AR-15 Building Questions

[wcsc12]

Hi everyone.

As I am new to this I have a question about the lower parts kits. What's the best trigger for your AR-15? Single stage or two stage? Is it possible to mess with the trigger pull?

[leroy]

wcsc:_______________

When ya have time, run over to Predator Custom Shop and talk to Jim. They are open on wednesday thru saturday (...i think...). Website here:Predator Custom Shop . They will probably have some stuff layin around that you can try. By the way, they are on vacation this week. Will be back on Jan. 3 per their note on the webpage. As to your question: i've got two ars. They have stock (...but worked on a bit...) triggers and hammers in them. They work pretty well for me.

leroy

[mikegideon]

I have two Geissele SSA's, and one SSAE. I love them. They're 2 stage. They're not cheap. A lot of folks, including me, think they're the best.

Geissele Automatics - Quality Triggers for the Warfighter and Competitor

[peejman]

Single stage vs. two stage is personal preference. It can also vary depending on the intended use of the rifle. For target shooting, I like a two stage. For something like 3 gun, I think single stage is better.

It is possible to adjust the trigger pull, though you can ruin one pretty easily if you don't know what you're doing. Do a little searching here, there's lots of info. I'm sure our resident expert will appear shortly.

[mikegideon]

A two stage needs to be light enough that you can slap it for rapid fire. A stock AR trigger is supposed to be a single stage, but is almost a 2 stage in practice because of the takeup. I hate the stock AR trigger. That's why I have 4 of them in plastic bags.

[Dolomite_supafly]

A single stage is going to feel like a bolt action trigger. It will feel heavier than a two stage but it breaks cleaner with less movement overall movement. While a two stage is going to feel lighter because of the amount of travel it has in it. But it definitely feels lighter.

As others have said go to Predator and ask to pull the trigger on a nice single stage and a two stage.

I personally like a tuned single stage over a two stage. And it is all about preference, not performance.

There are other ways to improve a single stage as well.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

I still want to try a Dolomite kit on one of my geissele triggers. One of these days...

[wcsc12]

wcsc:_______________

When ya have time, run over to Predator Custom Shop and talk to Jim. They are open on wednesday thru saturday (...i think...). Website here:Predator Custom Shop . They will probably have some stuff layin around that you can try. By the way, they are on vacation this week. Will be back on Jan. 3 per their note on the webpage. As to your question: i've got two ars. They have stock (...but worked on a bit...) triggers and hammers in them. They work pretty well for me.

leroy

Wow. Thanks for all the helpful replies. I'll go down there on Monday then

[Dolomite_supafly]

I still want to try a Dolomite kit on one of my geissele triggers. One of these days...

It isn't going to miracle itself to you.

I need your address or I promise I'll send it to Okey.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

It isn't going to miracle itself to you.

I need your address or I promise I'll send it to Okey.

Dolomite

I already have a couple.

[dlm37015]

I have two Geissele SSA's, and one SSAE. I love them. They're 2 stage. They're not cheap. A lot of folks, including me, think they're the best.

Geissele Automatics - Quality Triggers for the Warfighter and Competitor

he is right

[wcsc12]

he is right

Wow...$165 for a trigger...okay. I may just go with the stock trigger. I mean...it can't be that bad.

[Guest HCRoadie]

Wow...$165 for a trigger...okay. I may just go with the stock trigger. I mean...it can't be that bad.

Yes it can be THAT bad. Especially if you get spoiled on a more refined trigger. I have Timney units, which are single stage, on all three of my ARs. They were around $125 when I got them a few years ago.

[RWF]

Yes it can be THAT bad. Especially if you get spoiled on a more refined trigger. I have Timney units, which are single stage, on all three of my ARs. They were around $125 when I got them a few years ago.

+1 yes they can. wilson combat TTU or JP

[RWF]

It isn't going to miracle itself to you.

I need your address or I promise I'll send it to Okey.

Dolomite

a Dolomite question. why would mike need one of your trigger kits? the ones that he has should already have that adjustment. this my mine question with all the talk about your kits, how come or as it seems to me, no one has talked about finishing what you started with your kit. because to get the most out your kit why won't people finish it up my removing material from the trigger bar this varys on each job but 25-50 thousand would make the trigger much better yet. i have seen some done with all factory parts that about a pound pull and only had 1/16" total movement. like i said all factory parts and springs.

just wondering.

[wcsc12]

a Dolomite question. why would mike need one of your trigger kits? the ones that he has should already have that adjustment. this my mine question with all the talk about your kits, how come or as it seems to me, no one has talked about finishing what you started with your kit. because to get the most out your kit why won't people finish it up my removing material from the trigger bar this varys on each job but 25-50 thousand would make the trigger much better yet. i have seen some done with all factory parts that about a pound pull and only had 1/16" total movement. like i said all factory parts and springs.

just wondering.

That sounds amazing. I want that except with 2lbs pull and maybe 1/8" movement.

[PolePosition]

I like my Wilson Combat TTU. Very crisp and no takeup or overtravel. Like somebody else earlier said, it is much like a bolt gun trigger.

