FEMA Document (Pulled!) on the Coming Lockdown

[jtluttrell]

I spent a long time thinking that "they" was a group of people plotting in a dark, smokey room somewhere. "They" controlled everything and had a master plan. However, I was struck with the same observation that someone mentioned above. How could such a group of people, inevitably needing to control and persuade so many other people in order to enact their plans, keep this a secret? Would this not suggest such a vast network of conspirators that it would be impossible to go undetected? Certainly, this could not be the case. How could so many people be united in pursuing a common goal?

I cannot believe this. What I do believe is that there are dark streaks in human nature. We see evidence of them everyday. Everyone of us is subject to them. The only difference between anyone of us is how we act on them and what means we have to act on them. A desperate man may invade your home, a powerful man may simply take it from you. This side of human nature is undeniable. Our founding fathers knew this. They knew that too much power in the hands of too few people was bound give way to these traits. That's why they gave the majority of the power to the people and very little power to the federal government (and they even split that up between the 3 branches). It was intentionally setup to avoid what has happened over and over and over throughout human history, a consolidation of power that ultimately benefits very few and harms the majority. It was a great plan.

but I think we've screwed that up.

The founding fathers left it up to us, the people, to make sure this didn't happen. So, yes, there are a lot of conspiracy theories about secret meetings and hidden agendas, etc. (and I'm not saying there aren't psychos out there who do this) but it's our JOB! I'd rather see overly paranoid people than people who are not paying attention at all! The worst part is, I think we actually made it worse. We have such a horrible addiction to being "protected" by our government. Every time someone slips or a baby chokes we BEG for more laws, regulations, agencies, etc. We beg for it. What's hard to comprehend is that every time we do this we are relinquishing just a little more power over our own lives to the government. We are giving it away. It's like saying, "We're too f'n stupid to take care of ourselves, will you please tell us what to do and what not to do.".

So, maybe nobody is plotting to detain US citizens or go gun snatching, but it is extremely dangerous to think that we can have a consolidation of power in one place and someone won't eventually come along and take advantage of it. Read a history book, it's almost guaranteed to happen. It's amazing to me that after just 235 years we have imagined ourselves immune from the potential lurking in our very nature that is so evident everywhere else in the world.

This is who (or what) "they" are. They can be everywhere and nowhere. They can control any man without his knowledge. They can make a man a part of a conspiracy that he does not know exists.

I hope I made the f'n list.

Stay Vigilant.

[Guest mikedwood]

I understand what some of you are saying, but the way I see it is it's not a dark smokey room and they don't really have evil intent. It's more like renting out a posh hotel every once in a while and having a different view of what is best for the planet as a whole and the means to carry it out. Do they want to dominate? I don't think they have the same perception of dominate as you or I would.

I am convinced just as a business or a city has a long range plan that there are a group of people who are rich and powerful enough to have a long range plan for the planet and to some extent carry out that plan. Just as a small company can have all kinds of fun and freedom when most businesses get larger there are more and more rules to keep things straight. Like Home Depot use to be a loose crazy place to work. Now it's managed much more precisely and it's lost some of it's soul (a lot of it's soul). I would love the loosey goosey Home Depot and others would like the more professional Home Depot. But the more you add the more you lose. And the population is growing.

I'm not saying that the global elite are guilty of even half of what they are accused of, but to say they don't have plans that we who like a little freedom with our lunch might see as conspiracies is completely naive. (<<<speaking completely general here intended at no one specific)

Side note here on the "War on Terror" For me to think TSA at every airport and VIPR teams on the highways is to stop highly sophisticated and well financed cave men is simply more than I can be asked to believe.

[Guest pfries]

to stop highly sophisticated and well financed cave men is simply more than I can be asked to believe.

[Guest klwehunt]

Policeman Dave i'm new on here and you have probably answered this many times but being a leo what will you do if your powers at be orders you to go out and confiscate guns?

[DaveTN]

Policeman Dave i'm new on here and you have probably answered this many times but being a leo what will you do if your powers at be orders you to go out and confiscate guns?

