Could have been one of us

[BlackHawk93]

We've all talked about it... and we've all played it out in our heads how we would respond. Just one example of how things can go terribly wrong.

Report: Federal Agent May Have Been Fatally Shot By Friendly Fire At N.Y. Pharmacy | Fox News

[TMF]

A shame indeed. It's hard really to point fingers on this one. He was a LE agent himself; maybe not organizationally obligated to intervene but some could argue "ethically" obligated. The responding officer obviously interpreted the situation incorrectly, but when you only have a split second to make a decision stuff like this can happen.

[PC7]

When you say “could have been one of us†do you mean shooting the people struggling on the ground or do you mean being shot by the cops responding?

First, I would not shoot people struggling on the ground, if that is how it happened. As selfish as this sounds, I don’t carry a pistol to protect other people, I carry for me. The liability and consequences are too great to go interjecting myself in most situations involving others. I’m not a cop, I’m not out to protect and serve the public. Having said that, there are certain, clear cut situations I would intervene in, such as an active shooter situation.

Next, as far the cop shooting theATF agent, that is very sad and tragic. Unfortunately, it seems there is a pattern of this in New York. There was this case: Nassau cop shot dead by MTA officer in case of mistaken identity - NYPOST.com

And there are other cases as well,see the references at the bottom of this article: Killed Federal Agent Was Getting Dad's Cancer Meds | Fox News

These actions seem reckless at best and criminal at worst. I wonder if they will charge the shooter with manslaughter. If it was a private citizen as the shooter, do you think it is more likely he would be charged?

Lastly, if the national carry law is passed, I would NEVER carry in New York due to the risk of being shot at the sight of my pistol.

[peejman]

They shot two guys who were wrestling on the ground? Bizarre.

[bigwakes]

I think journalism as a whole is going down hill fast. My 5 year old could tell a better, more organized story. Looks like the officer shot both men on the ground fighting with each other right? IF the federal agent had fataly wounded the robber why would he be wrestling him. Sounds like there should be more details the AP should have included.

[walton6467]

As selfish as this sounds, I don’t carry a pistol to protect other people, I carry for me. The liability and consequences are too great to go interjecting myself in most situations involving others. I’m not a cop, I’m not out to protect and serve the public.

This +1

[BlackHawk93]

When you say “could have been one of us” do you mean shooting the people struggling on the ground or do you mean being shot by the cops responding?

How silly of me to think this could be self explanatory. If, as we all have talked about in these forums and amongst ourselves, we ever have to defend ourselves, upon the LEO arrival we could be mistaken for the bad guy and shot.

Im pretty confident in myself that I wouldn't be ignorant enough to shoot two people wrestling on the ground.

Edited January 4, 2012 by BlackHawk93

[Guest JeremyD901]

This is tragic anyway you look at it. To late to point fingers, what is done, is done. I'm not usually one to feel bad for the shooter but in this case I imagine he feels horrible. NYC is so scared of guns that I have to blame the politics. I think they should of been better trained and not freak out to the sight of a gun.

[gregintenn]

An LEO shot another LEO? Surely not!

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

As selfish as this sounds, I don’t carry a pistol to protect other people, I carry for me. The liability and consequences are too great to go interjecting myself in most situations involving others. I’m not a cop, I’m not out to protect and serve the public.

This +1

That +2.

I also dont carry a weapon to protect other people. Its called SELF defense for a reason. Everyone has the RIGHT (& I would argue obligation) to defend THEMSELVES. Of course I would protect my wife or family members/close friends that are with me, but everyone else is on their own. Let them call the cops on their cell phone & see how long it takes them to get there. I'm laying low or running away & being the best witness I can be, & thats it, unless the fight comes to me.

[TMF]

Well in this instance it was a LEO that intervened. I'm not going to risk life/injury protecting a private business, however, I'm also not going to stand by and let an innocent be killed/injured by a criminal.

At this point it is difficult to determine what exactly happened. The article might as well have been written in crayon since it leaves out any detail or explanation of what may have happened. I interpret it to be the ATF agent attempted to subdue the robber and was shot (along with the criminal) while scuffling on the ground. At this point, however, who knows? The AP needs to start vetting their stories before publishing them.

[Guest klwehunt]

In the same article there were several instances of LEO's in NY that had shot each other just because they see someone with a gun and don't bother to find out why.It seems that the folks in NY that CAN have a gun are about as smart as the people that don't want you to have a gun.