[mikegideon]

a Dolomite question. why would mike need one of your trigger kits? the ones that he has should already have that adjustment. this my mine question with all the talk about your kits, how come or as it seems to me, no one has talked about finishing what you started with your kit. because to get the most out your kit why won't people finish it up my removing material from the trigger bar this varys on each job but 25-50 thousand would make the trigger much better yet. i have seen some done with all factory parts that about a pound pull and only had 1/16" total movement. like i said all factory parts and springs.

just wondering.

You can shorten the first stage travel. The Geissele SSA triggers aren't adjustable. They're combat triggers. They make adjustable ones for competition.

[Dolomite_supafly]

a Dolomite question. why would mike need one of your trigger kits? the ones that he has should already have that adjustment. this my mine question with all the talk about your kits, how come or as it seems to me, no one has talked about finishing what you started with your kit. because to get the most out your kit why won't people finish it up my removing material from the trigger bar this varys on each job but 25-50 thousand would make the trigger much better yet. i have seen some done with all factory parts that about a pound pull and only had 1/16" total movement. like i said all factory parts and springs.

just wondering.

Mike has it in hand and he knows how or if it can help him, but I suspect it can. It does help RRA two stage triggers as well as most other two stage triggers. If you have trigger movement when your gun is on safe the kits will improve your trigger.

I would like to know what AR has a trigger bar? I know there is no such thing in a factory trigger. There are only 3 parts to a AR trigger and none of them are called a bar.

Tweaking trigger, or finishing them as you say, is not something everybody can or is willing to do. Each gun is different so you can't make a universal statement on how someone can do it.

The kit removes ALL pre travel in a factory trigger. On top of that you are right in that there are other things that can be done to get the trigger down below 3 pounds and reliable with everything, including hard primers. For those who are only going to fire commercial ammo it is possible to have a 2 pound trigger that is 100% reliable. (I have a very, very light trigger that is well below 2 pounds on one gun and it fires hard primers without issue). I will not go into how it is done here but there are a few people on here that have the "complete" package.

dlm37015 has one and he can attest to how well a worked over trigger is. Garufa is another on here that has one of the "complete" triggers as well. I am sure there are others but I can't remember.

There are a couple of ways to get an even nicer trigger than just the kit but after a lot of experiments gone wrong it isn't for the novice. There has been a lot of time and money spent figuring out how far one can go, too far and a $15-$20 part is ruined. And plenty of parts have been ruined over the years. This is why instructions will not be given to anyone on how to do it on their own, it is too easy to screw up.

Again, I would like to hear of the "trigger bar" that you are removing a measureable .025"-.050" off of. And if it is what I think you are talking about you also need to "tweak" other parts of the fire control group to work together. Hardly something for the novice to even think about trying. Trust me I know because I ruined $75 worth of parts in an hour trying to find an easy, repeatable way to do it. In the end we just went back to the kit that is being sold. It provides a trigger that is way better than the factory trigger without having to spend a lot of money or run the risk of ruining parts. The gun can become unsafe, the safety may not work, and the gun might refuse to fire. All because too much was taken off.

The kit is designed for anyone with basic handtools and the ability to follow instructions to be able to install. There is not any filing, cutting, grinding or polishing needed to improve the trigger. Just buy the kit and take 10 minutes to install it.

The self install kit works and works well. For most people that install it the trigger is such a vast improvement they are happy with no further work. And if they are not 100% happy for any reason they can get their money back.

Dolomite

[Caster]

Wow...$165 for a trigger...okay. I may just go with the stock trigger. I mean...it can't be that bad.

The last DPMS trigger I put together felt like I was trying to squeeze a lump of coal into a diamond. As for being wow'd by the $165 price tag....I gave about $200 for the last Timney I bought, worth every penny. With the exception of the single set trigger on my CZ, it's the bet trigger I have ever felt.

[Mike]

Yes it can be THAT bad. Especially if you get spoiled on a more refined trigger. I have Timney units, which are single stage, on all three of my ARs. They were around $125 when I got them a few years ago.

Just go shoot AK's for a while. Then when you try your AR trigger again you will damn near **** a brick at how awesome it is.

Mike

[RWF]

Mike has it in hand and he knows how or if it can help him, but I suspect it can. It does help RRA two stage triggers as well as most other two stage triggers. If you have trigger movement when your gun is on safe the kits will improve your trigger.

I would like to know what AR has a trigger bar? I know there is no such thing in a factory trigger. There are only 3 parts to a AR trigger and none of them are called a bar.

Tweaking trigger, or finishing them as you say, is not something everybody can or is willing to do. Each gun is different so you can't make a universal statement on how someone can do it.

The kit removes ALL pre travel in a factory trigger. On top of that you are right in that there are other things that can be done to get the trigger down below 3 pounds and reliable with everything, including hard primers. For those who are only going to fire commercial ammo it is possible to have a 2 pound trigger that is 100% reliable. (I have a very, very light trigger that is well below 2 pounds on one gun and it fires hard primers without issue). I will not go into how it is done here but there are a few people on here that have the "complete" package.

dlm37015 has one and he can attest to how well a worked over trigger is. Garufa is another on here that has one of the "complete" triggers as well. I am sure there are others but I can't remember.

