New to casting need Load data for Lyman #356637

[Guest pfries]

OK, here is the run down.

I got my hands on a smelting set up dirt-cheap.

Wenesco MPM20 (with ceralac (spelling coating)

Ladles and accessories

120 lbs. antimonious lead. (BHN 18)

Two ingot molds

In addition, three casting molds (9mm, .40, .45)

All for $100

I have cast 9mm with the Lyman 356637 mold and they are dropping at 152 grain +/- .3

I am not finding load data in my books for this; I want to stay with the titegoup I was using. I do realize this powder is probably a bit fast for a heavy 9mm load.

By my math, it looks like I need to hit 26,000-cup pressure to reduce leading.

Does anyone have load data and OAl for this or am I SOL and need to work up very slow?

Thanks in advance

Pat

[Caster]

I know people do it, but the problem with that boolit is going to be seating depth. To get it to under max OAL it will have to be seated rather deep. That's jacks pressures. I tried to get the tech guys at Accurate Powders to give me a starting point for a 158g RN I cast and they wouldn't touch it. Said it didn't leave enough space in the case.

Another thing to consider depending on you brass's internal geometry is the fact that the case tapers slightly the deeper you get. If you shove it in far enough, you're going to start sizing the boolit down and/or create a bulge in the case that you could only iron out with a Lee factory crimp die which will absolutely size it down. Then you'll be frustrated by leading and wonder where it's coming from.

I'm not saying abandon hope, but I once wanted to do something similar and gave up for the above reasons. I was hoping to make some subsonic loads with the heavier boolit that would still cycle the action.

[Guest pfries]

For the price, I could not say no even if I have to pitch the molds. With the research I had done, I was looking to buy a mold to drop at around 122 to 125 but hey, practice makes perfect. I smoked the mold up with acetylene and it dropped great. Thanks for the input but I am not ready to give up yet…. LOL

[Caster]

No, no and please keep me apprised of you progress. You're right, for C-note, you stole that stuff. AND, don't you DARE pitch that mold:)

Tell you what, I'll head over to Cast Boolits - Dedicated To The World Of Cast Bullets! where I am a member and ask to see those guys say. When it comes to lead, there is NO place on the internet with a greater wealth of knowledge.

Edit * Click here and sift through these search results. There is load data here.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/search.php?searchid=3734304

Edited January 8, 2012 by Caster

[Caster]

Hey wait a minute! Is this the devastator hollow point mold? I had one of those a while back. Forgot all about it. I hated it.

[Guest pfries]

No its not its the RNFP

[Caster]

Okay, well then you'll still find useful info via the link I gave you....I hope.

[Guest pfries]

looking throgh it now, thanks

[I_Like_Pie]

I would see if someone would trade that mold with you for a 125 on one of the casting sites....125 is easy peasy to load and cast for. Anything over 150 - not so much!!!

[lowery100]

That mold should drop at 147 gr, so your lead alloy is a bit heavy. You should be able to use starting data for that bullet weight. My Lyman manual lists 3.2gr of Unique as a starting load. I would start there and look for any pressure signs. If you are going to start casting, I would suggest getting a couple of Lyman loading manuals. They have the best data for cast bullets.

[Guest pfries]

Well I loaded a couple at 3.2 and 1.12 OAL (could come up to 1.15 max) no crimp. Primers flattened and no ridges around firing pin strike... I would dare say hot…. Brass was ok this was out of my XD9.

Some of the stuff I found after the fact is stating 2.5 min to 2.8 grain max I might need to look at a different powder that seems quite light.

There was no leading noticed after the 5 rounds and still a bit of smoke (might be too fast for the lube?)

They did shoot POA at 25 yards.

[lowery100]

What powder are you using? At 3.2 gr. of Unique (starting charge,3.8 max) according to Lyman, pressure only shows 25,600 which is fairly low, that is at 1.058 OAL. I am surprised you saw signs of high pressure. You would not likely see signs of leading after only 5 rounds unless the lead was way soft. As far as the smoke, that is a by product of cast lead, along with a little more grime in your gun. Cast from wheel weights are all I shoot in my 9mm,38/357 & 45.

[Guest pfries]

I am using TiteGroup, and as I said earlier " I do realize this powder is probably a bit fast for a heavy 9mm load" I do have Lymans 44th and 48th edition ironicaly the 48th edition has it but not for titegroup on any of the loads.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Does it show titegroup for any jacketed 147 gn bullets?

For curiosity was looking in the Ramshot data, which has four different powder loads for both a sierra 147 gn flat point fmj, and four different powder loads (same powders) for 147 gn lead round nose.

The OAL was different of course between the sierra flat point and the lead round nose, but surprisingly the min and max powder weights were identical between the two bullets. For example the min and max for zip was the same for both bullets, the min and max for True Blue was the same for both bullets, etc. Ramshot doesn't just duplicate min and max weights willy-nilly between different kinds of bullets, so it was interesting.

In addition, at least from internet pictures it looks like the shape of your bullet mold is very similar to the shape of a Sierra jacketed flat point.

Was just thinking, maybe if you could find a Sierra JFP load for TiteGroup somewhere, then maybe it would not be too awfully dangerous to start with the listed OAL and min charge?

[Guest pfries]

So far this is all I have found for the mold and titegroup , no OAL

147gr flat point is:

Titegroup Min--- 2.5 gr----870fps Max---2.8----943 fps

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hi PFries

I was remembering wrong. The jacketed flat point listed in the Ramshot data is a 147gn Speer TMJFN, not Sierra.

However, I did look up pictures of your lead bullet and the Speer earlier today, and they look very similar. You could google and see what you think.

Anyway, for all four powders in the Ramshot data, for what its worth, it lists the 147gn Speer as having an OAL of 1.130"

Ramshot Competition is the fastest of the four powders which Ramshot Lists, number 16 on a burn rate chart, and the titegroup is number 10.

[Guest pfries]

Yeah Caster stated he gave up on the 147 grain mold... guess I'm the new sucker in town and I don't give up easy.

I have a feeling I will end up picking up a slower powder, I am going to try tommorow with 2.5,2.6 ect and a few depths I will report back.

And thanks for all the input and links guys I apreciate it.

Pat

[lowery100]

I think if you try another powder you will find a solution. Tightgroup is not a very forgiving powder, very small variance in the charge. You can go from min. charge 2.5 to max. at 2.8. Were I you I'd try either Unique, WSF or HS-6(all versatile powders in other calibers) . Lyman has a good bit of data for this bullet. All the powders listed still have a relatively small variance from min.-max.

[dlm37015]

thats the mould i use for my mp 5. i have found tite-group burns too hot and messes up thr base of the bullet so i changed to unique with it

[Caster]

thats the mould i use for my mp 5. i have found tite-group burns too hot and messes up thr base of the bullet so i changed to unique with it

Unique in an MP5? Awesome! I bet the smoke trail looks cool as heck! I've used Unique in 9mm too, I always get the nicest little cloud in front of me.

[Guest pfries]

Well at 2.6 OAl 1.35 cycles, well no signs of over pressure but far from, accurate IMO, and I do not consider myself a novice shot, but could barely hold 4” at 15 yards… not what I am after. I am going to try a few more but it is looking like I will need another powder. Tolerances need a little forgiveness even for target.