If that’s for me, I’m not a cop anymore, that was years ago.

I would never confiscate guns from law abiding citizens, and none of the cops I know would either. Everyone knows anymore that saying you are just following orders doesn’t cut it. The confiscation of guns during Katrina was a small isolated incident, but the media attention it got resulted in laws being passed to prevent it from happening again.

150 years ago Americans took up arms against each other. It was the bloodiest war our nation has ever been in; it will not happen again. We will not allow a hostile takeover of our government and we also will not allow the government to start kicking in doors and taking guns.

Because of our economy things are going to get much worse than they are now. You are going to need your guns because at some point the Police are not going to be able to keep up. In some areas it’s that way now. It isn’t going to be the government kicking in your door and taking your guns; it’s going to be criminals kicking in your door to take whatever they want.

It’s up to us (The American people) to fix our own economy, bring our manufacturing base back, and put people back to work. It’s still fixable at this point, but by the time Americans realize it’s all on them; it may be too late.

[Guest klwehunt]

Dave Tn I agree with allmost everything tou said except i know some LEO's that don't think like you do that is the reason i asked.I thought you were a current LEO' but thanks for your service.Have you heard of the oathkeepers?

[RobertNashville]

Honest to God guys (and girls) I've been hearing pretty much the stuff since I was a teenager back in the late 60s and were my father still with us he could probably go back another 50 years; it's really difficult to take any of this stuff seriously.

Am I concerned about some of we known truly is going on? Absolutely

FEMA camps and complete government takeovers of the country/dictatorship? I'm more than a little skeptical!

[MattCary]

Ok. I just read this thread from beginning to end, and this may be an overly simple scenario:

UN Ratifies their "Small Arms Treaty."

US Senate Ratifies it.

Feds enforce ban.

Those who refuse are declared terrorists.

Terrorists are indefinitely detained.

They have to be detained somewhere, so FEMA camps it is.

Totally irrational right wing nut tinfoil hat conspiracy theory?

Or is this plausible?

[Guest ThePunisher]

To those that would feel more comfortable being tried by a military tribunal than civilian court, since Obama is the Commander-In-Chief of the military, maybe you would prefer him to be the presiding judge also.

Don't worry about Obama presiding over your trial, you'll be ok.

[c.a.willard]

This was enacted so that a foreign terrorist on american soil was not protected by our legal system. Had the terrorists that struck on 9-11 been caught before hand, they would have been entitled to all the rights that we have, indefinate detention of prisoners in a time of war is nothing new this just gives legal standing for those non uniformed combatants caught on american soil. I would rather have them held in a military detention facility than a U.S. prison where there hate and rethoric can spread. As far as people comming and knocking down your doors, whose really going to do that. Sure theres probably some bone head legislature somewhere at some point in time that may try, but generally speaking the US military and police forces around the country will NOT support it. Dictators of the past and present did/do what they did/do with the support of their military and law enforcement agencies and with a population to weak to fight it. Yes i took an oath to obey the presedent of the united states but immediately before that the same oath says that i will support and defend the constitution, if they ever do conflict guess which one im supporting. As far as a plan to react to a catastrauphic failure of government, not to have a plan in place would be idiotic. As much that we hope it never happens in our lifetime history has taught us that all governments fail at some point. Our system was initially set up to give us maximum flexibility in order to prevent that from happening, but in reality we will only prolong the inevitable.

[Guest ThePunisher]

This was enacted so that a foreign terrorist on american soil was not protected by our legal system. Had the terrorists that struck on 9-11 been caught before hand, they would have been entitled to all the rights that we have, indefinate detention of prisoners in a time of war is nothing new this just gives legal standing for those non uniformed combatants caught on american soil. I would rather have them held in a military detention facility than a U.S. prison where there hate and rethoric can spread. As far as people comming and knocking down your doors, whose really going to do that. Sure theres probably some bone head legislature somewhere at some point in time that may try, but generally speaking the US military and police forces around the country will NOT support it. Dictators of the past and present did/do what they did/do with the support of their military and law enforcement agencies and with a population to weak to fight it. Yes i took an oath to obey the presedent of the united states but immediately before that the same oath says that i will support and defend the constitution, if they ever do conflict guess which one im supporting. As far as a plan to react to a catastrauphic failure of government, not to have a plan in place would be idiotic. As much that we hope it never happens in our lifetime history has taught us that all governments fail at some point. Our system was initially set up to give us maximum flexibility in order to prevent that from happening, but in reality we will only prolong the inevitable.

