What would the People really do?

[jtmaze]

I already have a great 10000 acre forest picked out. Come get me.

JTM🔫

Sent from my iPhone

[Guest ThePunisher]

I already have a great 10000 acre forest picked out. Come get me.

JTM

Sent from my iPhone

Don't you know they've got those infrared spotting helicopters!

[Worriedman]

The great thing about this country is that we are not ruled by one person. This country is ran by the president, the houses and the courts.

When one steps out of line, the others can step in to un-do whatever has been done. And if need be, remove those responsible.

As I suppose in the case of Andrew Jackson and the Supreme Court, where Jackson said: "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!", the Court's opinion was moot because it had no power to enforce its edict. The President has the Dept. of Justice, and is the Commander and Chief of the Armed Forces, the IRS and anymore, the armed wing of the Dept. of Education.

Who is the SCOTUS and Congress going to call, Ghostbusters?

[Oh Shoot]

Yes please indulge us...

Okay okay, y'all...mainly had to stop and do something else, didn't have time, is all....

My take is that the whole concept of any kind of universal "martial" takeover in the USA is impossible because of simple logistics and supply and demand.

First of all, as long as things are still kicking along short of total economic meltdown, even during a long gray Soviet type depression where at least most folks are still getting fed and watered, what's the point? What does martial law accomplish? What can a military junta really control in the US? It could only disrupt or stop the production of goods and services and transportation. You'd have to have a practically one on one relationship between guards and workers to keep the production flowing. Unless snuffing the majority of the population is the goal, I can see no real reason to want to control the society with a military force. Hell, the pols couldn't gain as much as they can legally steal now.

Second, if outright EOTWAWKI happens, it's pretty obvious that nationwide martial rule just ain't happening. Since it's obvious that FEMA and every other fed agency combined can't even handle a regional crisis, just how are they going to mobilize the millions of city, county, and state LEOs and National Guard in this country to ride herd on 300,000 folks? Just assuming the premise that the majority of military/LEO actually would bear arms against their countrymen (almost certainly untenable - remember, the military and police are YOU), how does the fed support them (YOU)? The USD would be worthless, so money would be no incentive. Not even what gold is stashed would make a dent, assuming anybody cares about it until possibly years down the road anyway. Not only could the fed not feed the masses, it couldn't even feed its "army" for any longer than the gummit storehouses hold out -- and it's obvious they couldn't distribute it either. Nor could they pay or feed the Blue Helmets or other mercenary force from the outside. Any outside force they could somehow induce to control the citizenry would also simply take over the existing junta too, as their only incentive to "help" would be for conquest.

It seems to me that if things get bad enough, the more likely scenario for a martial society would be the rise of a citizen militia, storming Washington ala the French Revolution. We'd like to think that would translate to a fresh start on sane US Constitutional rule, but the sad fact is that likely it would be a military type rule for awhile, if not period. The fact that this "army" began as you and me wouldn't necessarily make it any less militarily regimented by the time the last pol was hung on the steps of the Capitol.

None of this is to say that the current gradual and continual slide to the left won't eventually make us essentially a socialist or even communist nation, but it can be done without (at least all at once) mass bloodshed. Death of a thousand small cuts to our freedoms, and certainly gun confiscation through attrition type laws will be necessary. But it will take another generation or two, and will be handled predominately with pens rather than government aimed ARs.

I do believe in the likelihood of a Great Die Off, but it will be from the chaos of a financial meltdown, really the result of what I call Environmental Economics, the upside down pyramid of earth resources vs. population. And it can be just about as effective as any of the other dire scenarios folks postulate. But the Boys in Washington, nor their army, certainly aren't in control of things now and won't be much of a factor when it happens, and likely won't be a factor in the long aftermath.

- OS

[Worriedman]

What would the people do?

:panic:

What would a CITIZEN [as defined by our founding fathers] do?

The thing I find laughable, is all the armchair warriors and couch commandos who can talk [type] big talk while their fat ___ is sitting in their mom's basement. The scene will be bloody for fact and for certain, but the turnout will not be as high as the number of [virtual] fists in the air we see on the interwebz.

The sheeple here in the United States of Amerika are a joke. They've shown their worth as a whole in recent years. The idea of tens of thousands of convicted, righteous gun owners rising up in this country is an even bigger joke. Our system is a drug to which there is no methadone and withdrawals are 99% fatal. As disgruntled as the people are as a whole, once they realize that they'll lose internet, cable and fast food they will fall to their knees penitently begging forgiveness. If the "occupy" morons could get a taste of what they are asking for, they'd be living proof. I'm sorry if this hurts feeling, but go into any major city and the people there are not even human anymore. They are parasitic meat droids slaved to the "system" that supports them. Ohh it's true the ensuing chaos will be cataclysmic but I wonder if most people are right in what direction they think it will go. I think not.

