Shooting lead bullets through after market barrels, or "Have Hoppe's, will clean."

[Guest odfanatic]

Hope everyone's family had a safe and wonderful Christmas, and I wish you all a safe and blessed New Year!

I did not see this topic addressed elsewhere; please forgive me if it is...

I'm going to shoot lead bullets in traditional rifled "drop-in" barrels using all of my Glocks (9mm, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP).

I need you guys to troubleshoot my reasoning for going this route and my projected cost break-down. Shoot holes (pun intended) in my idea and let me know if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I have posted links to online sources for reference.

Concept:

1) I am going to buy a drop-in Stormlake barrel for each of my Glocks specifically for this purpose. StormLake | Build Your Barrel. This represents about $175.00 per weapon and is part of the "start-up" costs. After these initial expenses, my recurring regular monthly shooting expenses will include bore solvent, lead bullets, primers and powder.

2) I have the brass, and I'm gathering more all the time...

3) In order to avoid Hazmat fees and additional shipping costs, primers and powder will be acquired at The Reloader's Bench (TRB) in Mt. Juliet, or a local alternative in the event TRB is out of stock.

4) I intend to shoot the lowest velocity recipes I can find for the selected bullets and monitor leading as I shoot. I will be shooting steel at home and paper punching at my local indoor range at various distances but not exceeding 65 feet (20 meters).

Using 9mm as an example the figures break down to this-

1) 1000 Lead 125 Grain 9mm Rounds from Missouri Bullet at military discount rate of 7.5% off that reduces or eliminates shipping costs- $55.04 Missouri Bullet Company

2) 1000 Small Pistol Primers- $34.00

3) 1lb. Winchester 231 Powder- $20.00

That's about $110.00 for 1000 rounds (11 cents a round) of safe and consistent shooting.

I don't mind the additional cleaning time or cost of a gallon jug of Hoppe's No. 9 bore solvent.

That's about $100.00 cheaper than any 9mm ammo I've found anywhere, online or local stores. Am I missing something here, or is this just not the greatest idea I've had since going to Army Officer Candidate School? (and yes, that's sarcasm.)

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hi Odfanatic

It doesn't sound like a bad plan.

Components were hard to come by a couple of years ago but at least temporarily they have got easier to find. A month ago MidwayUSA had Rainier 124 gn copper plated round nose 9mm on sale for I think $74 per thousand and I picked up a few thousand. They usually run a little more. Berrys and others also sell soft lead copper plated bullets.

Assuming 100 rounds on a range session, I'd be spending about $2 more than you on a range trip. Which is still about half the price of Wally World practice ammo.

I suppose copper plated soft lead bullets would work in a factory glock barrel, but dunno. Maybe not? The Rainiers don't leave much mess in my pistols. Doesn't seem any worse than jacketed ammo. I found a page on Rainier's web site saying not to use the copper plated bullets faster than (IIRC) about 1300 FPS, but the stated max charge velocity for the powder I use only runs em up near 1200 FPS, so for normal 124 gn 9mm loads it doesn't seem likely one could work up a practical load that would be too fast for the bullets?

I haven't shot much lead, and never reloaded any lead bullets. Have occasionally considered some hard-cast lead bullets, but never got around to it. I shot a case of 1000 commercial 9mm lead reloads a long time ago and it was a lot bigger cleaning chore. Dunno if those old rounds were hard or soft lead, and they were pretty hot reloads. It took a lot more cleaning than jacketed bullets. Maybe hard-cast at a lower velocity wouldn't have been so dirty.

If a steady supply of lead bullets was cheap enough, I wouldn't be against trying it. When I was shopping MidwayUSA last month, I looked at their lead bullets too, but all their in-stock lead bullets costed as much or more than the Rainiers. So I wasn't gonna pay as much or more just to have a bigger cleaning chore.

Some people seem to be better deal-hounds than me and manage to find better prices on either jacketed or lead.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Lester Weevils

[enfield]

I suggest you read MBC's document on cast bullet hardness. At low target velocities, soft (12 BHN) cast lead is recommended to avoid leading.

[Dolomite_supafly]

A couple of things.

I use Missouri bullets exclusively or at least I will until my supplies are up. After that I am going to start casting my own. They do charge shipping on all orders. I generally order 1,500 bullets at a time which is about every month to six weeks.

With Missouri 9mm brinnel 18 bullets I am getting leading. I would consider it a significant amount of leading. But the easiet way to remove it is to get a copper scrub pad and cut it in half. It will unroll some then take a piece of wire or string and fashion it so you can pull the copper scrubber through the bore. It takes about 5 pulls and all the lead is out. The scrubber should be hard to pull through. I would not worry about bore solvent. I haven't used anything but the copper scrubber since I started using cast bullets.

With cast bullets you need to get pressures up enough or you will have leading at the cahmber end of the barrel. But too fast and you will have leading at the muzzle end of the barrel. You need to either live with the leading or tweak the load to minimizeleading. For me I just shoot and clean the lead out.

You might also consider another powder being that you are a new to reloading. The difference between minimum and max charges is so small with 231 you might go over the max without noticing it. I have always liked Longshot or Power Pistol. They may not be as miserly as 231 but the chances of not noticing a double charge is nearly impossible. With Power Pistol it fills the case 1/2 way with a load that is more on the sedate side.

I would like to know the 7.5% discount code you are using. I know of the 5% code and I have even called and asked about military discounts. They said the 5% is the only discount they have.

