on the other side. I would not want buckshot entering into the neighborhood.

[Guest Patty]

A 20 gauge youth model pump, Mossberg with #4 magnum will do the job. Bird shot out of a 12 gauge nasty stuff, really going to mess up a human bad with that.

[wcsc12]

What is the point of having the judge over any other pistol? 410 round out of a 3 inch barrel doesn't achieve enough velocity to do much damage to a human. You may as well use the .45 LC, or stick with what the OP wanted and get a cheap 12g.

I was honestly expecting a comment about going nuts on gun buys but this should be the last gun I buy this year and then nothing for a couple of years as I won't want anything else. Any comment on shotty's?

I think the OP was asking about a good option, not if I had to could I. I would stick to your original plan of a 12 gauge, but get the pistol first. It's a good option when the 12 is not available. You can also get a SAIGA 12 gauge in the $500 price range that is semi auto with plenty of reliability in a high brass defensive round.

Well the pistol is going to be bought no matter what and so is the shotty. I just want to be sure I get something decent as I don't really know much if any about shotgun brands. I guess I'll stick with a Mossberg or Remington as suggested. Thanks guys.

Edited January 12, 2012 by wcsc12

[Mike]

Bird shot out of a 12 gauge nasty stuff, really going to mess up a human bad with that.

No.

Please read this article.

Shotgun Home Defense Ammunition

Birdshot, because of its small size, does not have the mass and sectional density to penetrate deeply enough to reliably reach and damage critical blood distribution organs. Although birdshot can destroy a great volume of tissue at close range, the permanent crush cavity is usually less than 6 inches deep, and this is not deep enough to reliably include the heart or great blood vessels of the abdomen. A gruesome, shallow wound in the torso does not guarantee a quick stop, especially if the bad guy is chemically intoxicated or psychotic. If the tissue crushed by the pellets does not include a vital cardiovascular structure there's no reason for it to be an effective wound.

[East_TN_Patriot]

I would go with a Remington 870. It has been the standard issue shotgun for police agencies for decades. It's rugged, easy to field strip and maintain, there are plenty of parts and accessories out there, and they are reliable. Get an 18" barrel for home defense and buy a longer barrel for sport shooting. Some 870 packages have included both barrels. A Mossberg is a close second place choice for me. I've owned both and still own the 870. Load it with 00 buckshot and you are good to go for a defense shotty.

[Guest capt usa]

I would go with a Remington 870. It has been the standard issue shotgun for police agencies for decades. It's rugged, easy to field strip and maintain, there are plenty of parts and accessories out there, and they are reliable. Get an 18" barrel for home defense and buy a longer barrel for sport shooting. Some 870 packages have included both barrels. A Mossberg is a close second place choice for me. I've owned both and still own the 870. Load it with 00 buckshot and you are good to go for a defense shotty.

This is good advice, one of my sons has a Remington 870 and the other a Mossberg 500 (both in 20 ga youth models). They are both good but I think the 870 may be a little more popular.

[MarkInNashville]

When I joined the US Navy (those many years ago) standard issue was a Remington 870 and a few years latter it was the Mossburg 500. I was lately told by a former Gunner's Mate not to long ago that the main reason the Navy changed to the Mossburg was because the safety was on the top\rear of the receiver (verses behind the trigger guard) and thus more easy to see. Both are good weapons and will do an excellent job for home defense.

At the same time if the SHF it wouldn't bother me 1 iotia to use my 65 year old Browning Auto 5 filled with bird shot.

[TN_Hiker]

Very fuzzy memory... thank goodness for google

Wouldn't you want to use something like this instead of just bird shot?

http://www.winchester.com/Products/New-Products/Pages/pdx1-410.aspx

Seems like that would put a hurting on someone. I honestly never saw this gun as a home defense type firearm but maybe something you'd use at extreme close ranges, like a firearm to keep in you car if someone was attempting to attack you while you were in it.

[Jonnin]

Sorry was an attempt at adding humor...

What's a good in between then? I do like shooting Skeet sometimes. Would those two do okay for both?

What's a decent semi auto?

I have a remington 1100, a plastic stock gun that cost me like 250 used and that included 2 barrels and a cheap red dot sight on one of em. The classic browning A5 is the original design I think and like the 1911 every company since 1900 or so has copied it, and unless you find some really bad off brand junker most of these guns are reliable. I also had several of the brownings (downsized to just 1 of them now) but unless you find one that looks like it was dragged behind a truck it will be out of your price range. The only real issue with them is the rock bottom cheapest ammo may not cycle the action on some guns, as the cheap ammo is often weaker. The RIO brand is fairly cheap and fairly stout, and a good place to start.

By the way, they work almost the exact same as a pump. When you strip an A5 type design, you can actually "pump" the gun by grabbing the internals. The design is brilliant, because it is very simple.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Jonnin

[Guest vthokies03]

I have an 1187, it is not a HD gun. I use it for hunting and clay targets. It has problems shooting light loads. I shoot Rio most of the time. It would not cycle the 1 1/8 shot, 3 dram, 1200 fps shells, however the 1 1/8 shot, 3 1/4 dram, 1280 fps cycled just fine.

You just need to try different loads in a shotgun the same way you try different loads for your handgun or rifle.

My HD gun is a 870, and the only thing i have found it wont feed is the Aguila mini shells.

[Jonnin]

I would agree to that, you probably want a 1 oz payload at 1300 fps as a rough reference point for what will cycle the majority of these guns. I had mine worked on by a gunsmith to expand the gas hole in the barrel, allowing the weaker ammo to work, so I can get away with under 1200 FPS in mine at the expense of harsh recoil when I use stronger loads.