There are a couple of ways to get an even nicer trigger than just the kit but after a lot of experiments gone wrong it isn't for the novice. There has been a lot of time and money spent figuring out how far one can go, too far and a $15-$20 part is ruined. And plenty of parts have been ruined over the years. This is why instructions will not be given to anyone on how to do it on their own, it is too easy to screw up.

Again, I would like to hear of the "trigger bar" that you are removing a measureable .025"-.050" off of. And if it is what I think you are talking about you also need to "tweak" other parts of the fire control group to work together. Hardly something for the novice to even think about trying. Trust me I know because I ruined $75 worth of parts in an hour trying to find an easy, repeatable way to do it. In the end we just went back to the kit that is being sold. It provides a trigger that is way better than the factory trigger without having to spend a lot of money or run the risk of ruining parts. The gun can become unsafe, the safety may not work, and the gun might refuse to fire. All because too much was taken off.

The kit is designed for anyone with basic handtools and the ability to follow instructions to be able to install. There is not any filing, cutting, grinding or polishing needed to improve the trigger. Just buy the kit and take 10 minutes to install it.

The self install kit works and works well. For most people that install it the trigger is such a vast improvement they are happy with no further work. And if they are not 100% happy for any reason they can get their money back.

Dolomite

sorry for the piss poor discreption of the part. it is most likely just called a trigger, the "BAR" part of the trigger that part that the safety hits is what i am talking about. the "bar" is what your kit pushs up on to remove the travel, which i am sure you have figure out. and i do agree that you do need some knowledge of what you doing, i am just surprised that with you haveing so many out there that no one has done, tryed or even asked about it. and yes it would be easy to remove to much metal and the gun would still fire with the safety on. and you would have to throw away that part and start over. the rule of i was taught start with .020 then test a little more and test.

at one time and they still may, JP offered a safety that used a allen type screw and you adjusted the trigger safety engagement from there. so no metal work was needed.

i am also surprise that Mike's trigger are not adjustable. that brand has always to me top of the line stuff, and the only vendors i see are at competions i guess that is why i have handle the adjustable models.

Edited December 28, 2011 by RWF

[mikegideon]

The last DPMS trigger I put together felt like I was trying to squeeze a lump of coal into a diamond. As for being wow'd by the $165 price tag....I gave about $200 for the last Timney I bought, worth every penny. With the exception of the single set trigger on my CZ, it's the bet trigger I have ever felt.

Right. A great (drop in) trigger requires precision machining, and in some cases, higher grade materials. I've been around the block with triggers. The only rifles I have with stock triggers are my Brownings, and a Marlin lever gun that I've never fired. 165 bucks is a steal for precision parts with wire cut sear surfaces.

Nothing wrong with a good trigger job either. I wouldn't hesitate to turn Dolomite loose on one of my rifles. The trade-off is that the parts are hand fitted instead of off the rack.

[Dolomite_supafly]

sorry for the piss poor discreption of the part. it is most likely just called a trigger, the "BAR" part of the trigger that part that the safety hits is what i am talking about. the "bar" is what your kit pushs up on to remove the travel, which i am sure you have figure out. and i do agree that you do need some knowledge of what you doing, i am just surprised that with you haveing so many out there that no one has done, tryed or even asked about it. and yes it would be easy to remove to much metal and the gun would still fire with the safety on. and you would have to throw away that part and start over. the rule of i was taught start with .020 then test a little more and test.

at one time and they still may, JP offered a safety that used a allen type screw and you adjusted the trigger safety engagement from there. so no metal work was needed.

i am also surprise that Mike's trigger are not adjustable. that brand has always to me top of the line stuff, and the only vendors i see are at competions i guess that is why i have handle the adjustable models.

I have used this method before and it seems like the standard that a lot of smiths use. About 1/2 the time using this method you also have to tweak your disconnect by removing material from the hook. And that often leaves it with very little engagement to hold the hammer back. It is a very, very fine line between safe and unsafe. And when tolerances stack against you it can be impssible to have a realiable trigger using this method. Yes you can have a slightly nicer trigger but at the cost of a gun that might double as time goes on. I found a better method that feels just as good, requires no "tweaking" of the disconnect, and it is reliable even with high round counts. But as I said I will not discuss it here.

The Giessle triggers have several models. The ones he has are the military models that are non adjustable. The reason? Because every "Joe" out there would be adjusting their own triggers in the field. These triggers are in issued guns being used overseas. The do make a fully adjustable one.

And while they are not Giessle for the money the improvement kits can't be beat. Coffee drinkers spend more a week on their coffee and readers of newspapers spend more a week on their papers. Hard to beat a safe, relaible, trigger upgrade for the cost.

Dolomite

[RWF]

ok, just asking a question. didn't mean to ruffle feathers.