Dolomite

[dlm37015]

imo even 18 bn i too hard for a 9mm bullet .i have mine cast at about 12-13 use them in several pistols and 2 sub guns with little or no leading

[Dolomite_supafly]

imo even 18 bn i too hard for a 9mm bullet .i have mine cast at about 12-13 use them in several pistols and 2 sub guns with little or no leading

That has been my observations as well.

Dolomite

[Jonnin]

thoughts....

1) thats a lot of money in barrels. Note that poly barrels shoot hard cast lead slugs just fine and the price difference is minor. Note that MBC produces hard cast, not pure lead, bullets. Their hardness varies some based off the caliber and designed use of the rounds.

4) glocks will not function on weak rounds. I worked out a great 9mm recipe for my beretta 92, ruger 89, couple of others, worked great. Glock would not cycle. Glock has springs designed for constant +P ammo use and needs pretty stout loads (compared to the starter loads in books) to even work at all, and a bit hotter still to never jam.

so my recommendation is to use the MBC bullets in your poly barrels, and start your starter loads at exactly 1/2 way between the max load and posted starter load.

While I sold my glocks, they never had a problem with hard cast MBC bullets and I also shoot their bullet in my makarov (also a poly barrel) with zero troubles. Thousands of rounds, no leading.

I second Dolomite on the powder, the hot hot powders are difficult to work with and will drive you nuts if you are trying to tweak a load unless you have high precision equipment. 0.1 of a grain is not much in a load that is using 7-8 grains of a weak powder. Its a much bigger difference in a 3 grain load.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Jonnin

[Dave Shooter]

To the OP,

Precision Delta sells 124 grain jacketed bullets for $79/k delivered to your door. If you're getting lead bullets for $55/k that is $24/k difference (leaving powder costs the same as that's too much public math for me). Sooo, you have to shoot 7k rounds to pay for each $175 barrel. You said you don't mind the extra clean up time.

On the other hand having two barrels per gun is that much more versatile and some folks really like the "handloading" aspect of finding the right combination of hardness of bullet and load.

BTW, I've run plated 147s through a Glock 9mm and they worked fine, actually more accurate than the one brand of jacketed 147s I tried.

Good Luck!

[LngRngShtr]

another 2 cent opinion,,

you don't want to get too slow with lead on steel they bounce after impact,.. fast lead "shatters" and is actually safer than slow target velocities just ask the steel shooters/IDPA/USPSA or 3-gunners I'm not sure what the cutoff point is velocity wise but have seen 148HBWC@ 750fps. bounce like rubber balls at 60 ft. I want to say even my lighter loads hovered around a 125 PF (so 1000 fps or so)

I don't know the hardness of my .38 Super bullets or my 10mm bullets (both out of Bar-Sto barrels) but at over 1200 fps I have very little leading,..somewhere out there on the WWW I read a bullet makers reasoning for different hardness for different applications and how they claim that when matched you get minimal leading however I lost that bookmark. maybe someone else has a link..

I am a fan of "try it" vs. listening to the regurgitated old saws found online and in some gun magazines.

looking forward to your results if you go forward on this project.

John

[Guest TresOsos]

Disclaimer: I don't own any Glocks and do not reload for Glocks, I do not own any (squat when you pee caliber guns(for those with a sense of humor)) 9mm guns or reload for them.

However I do own and load for .45acp. 5.2 grns of W231 w/winchester Large Pistol Primer out of a 5" barrel will give you an approximate 810fps with MBC Bullseye #1 200grn LSWC bullets. I have experinced very little leading with them and they splatter really nice on steel plates. Though this may not be approved by others on this board, at the end of my range session I fire off a couple of mags of factory ball ammo, this will for the most part get rid of any lead build up. I would caution doing this with Gloacks as I stated above I do not have any experience reloading for them. Many, many years ago when I shot a lot of revolvers, leading was an issue. The cylinder face would lead, the forcing cone area would build up lead and of course the there would be barrel leading. A couple of cylinders of full house Jacketed .357 loads after practice would get rid of 98% of the lead build up. So far this has worked with the semi-auto pistols I shoot, YMMV. Also I do not mind cleaning my guns and do not consider it a chore, use a good bore solvent and good quality bore brush, bronse not steel and that should be sufficent.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Thanks all for the info on the Missouri and Precision Delta bullets. Will try some in the future.

That Missouri FAQ on lead hardness and pressure is interesting. They sell several shapes in 9mm 124 gn. Wonder if the bullet shape would make any significant difference in leading? It looks like their round nose might have more surface touching the barrel, but maybe not. Or maybe it wouldn't matter significantly?

Is there any practical disadvantage to those FMJ Precision Delta bullets that have exposed lead on the rear of the bullet? Maybe at an indoor range there could be slightly more lead in the air, but other than that?

[Dave Shooter]

Is there any practical disadvantage to those FMJ Precision Delta bullets that have exposed lead on the rear of the bullet? Maybe at an indoor range there could be slightly more lead in the air, but other than that?

Don't shoot em in a compensated gun, the little bit of melting lead will clog up the comp eventually.

[I_Like_Pie]

Why not use plated? You won't have to spend $400 in aftermarket ballard rifled barrels and still save tons of money over factory loads. Berry's or any of the copper plated bullets are not much more than cast lead.

....also most lead bullets are too hard. There is a misnomer that lead bullets = leaded barrel. If that were the case then .22 lr firearms would be unshootable after a couple of boxes.

[Dolomite_supafly]

The reason why most cast bullets are so hard has nothing to do with actual performance. It has to do wtih appearance. No customer wants to open a box and see bullets with dings and dents all over them. This is the same reason why the lube used by commercial casters is almost always colored.

Dolomite