Remington's response to Walmart specific guns

[Lumber_Jack]

Remington sells crappy weapons. Take any new gun off the shelf and work the action.

Yet another unfounded, broad based, generalization.

Sent from my Mom's basement

[R1100R]

When the .17 HMR first came out the test platform was on a Marlin . Could not find one anywhere.

Went to the Walmart near FT Benning and ordered one and they had it in a week. At that time I didn't put any money down.

[mikegideon]

I smell a cover up by Remington.

BTW I wouldn't wipe my ass with a set of Michelin tires.

Sent from my Mom's basement

That's 'cause you probably got the chinese ones from Walmart. You need to get the good ones from a Michelin dealer

[mikegideon]

When the .17 HMR first came out the test platform was on a Marlin . Could not find one anywhere.

Went to the Walmart near FT Benning and ordered one and they had it in a week. At that time I didn't put any money down.

I bought my Marlin 917S at Guns and Leather. It's better than yours

[Smith]

Well somethings amiss. I'll leave the ammo thing alone but as far as the gun issue here is my experience with Remington. We had a shotgun brought in and the fellow wanted an aftermarket stock put on it. After seeing that the receiver would not line up with the stocks and that it was different from the other Remington's we had we called Remington. The lady on the phone asked for the serial number and when we started reading it to her she said, "Oh that's a Walmart model. It is different and won't take aftermarket parts. You have to go through Walmart to get them." That is what I know first hand. Maybe she was wrong and maybe we misunderstood but the reciever was different enough to not work with stocks made for Remingtons.

[JPR1959]

I do know that Wally World/Sam's Club do carry different models of televisions you can't find in other stores. Some of their model numbers are unique. I hate Wal Mart and I've seen them drive manufacturers out of business, but it is extremely hard for anyone to compete with their prices. They do have the cheapest ammo prices around, but I'd never buy a set of tires from them. I'll go to Discount Tire.

[Garufa]

Are you stating that the 870's (or whatever model) sold by Wal-Mart actually have different receivers or parts than those purchased anywhere else? That Remington actually has a seperate assembly line just to make Wal-Mart guns that have different enough tolerances to produce a "cheaper" product?

I'm sorry but that just doesn't make any sense.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Garufa

[Guest dubaholic2]

I smell a cover up by Remington.

BTW I wouldn't wipe my ass with a set of Michelin tires.

Sent from my Mom's basement

apparently since you live in your moms basement you dont have a car so you dont know a good thing. i guess you would rather have a set of turbo-tech's than a set of the best made, longest lasting tires made? i have had michelins on my truck, my jag, and currently on my bmw, and can tell you first hand that you cant buy a better set of tires. they last forever and grip like glue. you shouldnt down talk something you know nothing about. also, i dont know about the quality, but marlin made a 336 with a w designation that was only sold at walmart. im not saying thats good or bad, just stating a fact.

[Smith]

Are you stating that the 870's (or whatever model) sold by Wal-Mart actually have different receivers or parts than those purchased anywhere else? That Remington actually has a separate assembly line just to make Wal-Mart guns that have different enough tolerances to produce a "cheaper" product?

I'm sorry but that just doesn't make any sense.

Well, Remington and H&R are owned by the same parent company and the Pardner Pump is nearly identical to the 870 except the receiver is made from a different steel (arguably better) and the the receiver pins spacing is slightly different. Meaning side saddles don't work except without some minor modifications. Also the receiver buttstock "horseshoe" is slightly different. It is a little smaller and the Remington butt-stock will be wider than the receiver. They will fit with some dremel work but they are not direct fits. I imagine this is possibly what Remington was doing to meet the Walmart price points is relabeling Pardner type guns from China with the Remington 870 and thus the fitment issues. I would also guess that Walmart's new gun inventory will not be this way since they are starting over, but it would surprise me if it happens again. I also speculate that this is not Walmarts doing but rather Remington's and the other makers trying to viable meet Walmarts pricing requirements.

also, i don't know about the quality, but marlin made a 336 with a w designation that was only sold at Walmart. I'm not saying thats good or bad, just stating a fact.

While that was true the 336W is now distributed to everyone as a lower priced option. Probably due Walmart deciding to quit gun sales then start again. It is the same as the 336 CS with birch furniture, gold trigger, and no butt-pad.