Anyone remember Obama a couple years ago saying he would like to have a one million man private civilian army outside of the military and local police forces. These would be private jackboots created to make private citizens disappear in the middle of the night. I'm astonished there has not been anymore talk of it lately, probably because it is nearing 2012 elections. But this will probably not occurr until after his re-election when he declares his dictatorship. Edited January 3, 2012 by ThePunisher

[Guest bkelm18]

To those that would feel more comfortable being tried by a military tribunal than civilian court, since Obama is the Commander-In-Chief of the military, maybe you would prefer him to be the presiding judge also.

Don't worry about Obama presiding over your trial, you'll be ok.

I'm guessing you have no idea how a military trial works. Obama isn't going to be the "judge".

This place is turning into one big tin foil factory.

[Guest bkelm18]

Anyone remember Obama a couple years ago saying he would like to have a one million man private civilian army outside of the military and local police forces. These would be private jackboots created to make private citizens disappear in the middle of the night. I'm astonished there has not been anymore talk of it lately, probably because it is nearing 2012 elections. But this will probably not occurr until after his re-election when he declares his dictatorship.

Yep and what happened to that "army'? Where is it? Oh wait, it never happened. He's not going to declare himself dictator. He's not going to create his own private army. He's not going to throw you in a dark cell forever just because you looked at him funny. I'm really astonished by some of the people on this board who engage in such silly political discussions but apparently have no idea how our government works. Even more astonishing is that they think our government is even capable of doing half the things the tin-foil wearing populace would have you believe.

Edited January 3, 2012 by bkelm18

[leroy]

C. A. spoke a great truth here:

....but generally speaking the US military and police forces around the country will NOT support it. (...an armed takeover and internment of the citizenry by the government [ leroy's annotation ] ...

Over the years there have been surveys that have consistently indicated that neither the enlisted ranks nor the officer corps would support action on US soil against US citizens. These surveys have been goin on for a pretty long while. Let us hope and pray the the men and women in uniform continue to believe in the principles on which this country was founded. I personally know three West Point Graduates who are currently serving that strongly believe in what this country was founded on. There is an urban legend that right before Richard Nixon stepped down, the "martial law" thing was discussed. It is also whispered that the much vilified General Alexander Haig refused the order. That is exactly how this is supposed to work. I simply do not believe that the young men and women that are voluntarily serving in the US Armed Forces can be suddenly turned into jackbooted thugs. I also do not believe they would countinance any home grown jack booted thugs either.

leroy

[TMF]

C. A. spoke a great truth here:

Over the years there have been surveys that have consistently indicated that neither the enlisted ranks nor the officer corps would support action on US soil against US citizens. These surveys have been goin on for a pretty long while. Let us hope and pray the the men and women in uniform continue to believe in the principles on which this country was founded. I personally know three West Point Graduates who are currently serving that strongly believe in what this country was founded on. There is an urban legend that right before Richard Nixon stepped down, the "martial law" thing was discussed. It is also whispered that the much vilified General Alexander Haig refused the order. That is exactly how this is supposed to work. I simply do not believe that the young men and women that are voluntarily serving in the US Armed Forces can be suddenly turned into jackbooted thugs. I also do not believe they would countinance any home grown jack booted thugs either.

leroy

Most officers I knew when I was in always had a Constitution/Bill of Rights quick reference guide on them at all times. I know a couple of them were VMI grads. I'm not sure if that is something that is required while they're cadets, but some of those officers were religious about having it on them... even downrange.