The hug and hold warm hearted brotherly love everyone displayed after 9/11 won't be on the menu of the day. Katrina, by comparison to a major nationwide collapse, was small and insignificant. The people there showed exactly what the sheeple here will do. Mindless animals. Imagine that playing in a theatre near you, from coast to coast.

Have to admit I agree. Can't get the sheeple motivated to write a letter to their State congresscriters to put pressure to move back to Constitutional law with respect to firearms issues, they are not going to jump into a firefight to save their guns from confiscation. But then, they will not have to, the Government will not go door to door, they will simply cut off entitlements, power, gasoline, access to health care till the people give in.

[Oh Shoot]

.... But then, they will not have to, the Government will not go door to door, they will simply cut off entitlements, power, gasoline, access to health care till the people give in.

You really believe the gummit thinks it can achieve some socialist goal by killing millions of Americans without sparking mass armed resistance? You don't think at the least, that the 535 members of the House/Senate, who have homes and families out in the general populace, might not be just a tad nervous about doing that?

- OS

[Caster]

A Great Die Off??? Boy, that can be interpreted a few ways. AGDO could very well be our destruction. AGDO of people who even give a crap about 2A rights. I have heard and talked to people in the [roughly] 16-25 year old age group. For the most part, they don't care. I can't tell you how many eighteen to twenty year old boys I have talked to that will tell you they don't care what happens, they don't care about rights or freedom, they just want to get high and find the first whore to open her legs. Their mind is poisoned by the program they are receiving through their devices. They can't carry on a civil conversation what for punching buttons. What do they care what he government does? They have Big Macs and online multi player. I give a blanket exemption to the children of TGO, but on the whole, the young people of this country are dumber than a bag hammers and they know and they don't care. They are useless [as they are] and a waste of resources they consume. BUT, I don't blame them. It's the participation trophy, dirty tree huggin hippy scum parents of theirs.

Yep, Ohshoot, your words are prophetic old buddy. A great die off of testicular fortitude and conviction will leave the country resting with a generation of Matrix batteries. Why would the left seek a physical confrontation when they could patiently wait for us to die off of natural causes?

[strickj]

As I suppose in the case of Andrew Jackson and the Supreme Court, where Jackson said: "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it!", the Court's opinion was moot because it had no power to enforce its edict. The President has the Dept. of Justice, and is the Commander and Chief of the Armed Forces, the IRS and anymore, the armed wing of the Dept. of Education.

Who is the SCOTUS and Congress going to call, Ghostbusters?

The president does not have the power to activate the military. He only has the power to command them once activated by congress. saying the pres can use the military to take our guns is getting into the conspiracy lunacy area.

If the president orders a door to door gun collection, congress has the power to sue him to halt the order and\or remove him from power.

It takes two keys to turn the locks. One of those keys is held by 535 members. And the courts are there to decide if the keys can be turned if there's a disagreement between the key holders.

[TMF]

There are far too many members of the military and law enforcement who know nothing of the Constitution, who do not care to learn about the Constitution, and are simply willing to follow orders.

You ever serve in a combat arms military unit? If not, you don't know WTF you're talking about.

[Guest pfries]

You ever serve in a combat arms military unit? If not, you don't know WTF you're talking about.

I can say our best trained will stand for the people, and if need be train them to.

[Guest Baron]

Pointless Scenario

It is logistically and financially impossible, for at least the foreseeable future, to forcefully unarm the American public. It would take our current government at least 4 years just to argue about disposal and environmental impact.

Now, that is the country as a whole. A city like say, DC, could be disarmed in probably a matter of weeks.

Taxes, laws, bans and media perception, these are the boogiemen knocking at your door right now.

[JPR1959]

All I can say is "WOLVERINES"!!!! I can't believe no one posted that. I must be getting old.

[Glenn]

I don't think the Gov. would have to use force for most people. Just make the punishment for not turning in your guns big enough, and most people will give in. I don't think too many people would risk 20 years in jail to try to keep their guns. Some might bury their guns in the back yard or their guns got stolen, like mine, but you still don't have them if you need them if they are buried. It's also easy to say, but how many people are really willing to shoot it out with Federal law enforcement. You aren't going to win and the Gov will just lie about it a say you were a terrorist. Hell they already say that about us. Well, this kind of stuff will probably never happen. Taking away our guns would be as stupid as trying to take away our alcohol.

Glenn

[Caster]

Glenn is pretty close. They can just make the penalties harsh enough and the rewards for tattle tales great enough. Witch burnings!