[Garufa]

Well, Remington and H&R are owned by the same parent company and the Pardner Pump is nearly identical to the 870 except the receiver is made from a different steel (arguably better) and the the receiver pins spacing is slightly different. Meaning side saddles don't work except without some minor modifications. Also the receiver buttstock "horseshoe" is slightly different. It is a little smaller and the Remington butt-stock will be wider than the receiver. They will fit with some dremel work but they are not direct fits. I imagine this is possibly what Remington was doing to meet the Walmart price points is relabeling Pardner type guns from China with the Remington 870 and thus the fitment issues. I would also guess that Walmart's new gun inventory will not be this way since they are starting over, but it would surprise me if it happens again. I also speculate that this is not Walmarts doing but rather Remington's and the other makers trying to viable meet Walmarts pricing requirements.

That is a wild strech of the imagination. The H&R Pardner Pump is an 870 knock-off and better in my opinion that the 870 Express but Remington has nothing to do with it.

Some parts are interchangable but no one guarantees that. Some make it work, many don't.

[JGunner]

I'll throw in that I own a Marlin 60W that is from walmart ... I don't know if this specific model number was sold anywhere else. (I haven't really looked honestly).

I've shot the heck out of the thing and the only problem I've had is when I bent the recoil spring into a Z shape trying to put the thing back together one time. I have since ordered a new spring and the gun works great again

[Smith]

That is a wild strech of the imagination. The H&R Pardner Pump is an 870 knock-off and better in my opinion that the 870 Express but Remington has nothing to do with it.

Some parts are interchangable but no one guarantees that. Some make it work, many don't.

Imagination huh? I guess it is my imagination that Marlin bought the reconstituted H&R 1871 in 2000 and Remington bought Marlin in 2007 giving Remington control of H&R 1871. Cerebrus bought Remington which brought along Remington, Marlin, H&R 1871, and Bushmaster under the same roof. One of their tactics is to share manufacturing instead of having septate facilities. Kinda like when they brought the Marlin lever guns under the Remington facility to correct the QC issues Marlin was having. Ironically all these brands are the ones Walmart is selling....... Hmmm I guess my imagination is pretty good;)

[Guest]

BTW, I hate you walmart!

I've never understood this mentality..... you try to buy ammo in bulk to get the same ammo cheaper right? Just the same, Wal-mart offers you a lower price because they buy in bulk.

[Steelharp]

That's... like... wow... cerebral, dude.

[Oh Shoot]

Imagination huh? I guess it is my imagination that Marlin bought the reconstituted H&R 1871 in 2000 and Remington bought Marlin in 2007 giving Remington control of H&R 1871. Cerebrus bought Remington which brought along Remington, Marlin, H&R 1871, and Bushmaster under the same roof. One of their tactics is to share manufacturing instead of having septate facilities. Kinda like when they brought the Marlin lever guns under the Remington facility to correct the QC issues Marlin was having. Ironically all these brands are the ones Walmart is selling....... Hmmm I guess my imagination is pretty good;)

While you've got the Cerberus -> Freedom Group -> Remington -> Marlin -> H&R/NEF hierarchy about right (except for misspelling "Cerberus" ), I still don't buy the claim that Remington is using out of spec PRC made receivers for the Pardner on their Wally 870's. Their lawyers would shriek, false advertizing, false labeling, damaged rep, class actions, gawd knows what.

Though I can't refute the experience you claim, or what you say you were told by Rem CS, this just doesn't seem to be a known issue, and Lord knows stuff like gets spread around in a hurry among the gun world on the web. Hell, even absolutely erroneous stuff gets spread in a hurry, like Chinese made WWB, oops! -- so certainly something with real basis in fact like essentially fake 870's would get spread even faster.

For sure, most 870 models have fallen far from their previous standards for fit and finish, just like Ruger 10/22, Marlin lever guns, etc. to meet demand without raising price point significantly, but I just can't swallow that they aren't at least made to same basic dimensions as always.

- OS

[Deerbnb]

Does anyone know if Wally World can order from Remington's catalog, IE special orders?

I have asked my daughter who works there to find out but she has yet to do it. I sure as hell hope so and if they start selling decent Handguns I will need to buy a new safe!

my wife worked for Walmart several years ago and (at least our local store) had a special order gun catalog at the sporting goods desk. I recieved a nifty little Henry survival rifle for fathers day that year.

[Garufa]

I do hope you can find parts for it if repairs are ever needed. Mine came from Gander Mountain so I'm not too worried.

[RobertNashville]

I've never understood this mentality..... you try to buy ammo in bulk to get the same ammo cheaper right? Just the same, Wal-mart offers you a lower price because they buy in bulk.

Actually, WalMart offers a lower price because they treat their suppliers like s**t and no, that isn't just opinion on my part; I've seen what they do to their major suppliers up close and personal...dealing with WalMart is like trying to cuddle up to a rattle snake except the rattler isn't as underhanded.

