AR-15 Building Questions

[mikegideon]

I have used this method before and it seems like the standard that a lot of smiths use. About 1/2 the time using this method you also have to tweak your disconnect by removing material from the hook. And that often leaves it with very little engagement to hold the hammer back. It is a very, very fine line between safe and unsafe. And when tolerances stack against you it can be impssible to have a realiable trigger using this method. Yes you can have a slightly nicer trigger but at the cost of a gun that might double as time goes on. I found a better method that feels just as good, requires no "tweaking" of the disconnect, and it is reliable even with high round counts. But as I said I will not discuss it here.

The Giessle triggers have several models. The ones he has are the military models that are non adjustable. The reason? Because every "Joe" out there would be adjusting their own triggers in the field. These triggers are in issued guns being used overseas. The do make a fully adjustable one.

And while they are not Giessle for the money the improvement kits can't be beat. Coffee drinkers spend more a week on their coffee and readers of newspapers spend more a week on their papers. Hard to beat a safe, relaible, trigger upgrade for the cost.

Dolomite

On a regular semi-auto trigger job, you reduce the sear engagement, and then retime the disconnector. When it's done, those parts are unique. I had a trigger job done on my Mini 14 by Gun Doc. He's a great smith, and has a reputation as the best Mini 14 trigger guy on the planet. When I got it back, it had a light, crisp single stage feel. I was thrilled until I took it to the range, and found that it was doubling. Had to return it, and it came back as a dramatically improved 2 stage, and the doubling is gone. All of the adjustments were done by filing/stoning parts in the trigger group.

You pretty much HAVE to do it that way in a Mini because of Ruger's paranoid policy on FCG parts. On an AR, you can get one with screws. I have a cheesey (Jard) in my varmint AR that has a creepy 1 lb pull. It is barely OK, and WILL get replaced with better parts some day. No way I would have that thing in one of my 16" guns.

You can also reduce hammer spring tension, which relieves tension on the sear as well. I makes for a lighter pull, but also reduces the force on the firing pin and increases lock time. There is a safety margin built into hammer spring tension, so you can get away with some reduction.

Stock AR triggers suck, but they always work within the manufacturing tolerances used. An experienced guy can work within those sloppy tolerances and make major improvements. The other option is to replace the floppy parts with precision ones. Replacing the parts almost always costs more. It's also probably a little safer and reliable.

[wcsc12]

Man all this talk about triggers has me so confused. I honestly don't know what to buy now Well, I guess I'll get whatever trigger comes in whatever lower parts kit I buy and then buy a different trigger after that. Is there a decent trigger in the $50 price range?

I've got to afford that 20" Chrome lined 1/9 or 1/10 twist barrel afterall I also want that 13.2" Quad Picitinny rail hand guard to go on the front I just haven't decided on stainless steel or black and if I want a muzzlebrake/flash suppressor.

[mikegideon]

Man all this talk about triggers has me so confused. I honestly don't know what to buy now Well, I guess I'll get whatever trigger comes in whatever lower parts kit I buy and then buy a different trigger after that. Is there a decent trigger in the $50 price range?

THAT question is how trigger jobs got created . A stock AR trigger is decent by some standards. The $13 Dolomite kit makes it a lot better, and you install it yourself.

[wcsc12]

THAT question is how trigger jobs got created . A stock AR trigger is decent by some standards. The $13 Dolomite kit makes it a lot better, and you install it yourself.

Interesting...do you have it personally installed? How would you rate the improvement? Leaps and bounds or just noticeable to be better?

[mikegideon]

Interesting...do you have it personally installed? How would you rate the improvement? Leaps and bounds or just noticeable to be better?

I had it installed before I replaced it with a Geissele. Leaps and bounds??? I would have them in all my rifles if I was running stock triggers. It's worth more than what I paid. A screw for a Larue mount is probably 13 bucks. Welcome to the AR platform

[Dolomite_supafly]

ok, just asking a question. didn't mean to ruffle feathers.

No feathers ruffled.

It is just I have tried every trick in the book. It is possible to get a great, reliable trigger using the method you stated but hardly something a novice can take on.

