Santorum and his views on our privacy rights

[Guest 6.8 AR]

We aren't supposed to run this country based on the concensus of the

moment. There is a Constitution to guide us. Concensus makes it a nation

of men and not laws. Concensus, public opinion and the like are being used

to destroy this country. That's the very thing we need to get away from.

More cake, please!

[mikegideon]

If a church decides it is okay for two gays, I don't care. The church can

do whatever it wants. Leave the government out of it.

If I believe in God, and I do, why do I have to believe God made them as

they are? I'd love to hear that argument again. That one has been going on

for a long time and it won't get resolved around here, I'll bet. BTW, I don't

have the answer, either. I accept them as they are. I don't get into the why.

I'll take a crack at this. You know me pretty well. I know a lot of gays, probably in a large part because of the business I'm in. I've known a bunch for over a decade and some are good friends. Because of all that exposure, I can at least have an educated opinion about it. I'm 100% convinced it isn't a choice, any more than skin color is a choice. I don't get it, and couldn't ever bring myself to do what they do. But, when you see someone that's very consistent in their behavior year after year, you give up trying to catch them in a lie. They are absolutely just dealing with what God gave them. Outside of that one thing, they're as normal (or abnormal) as anybody else.

[Mike.357]

I see gays and gay marriage as a live and let live thing. If being gay and married will make a person happy how does it hurt anyone else.

The .gov should stay out of it but unfortunately can't. The. Gov says it is illegal and must pass laws to make it legal.

There is nothing wrong with civil unions. But getting married covers that.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I'll take a crack at this. You know me pretty well. I know a lot of gays, probably in a large part because of the business I'm in. I've known a bunch for over a decade and some are good friends. Because of all that exposure, I can at least have an educated opinion about it. I'm 100% convinced it isn't a choice, any more than skin color is a choice. I don't get it, and couldn't ever bring myself to do what they do. But, when you see someone that's very consistent in their behavior year after year, you give up trying to catch them in a lie. They are absolutely just dealing with what God gave them. Outside of that one thing, they're as normal (or abnormal) as anybody else.

And I know a few like you mention. I know quite a few, also, but there are those

that profess a choice, also. Mike, you know any argument we could have would

be subjective on this, also could not be conclusive, but I understand where you

are coming from.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I see gays and gay marriage as a live and let live thing. If being gay and married will make a person happy how does it hurt anyone else.

The .gov should stay out of it but unfortunately can't. The. Gov says it is illegal and must pass laws to make it legal.

There is nothing wrong with civil unions. But getting married covers that.

Happiness is found by the individual. A marriage can't fix that. "The gov should stay out of but it

won't", is what it should be.

[mikegideon]

You do realize the context of RS original quote was against this very thing some were trying to get legalized with the sodomy issue?

It's about sex before the age of consent, not the mechanics. What makes YOUR religious beliefs any more enforcable by the government than any other set of beliefs?

[mav]

Marriage is a contract between to adults, made in front of loved ones.

That is totally false. Marriage has always been considered a contract between two adults (age has varied over the years) of the opposite sex. Geeze, you are showing that you are as intolerant as those you claim are intolerant. What I originally proposed is totally fair for everyone involved, and it essentially gets government out of the "marriage" business, but I guess that just isn't good enough is it? You have to force me and the majority of the country to accept your viewpoint. Sorry, but that will never happen.

Just to clarify, I may be a hypocrite, but I am not a homophobe. Personally, I don't care what a person's sexual orientation is. If a person chooses to be gay, great. I wish them all the best like I would any other individual. However, I am also a traditionalist, and hold to the traditional definition of marriage.

I don't know how this topic got diverted to a religious discussion, I thought we were talking about individual civil rights.

You guys can continue your religious discussion. I want no part of it.

[mikegideon]

And I know a few like you mention. I know quite a few, also, but there are those

that profess a choice, also. Mike, you know any argument we could have would

be subjective on this, also could not be conclusive, but I understand where you

are coming from.

I not saying that there aren't a few choices mixed in, especially with the girls. I'm saying it's the overwhelming majority.

[Mike.357]

And to the fact that marriage is between opposite sex was it not also illegal for blacks and whites to marry?

That changed, i will never see gays marrying as cheapening the sacrament.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

See what happens? Gays, blacks and whites. I've

even introduced hyenas into the mix(only for the

sake of keeping this trend from continuing).

mav used a word that needs to be considered:

tradition. Leave it alone! Let the gays get frilly

without trying to be included in a church

sacrament. This shouldn't be an issue. So,

why is it? Traditions are being broken down

to destroy a way of life for people who make

a choice between their God and them.

All this crap about gays is another way to

find victimhood. I'm tired of the modern use

of that word.

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[mikegideon]

And to the fact that marriage is between opposite sex was it not also illegal for blacks and whites to marry?