[Smith]

While you've got the Cerberus -> Freedom Group -> Remington -> Marlin -> H&R/NEF hierarchy about right (except for misspelling "Cerberus" ), I still don't buy the claim that Remington is using out of spec PRC made receivers for the Pardner on their Wally 870's. Their lawyers would shriek, false advertizing, false labeling, damaged rep, class actions, gawd knows what.

Though I can't refute the experience you claim, or what you say you were told by Rem CS, this just doesn't seem to be a known issue, and Lord knows stuff like gets spread around in a hurry among the gun world on the web. Hell, even absolutely erroneous stuff gets spread in a hurry, like Chinese made WWB, oops! -- so certainly something with real basis in fact like essentially fake 870's would get spread even faster.

For sure, most 870 models have fallen far from their previous standards for fit and finish, just like Ruger 10/22, Marlin lever guns, etc. to meet demand without raising price point significantly, but I just can't swallow that they aren't at least made to same basic dimensions as always.

- OS

Look, I am far from a Walmart hater. I frankly love the place, especially since I come from the land of Walmart. Heck my family helped open the second Walmart ever and my great grandfather and grandfather were buddies with the late Sam and his wife. All I'm saying is I believe their former MO fit what we have been told and what I've laid out. I don't think it's some deep hidden conspiracy, just marketing issue that are unique to Walmart and something to be aware of. I also believe that the new guns they are selling are probably not from the former tact since it would take some time to get that going again and the are only jumping back into the game to capitalize on the massive market they realized they missed out on. I think it is a good thing to have Walmart back in the game.

BTW - there would be no fraud issues with Remington using receivers from a different factory. If that were they case nearly every 1911 manufacturer would be in lawsuits from Remsport, Armscor, and the like for using their frames without their names. Don't even get started on the AR market. It's not an uncommon practice in the firearms industry and I have no problem seeing Walmart use what everyone else uses.

[Oh Shoot]

....BTW - there would be no fraud issues with Remington using receivers from a different factory. If that were they case nearly every 1911 manufacturer would be in lawsuits from Remsport, Armscor, and the like for using their frames without their names. Don't even get started on the AR market. It's not an uncommon practice in the firearms industry and I have no problem seeing Walmart use what everyone else uses.

Well, that's a fair point, but if those endeavors were advertizing mil spec guns, and mil spec parts wouldn't fit them, fur would fly. And same would happen if Wally's 870 receivers wouldn't accept same part substitutions as Academy's, Dick's, Gander Mtn's, etc 870s.

- OS

[Garufa]

I would have no problem buying a gun from WalMart and have full confidence the product was actually made by the manufactuter stamped on the side of it and advertised by the store, and furthermore that it is, in fact, mechanically the same product that could be purchased elsewhere.

[SonnyCrockett]

buy your guns at guns stores ,walmart can kiss my arce

[tnhawk]

Well, I don't know what the gun industry does but I know for a fact the the Michelin tire you buy at Walmart and Sam's Club IS NOT the same Michelin you buy at a Michelin retail outlet. I would not use the word "factory seconds" but they are substandard to the regular Michelin line....Michelin builds a lower grade tire to keep a very comfortable Walmart contract. They are not junk mind you, but they are inferior to the pureblood line you buy in a Michelin outlet retailer....Likewise Goodyear does this. There are entire lines of Goodyear tires that money cannot buy from anywhere but Wally/Sam's.

BTW, I hate you walmart!

Goodyear and Michelin tires from Walmart/Sams have done a good job on my vehicles for over 25 years. The last Goodyear tires I purchased from Goodyear were defective and had to be replaced. BTW, the gasoline from Sams has run well in my cars and trucks for many years. It's refined in the same plant as the gasoline sold under several different names.

Don't buy your ammunition from Walmart, leave it there for me. All the ammunition I purchased from Walmart has "made in USA" on the box.

[Guest bkelm18]

Actually, WalMart offers a lower price because they treat their suppliers like s**t and no, that isn't just opinion on my part; I've seen what they do to their major suppliers up close and personal...dealing with WalMart is like trying to cuddle up to a rattle snake except the rattler isn't as underhanded.

And yet they still do business with Walmart.... If it was such an egregious process in which they made no money they would have stopped long ago or gone out of business. As long as it brings in the dough, I suspect the suppliers deal with it. So I can't really sympathize with them. In fact, I shop there a couple times a week, and amazingly I still support the local economy. Their employees aren't paid in coconuts.

[Guest Travtastik]

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/102/open_snapper.html

This was a article I seen when I was still selling lawn equipment. I try not to by anything from Walmart unless I have to. Anything big I have ever gotten there didn't work or stopped working in a week, so now I just go else where.