I agree, the jack booted thugs that are going to throw you in jail under Obama's orders would be the combat arms units of our Army and Marines (Infantry/SF/Cav/Marine Band). Anyone here that has ever served in such a unit would immediately recognize that this is something that would never happen. I remember seeing a poll in the Army Times during the 2008 election which had polled the percentage of combat arms personnel that were voting for McCain rather than Obama... it was over 80 percent. If that is not enough proof to those here that our military still swings to the right of center.... well... if the tinfoil hat fits...

[East_TN_Patriot]

OK... I looked over all 11 pages of this alleged secret document. I see nothing in it discussing how FEMA will designate the American people as "enemies" or "wage war" on the American people. In fact, I see nothing even close to that in the document. I am as skeptical of government power as the next guy, but as is the case with any other grand conspiracy theory regarding the federal government, this would require literally thousands of US government personnel and military members, most of whom are just ordinary folks like you and me, to go along with the program and harm their fellow man just because the government tells them to and to keep these devious plans a secret from everyone. The US government couldn't keep a lowly Private in the US Army to keep documents related to our wars in the Middle East quiet, much less keep thousands of civilian government officials in FEMA to keep their mouths shut. Let's be realistic here.

[Caster]

Admittedly I don't watch or read much news anymore. I've lost the will to give a crap. Anything of significance, I'm feel comfortable, will be posted here anyway. Having said that, the wife sent me this link; I found it a bit disturbing.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/with-reservations-obama-signs-act-to-allow-detention-of-citizens/

I always had a feeling they could that anyway. Ohh well, tighten your tinfoil helmet and brace for the first wave.

[leroy]

...Admittedly I don't watch or read much news anymore. I've lost the will to give a crap. Anything of significance, I'm feel comfortable, will be posted here anyway. Having said that, the wife sent me this link; I found it a bit disturbing.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/12/with-reservations-obama-signs-act-to-allow-detention-of-citizens/

I always had a feeling they could that anyway. Ohh well, tighten your tinfoil helmet and brace for the first wave. ...

Caster and all:______________

There are several threads with this same theme. In one of them i posted a bit of a blurb that goes somethin like this:

In the early 1900's (...probably 1909 --1915 or so...) the Cabin Creek and Paint Creek coal producing areas in West Virginia were troubled with several bloody skirmishes and killings between the United Mine Workers and the WV Coal operators that resulted in martial law being involked and citizens being detained witout trial and sentenced to long to internment by military authorities.

The famous (...or infamous, depending on your view..) union organizer and avowed socialist "Mother Jones" (...Mary Harris jones...) was one of those sentenced. This went all the way thru the state courts and the Supreme Court (...i think...) and the "holding without trial and sentencing thru military tribunal" thing was struck down and all the sentences were voided. There is an interesting treatment of this subject in an obscure book entitled "Bloodletting in West Virginia" by Howard B. Lee, who, by the way, was a lawyer and State Attorney General of West Virgina. It is fascinating reading.

The bottom line of all this was that the court's ruling was that military courts had no juristiction where there were functioning state and federal courts. Bear in mind that those held without trial and sentenced by military authorities were both citizens and immigrants. Just because some jackass in government gets a section put into law doesn't automatically erase existing legal precedent and constitutional law. It does, however, require that the section of the law be challenged in court. Maybe some of our members who are attorneys will opine on this a bit, but i wouldn't worry about american citizens being held without trial and tried in military courts.

By the way, there is also a blurb about a "clarification" added to the law. See the post (...post #9...) on the e-mail from bob corker http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/national-politics-legislation/66742-joe-joseph-military-designate-americans-enemy-during-collapse.html ..

leroy

Hope this helps a bit.

leroy

[Guest ThePunisher]

Yep and what happened to that "army'? Where is it? Oh wait, it never happened. He's not going to declare himself dictator. He's not going to create his own private army. He's not going to throw you in a dark cell forever just because you looked at him funny. I'm really astonished by some of the people on this board who engage in such silly political discussions but apparently have no idea how our government works. Even more astonishing is that they think our government is even capable of doing half the things the tin-foil wearing populace would have you believe.