That changed, i will never see gays marrying as cheapening the sacrament.

And of equal importance... were some folks quoting scripture to fight the change?

[mikegideon]

See what happens? Gays, blacks and whites. I've

even introduced hyenas into the mix(only for the

sake of keeping this trend from continuing).

mav used a word that needs to be considered:

tradition. Leave it alone! Let the gays get frilly

without trying to be included in a church

sacrament. This shouldn't be an issue. So,

why is it? Traditions are being broken down

to destroy a way of life for people who make

a choice between their God and them.

All this crap about gays is another way to

find victimhood. I'm tired of the modern use

of that word.

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Huh? We're talking about laws that discriminate against a group. What "way of life" is being destroyed? The Dominant White Christian way of life?

[Mike.357]

Sorry if anything i wrote was taken personal, i was not throwing darts at anyone individually.

Discrimination pisses me off.

MikeG we know the answer to your question

[Guest Lester Weevils]

The gays I've known are no better or worse than anyone else. I'm squeamish and studiously avoid thinking about the bedroom mechanics involved. Yak.

Maybe they are similarly squeamish thinking about hetero bedroom mechanics.

Regardless, ain't none of my business what other consenting adults do. Ain't none of their business what I do, though at my age I don't do much.

[Jonnin]

This is why I do not like ANY of the goons running for the GOP this time around. I will vote for one of them because there is no real choice, but they all suck including the ones that dropped out. Half of them do not understand separation of church and state (which, even if not in the constitution, is a very important concept to our country), at least 2 of them think global warming (or cooling or climate change or whatever it is this week) is real, several of them are anti gun, at least 3 of them have no clue about how to fix the economy and/or manage foreign policy, and none of them are fit to lead the USA to greatness. At least one of them may be mentally unstable and one more may actually BE stupid (not just playing it up but actually not too bright).

[mav]

Sorry if anything i wrote was taken personal, i was not throwing darts at anyone individually.

Nothing taken personal on my end. I've been called much worse.

I think issues like these are perfect examples why the government needs to stay out of people's personal lives.

[Mike.357]

Once they lets gays marry then they can back the heck out.

[strickj]

what am I forcing on you? You can screw whatever you want, I don't care but when you take a tradition like marriage that's been around since earth and want to force me to change it to include whatever you're screwing, then I think it's time to take a stand.

Marriage hasn't been around sine earth.... unless the dinosaurs had church, too.

What are you forcing on me? I do not hold your thoughts on what marriage is. Yet, you want me and everyone else in this country to abide by your thoughts. That is what you are forcing.

Marriage is between you and your god. Marriage is not between me and your god. Or, you and my god. Would you like it if I demanded you follow the rules of my god?

[kieefer]

Marriage hasn't been around sine earth.... unless the dinosaurs had church, too.

What are you forcing on me? I do not hold your thoughts on what marriage is. Yet, you want me and everyone else in this country to abide by your thoughts. That is what you are forcing.

Marriage is between you and your god. Marriage is not between me and your god. Or, you and my god. Would you like it if I demanded you follow the rules of my god?

You left out the government, you, your god and your government. Since the government has their nose in it thanks to a number of reasons, mainly the one that AR mentioned, they want to change the definition to include....what? Then what will be next? Why is the left forcing me to accept something that I don't agree with? Why are they wanting to change the rule of law?

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people, some people seek to overturn and destroy these very foundations which society, government and religion rest. Some want us to be an atheist nation and this is the path to tyranny.

I've made my points. Believe what you want.

[Mike.357]

I am for liberty for all, if that makes me a leftist then so be it.

[mikegideon]

I am for liberty for all, if that makes me a leftist then so be it.

I saw it coming, ever since you started shooting that commie gun. We can mention guns, right?

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Huh? We're talking about laws that discriminate against a group. What "way of life" is being destroyed? The Dominant White Christian way of life?

So, what law are you referring to that discriminates

against a group. Gays want something from others.

Why does there have to be another law on the

books? What the Hell have I done to a gay. Do

you see?

I'm not discriminating against anyone. They

brought this to the forefront, just like the bra

burning feminists in the 60's and 70's.

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[Guest 6.8 AR]

I am for liberty for all, if that makes me a leftist then so be it.

I am, too. You're not a leftist, Mike. They aren't

for liberty.

Liberty isn't defined by passing laws to include

one group or another. I'm sorry about it someone

acts one way for whatever reason or another, but

you can't fix everything by passing laws. You

only get tyranny.

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[Guest Lester Weevils]

They brought this to the forefront, just like the bra burning feminists in the 60's and 70's.

For the record, I always approved of bra-burning though unfortunately nowadays the practice has been woefully neglected.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

There were some good features back then.

Touché, Lester:D

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