This is how people experiment and learn. If no one questioned then we would still be living in caves cooking meat over an open fire. Hmm, I think it is about lunch time.

Dolomite

[Dolomite_supafly]

Interesting...do you have it personally installed? How would you rate the improvement? Leaps and bounds or just noticeable to be better?

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/long-guns/62488-dolomites-trigger-improvement-kit-review.html

Everything you need to know is in here.

Dolomite

[wcsc12]

I had it installed before I replaced it with a Geissele. Leaps and bounds??? I would have them in all my rifles if I was running stock triggers. It's worth more than what I paid. A screw for a Larue mount is probably 13 bucks. Welcome to the AR platform

You're making my pocket depressed Oh well, I'll just buy this sucker and give it a shot after I buy a lower parts kit. Although, realistically, I'm probably not going to finish this build before April or May anyway. I just want to make sure I have it finished before we go camping. Speaking of which, will definitely need to buy a rifle case at somepoint.

[mikegideon]

You're making my pocket depressed Oh well, I'll just buy this sucker and give it a shot after I buy a lower parts kit. Although, realistically, I'm probably not going to finish this build before April or May anyway. I just want to make sure I have it finished before we go camping. Speaking of which, will definitely need to buy a rifle case at somepoint.

You can always by a parts kit that includes an RRA 2 stage trigger. Those are real nice triggers for the money.

[tyrantrave]

Has anyone used a Daniel Defense LPK? I've heard the trigger in that is pretty good compared to other stock LPKs.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Has anyone used a Daniel Defense LPK? I've heard the trigger in that is pretty good compared to other stock LPKs.

How a factory style trigger is going to feel has more to do with tolerances between the LPK and the lower itself than anything else. They may stack for stack for or against you. I have had LPK's from the same lot installed in lowers from the same lot and some trigger pulls were horrendous while others I would have actually paid to have. It is because there is a certain amount of variance or tolerance that is allowed and still be within spec. It is these tolerances that determine how a factory trigger will feel.

Quality parts might have tighter tolerances whcih leads to a more consistant trigger pull between different guns but there is still going to be variations in how the trigger feels.

Now there are coatings like the Boron Nitride than can slick things up some but you are still dealing with a factory trigger setup. They might be smoother but they might also be very heavy. And because those factory triggers were designed to be robust and reliable as well as provide a long lifespan quality of the trigger pull wasn't a priority.

Dolomite

Edited December 29, 2011 by Dolomite_supafly

[Mike]

The trigger in my DD rifle is pretty good.

Mike

[R1100R]

Bill Springfield does great work on single stage triggers for the money. His prices include shipping. From 4 pound to 2.5 pound. He did miracles on a Hk 91 and a CETME trigger pack for me also.Bill Springfield - www.TriggerWork.net

[Guest nysos]

Bill Springfield does great work on single stage triggers for the money. His prices include shipping. From 4 pound to 2.5 pound. He did miracles on a Hk 91 and a CETME trigger pack for me also.Bill Springfield - www.TriggerWork.net

I would be weary of Bill Springfield's work.

CAUTION - Bill Springfield Trigger Work - Kentuckiana Firearms

[Dolomite_supafly]

Things like Bill had happen can happen from time to time but I have heard of problems with his work for at least 10 years. And it seems to be happening more and more often. Could just be the internet has become more popular but I suspect his biggest problem is he doesn't test fire the guns he works on. I also believe he is familiar with how a trigger works but not the nuances of certain triggers. He does know AR triggers but even then you hear of his work leaving his shop then doubling.

The most critical part of any type of work done to a firearm, no matter how small the modification, is it must be fired to ensure proper operation but most importantly safe operation. The lightest, nicest trigger isn't worth anything if it is unpredictable or unsafe.

Dolomite

[wcsc12]

I would be weary of Bill Springfield's work.

CAUTION - Bill Springfield Trigger Work - Kentuckiana Firearms

I can't wait to hold that AR of yours on Monday! I'm getting excited. I'm not even that pissed that Sig raised the bloody prices on my IOP accessories again

Apparently, my stripped lower just shipped today even though they stated they wouldn't be shipping anything until Jan 15th.