[diablo982]

In the same article there were several instances of LEO's in NY that had shot each other just because they see someone with a gun and don't bother to find out why.It seems that the folks in NY that CAN have a gun are about as smart as the people that don't want you to have a gun.

Yes, and Pat Tillman was mistakenly shot and killed by his fellow Army Rangers. Would you like to make the same comment about them too? Its very easy to monday morning QB when we weren't there.

[Guest klwehunt]

I don't think there is any comparison to accidently shooting someone in a war zone as shooting a citizen walking down the street on Longisland.The point i was trying to make was that the people in that area are so brainwashed about how evil the gun is they tend to shoot first and then they find out they have shot someone they should'nt have.Don't know a lot about the Tilman shooting and only know what news reports said about Longisland shootings.Didn't mean to step on any LEO's toes.

[Guest tommy62]

I have to agree on the poor writing. Getting to be the norm on web based media.

[TMF]

Not enough information to start condemning the actions of the responding officer(s). Some things are cut and dry, but in the heat of the moment mistakes can be made by even the best trained individuals. Maybe a 4th grader will write a follow up story and shed more light on the subject than what we have here.

[DaveTN]

I think the title fits; it could have been anyone of us.

It was a tragedy. Of course since Police Officers were involved rush to judgment and ridiculous claims about training will be made. I doubt anyone was overreacting because they saw a gun, or because they were in New York; this could have happened anywhere. They were reacting because they heard the commotion of an armed robbery and saw two men fighting with guns involved; a shot was fired. (This had to come from the victim’s gun, as the perp had a pellet gun).

The responding retired Officer shot the victim and moments later the off duty Officer that was with him; shot the perp.

I know this, three people responded to a deadly threat; three Police Officers that felt a duty to act. Say what you want about guns but it ended badly because guns were involved.

But it wasn’t because guns were involved or because three cops felt a need to act that caused the death of an innocent person. It was because James McGoey picked up a gun and decided to commit an armed robbery. He had done it before; this time it cost him his life. He had a long history of Pharmacy hold-ups; he shouldn’t have even been on the street.

As Police Officers we learned from officer involved shootings. As HCP holders we should do the same. It’s just a shame that we don’t get the details that Officers get.

Here’s part of what the victims brother had to say.

"We all know I could stand up here and talk for hours about John," he said. "Let us not forget others responded that day to stop a crime. Please remember, they have family, and acted as John did. However this turns out, I ask that we pray for them, too."

Sorrow, forgiveness at funeral for ATF agent killed by friendly fire during NY robbery - 1/6/2012 1:37:01 PM | Newser

[billyscott]

Thanks for the info Dave. It is a sad situation for everyone involved. And you're right, the question is, why was this perp even out on the street?

But we see it all the time.

[Guest klwehunt]

The news article that i read about the a.t.f. agent getting killed also had some other shootings that were similar in the same Longisland area cops shootin cops.I just think that all of the anti gun laws,news media,crime etc. makes people in some areas more paranoid about guns, more than they would say in the south.In the area around N.Y. city if you are caught with a hand gun you are in serious trouble.Personally i could't live there.

[hornett22]

I think the title fits; it could have been anyone of us.

It was a tragedy. Of course since Police Officers were involved rush to judgment and ridiculous claims about training will be made. I doubt anyone was overreacting because they saw a gun, or because they were in New York; this could have happened anywhere. They were reacting because they heard the commotion of an armed robbery and saw two men fighting with guns involved; a shot was fired. (This had to come from the victim’s gun, as the perp had a pellet gun).

The responding retired Officer shot the victim and moments later the off duty Officer that was with him; shot the perp.

I know this, three people responded to a deadly threat; three Police Officers that felt a duty to act. Say what you want about guns but it ended badly because guns were involved.

But it wasn’t because guns were involved or because three cops felt a need to act that caused the death of an innocent person. It was because James McGoey picked up a gun and decided to commit an armed robbery. He had done it before; this time it cost him his life. He had a long history of Pharmacy hold-ups; he shouldn’t have even been on the street.

As Police Officers we learned from officer involved shootings. As HCP holders we should do the same. It’s just a shame that we don’t get the details that Officers get.

Here’s part of what the victims brother had to say.

Sure would be nice if these crooked judges and DAs were held accountable.