Hunger is a powerful weapon too. Control the distribution of commercially produced food and people will acquiesce. Then the physical fighting can be localized to protecting supply trains.

People can make their brags and stash weapons and ammo, but everyone cannot grow enough food to feed their family. Large farms would be under tight grip too.

Like I said, anyone can talk tough, but when that belly starts to growl, or worse, when your child's belly starts to growl, desperation will change you reasoning.

[MattCary]

Taking away our guns would be as stupid as trying to take away our alcohol.

Glenn

Hmm, didn't they do that once already?

[mikegideon]

Hmm, didn't they do that once already?

They thought they did.

[hkgonra]

Great article on the subject from a man that lived through the crash in Argentina.

Predictions? Or near-certainties?

[eapking]

Those few LEOs doing the gun confiscations we know about during Katrina were quite lucky in who they chose; or chose because they knew they'd get no resistance.

- OS

Yeah, they hit all the rich mansions on higher ground. The same types of people who now will gladly pull the lever for Romney. They have no clue what might be heading down the pike for this country.

[jtmaze]

Don't you know they've got those infrared spotting helicopters!

Yeah all I have to do is be still they will just think it is a small patch of weed. Lol

JTM🔫

Sent from my iPhone

[Worriedman]

The president does not have the power to activate the military. He only has the power to command them once activated by congress. saying the pres can use the military to take our guns is getting into the conspiracy lunacy area.

If the president orders a door to door gun collection, congress has the power to sue him to halt the order and\or remove him from power.

It takes two keys to turn the locks. One of those keys is held by 535 members. And the courts are there to decide if the keys can be turned if there's a disagreement between the key holders.

All that protection from the 535 and SCOTUS worked real well for the Cherokee Nation did it not?

I was not intimating that the President would use the Armed Forces for gun confiscation, just that he has cards the Congress and Supreme Court does not. It has been applied before, (the Presidents superior place in power).

Did not see the present President asking Congress what they thought or wanted with respect to Libya.

Again, there will be no door to door collection, but make the pain big enough, and the sheeple will capitulate.

Then there is this:

Obama Using Unconstitutional Measures to Ban Guns*|*Godfather Politics

From the article: [Contained in that bill was a measure that forbids the National Institute of Health from using any of their funds to ‘advocate or promote gun control.’ When Obama signed the spending bill, he added a provision of his own which says, “I have advised Congress that I will not construe these provisions as preventing me from fulfilling my constitutional responsibility to recommend to the Congress’s consideration such measures as I shall judge necessary and expedient."]

Your keys are working well, huh? The Congress passes laws, he refuses to acknowledge the parts he does not like. I have seen nobody pushing back against him for such action, did not even make the drive by media.

[Guest pfries]

If you ask in all seriousness;

I have bought my place to retire and expire, I am an American, I believe in the constitution and bill of rights my ancestors put into effect on this great nation. I live by theses just rules and laws, if the government decides otherwise I cannot and will not follow. I have fought for my compatriots, and for what I believe in, and I will die by these same measures. If it comes by way of force, I have not brought the fight. The very fiber of what I believe in does not allow me to make choices for you, I have stood behind products from this belief that I do not personally prescribe to but because of these principles, I cannot make those choices for you. This is where I stand and will stand always. I do not have to like, agree with, or believe in what you do, I do have to accept that this is how an individual feels or believes and I will stand to make sure that you have the right to voice it, believe it, and try to further it within the confines of affording me the same privileges in my beliefs.

If the government tries to take, or to change this they have stepped on the very thing that built this, our great nation. I signed on at one point in my life to uphold this, not because I had to but because it is what I believe in. My signature is still on that document, and the day I stood and took my oath,I took it to heart, this was a decision that was easy for me. My views have not changed, I doubt at this point in my life they will. My family stands with me in my views, my oldest son took the same pledge with the same beliefs, and I am proud of that. My middle son hopes to do the same, What will I do, I will hold to my beliefs, I will fight for them against one man, many men, one government, an Army, but at the end of the day I will lay my head down at peace with myself.

Pat

Edited January 11, 2012 by pfries

[Sidinman]

I already have a great 10000 acre forest picked out. Come get me.

JTM

Sent from my iPhone

I know where it is.

[1pointofview]

Do you remember Katrina?

I was not there, but from what I remember, it was the people going crazy that prompted law enforcement to crack down. I know there were instances of some of the law going a little overboard but crazy times make people crazy

[Guest NYCrulesU]

Wolverines!

[Guest NYCrulesU]

WatchmenofTennessee.com / watchmenofamerica,com

Strength in numbers...........

Actually looks interesting. Will consider submitting an application.