Edited December 31, 2011 by wcsc12

[tyrantrave]

Things like Bill had happen can happen from time to time but I have heard of problems with his work for at least 10 years. And it seems to be happening more and more often. Could just be the internet has become more popular but I suspect his biggest problem is he doesn't test fire the guns he works on. I also believe he is familiar with how a trigger works but not the nuances of certain triggers. He does know AR triggers but even then you hear of his work leaving his shop then doubling.

The most critical part of any type of work done to a firearm, no matter how small the modification, is it must be fired to ensure proper operation but most importantly safe operation. The lightest, nicest trigger isn't worth anything if it is unpredictable or unsafe.

Dolomite

Very good advice. Thank you.

[R1100R]

Things like Bill had happen can happen from time to time but I have heard of problems with his work for at least 10 years. And it seems to be happening more and more often. Could just be the internet has become more popular but I suspect his biggest problem is he doesn't test fire the guns he works on. I also believe he is familiar with how a trigger works but not the nuances of certain triggers. He does know AR triggers but even then you hear of his work leaving his shop then doubling.The most critical part of any type of work done to a firearm, no matter how small the modification, is it must be fired to ensure proper operation but most importantly safe operation. The lightest, nicest trigger isn't worth anything if it is unpredictable or unsafe. Dolomite

http://fnforum.net/geissele-super-scar-trigger-t26794.html Here's one Geisselle vs a Springfield

Heard and used are two different things. I have used Bill's work for years with no issues after thousands of round on different platforms. Hell,Google Geiselle Trigger problems and enjoy the read. All of them have problems from time to time. For $44.00 with return shipping for a 4 pound trigger is cheap. He even offers a money back guarentee. Plus he has done work for free on a pack I wanted upgraded. There are 100X more atta boy's out there for his work vs He suck's.

I have had worse service out of the local gunsmiths doing work and not one test fired the weapon. The internet and BS has caused alot of mis-information. There are a lot of good drop in parts out there and all of them have had issues from time to time. Most of it is user error.

Like Dolomite stated you never know with any of them unitll you shoot it. Safety in a big concern.BTW the RRA NM is a nice trigger for the money. Not slamming the Geisslee, they are great triggers.

I like a single stage because it is what I have to carry. I have a Sabre set and a LR-308 AP4 Set going out this next week to him. If the .308 doesn't work out I might have to try a Giesselle.

Edited December 31, 2011 by R1100R

[mikegideon]

I'm pretty big on reading reviews, mostly on Midway's site. No matter what product, there's almost always a little pile of haters at the bottom. There are even two one star reviews (out of 93) on the Jewell trigger for the Remington 700. THAT's the best trigger I own.

The Bill Springfield slam thread wasn't real believable. I don't like sending my guns anywhere, but probably wouldn't shy away from the trigger job itself.

In the single stage/ 2 stage debate, I was a single stage guy. Still am, except for my carbines. It's just personal preference.

[R1100R]

To the orginal OP, is this your first AR? If so try out the stock trigger. The last three PSA's I have built have had great stock trigger pulls.

All were built in PSA lowers. You can buy a low pack less Hammer/ Trigger group if you still want to go with non-milspec/stock.

Good luck with your build, be careful they multiply.

[Dolomite_supafly]

We have already made arrangements to improve his trigger. Because he is local he will be taken care of.

Dolomite

[R1100R]

We have already made arrangements to improve his trigger. Because he is local he will be taken care of.

Dolomite

It's good that he has someone local to give him a hand, hopefully this will work out and he will enjoy his new build.

[wcsc12]

To the orginal OP, is this your first AR? If so try out the stock trigger. The last three PSA's I have built have had great stock trigger pulls.

All were built in PSA lowers. You can buy a low pack less Hammer/ Trigger group if you still want to go with non-milspec/stock.

Good luck with your build, be careful they multiply.

Yes. Its my first but it seems I have a.few helpers.to let me know things and help with assembly. I know it will be an amazing gub

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