I'm really astonished how naive you are regarding the capabilities of what big government can do to your liberties and freedoms. Could you or anyone explain why any sane candidate, U.S. Senator, or President would suggest any Hitler like idea of creating a million man civilian force outside the armed forces and local police. That is unheard of in America, and very alarming to Americans. A President really assures me that everthing is gonna be "ok" when I hear Hitler like speeches, yeah, right. This is what happened in Nazi Germany, and America fought against Nazi Germany. Get your head out of the sand. Can you or anyone explain the phenomenal sales of guns in the last three years. This last Black Friday broke a record of over 129,000 gun sales, and this December broke the one month record of gun sales of over 1,5000,000. All indications of these gun sales point out the alarm people have with this administration. These gun sales were not just for SD only. People feel that there is something just not right with this Marxist regime in the WH, and they don't trust the direction they are leading our country.

Marxism and socialism is something un-American, and until this administration came into power, Americans have paid the price of blood and money fighting against these centralized government economical philosophies to preserve capitalism, and the liberties and freedoms that result from capitalism. The founding fathers warned us to always be alert to the ever present foreign and domestic threats of tyranny. When the American people become apathetic to what their representatives do with their trust, then tyranny starts creeping into our government, and gets a strong foot hold before we know it. Until the brain dead people elected Obama, Marxism/communism was unheard of in our government branches, and now it appears to be well entrenched especially the WH and democratic party.

I would suggest you start reading more history beginning with the Bible, and then western civilization as well as U.S history to get a perspective of what is happening in the world today. I know it is mind numbing and confusing for you to absorb what is going on in the world, and in our country without a firm understanding of history. Once you receive that historical understanding, then you will realize your accusations of people on this forum participating in silly political discussions and tin-foil wearing populace were due to immaturity and lack of knowledge about history. Good luck in your studies.

[Oh Shoot]

....I would suggest you start reading more history beginning with the Bible, and then western civilization as well as U.S history to get a perspective of what is happening in the world today. I know it is mind numbing and confusing for you to absorb what is going on in the world, and in our country without a firm understanding of history. Once you receive that historical understanding, then you will realize your accusations of people on this forum participating in silly political discussions and tin-foil wearing populace were due to immaturity and lack of knowledge about history. Good luck in your studies.

I'll withhold an opinion on your erudition as a historian (except to mention that including the Bible as a valid source of world history greatly impugns it), but will confidently assert that your arrogance is within the top percentile.

- OS

[Guest bkelm18]

Demanding that I read the bible to understand current politics tells me all I need to know about you. Thanks but I prefer to have serious discussions.

By the way, I have read the Bible. Both testaments and about half of the Koran. I consider myself educated enough to give realistic opinions and not to engage in childish tit for tat discussions regarding crackpot political theories.

[Guest ThePunisher]

I'll withhold an opinion on your erudition as a historian (except to mention that including the Bible as a valid source of world history greatly impugns it), but will confidently assert that your arrogance is within the top percentile.

- OS

I'm sure you know that the Bible is a source of recorded history since you obviously are very knowledgeable in many things.

[Oh Shoot]

I'm sure you know that the Bible is a source of recorded history since you obviously are very knowledgeable in many things.

There are precious few, if ANY, historically verified historical people or events in the approximately 3500 year span recounted in the Old Testament to corroborate that compilation of folklore and ethos of Jewish culture.

While there are some relatively accurate historical references to Roman and Greek history in the tacked on New Testament, there is no, absolutely NO historical record of Jesus himself by any contemporary historical source -- indeed, no part of the New Testament itself was written during his purported lifetime. Since the principal thesis of the entire NT cannot be verified, it certainly casts doubts on any other part that cannot be verified through other sources of the same time period.

But these minor obstacles of course would obviously not give a scholar of your caliber much pause in citing the Bible as an overall reliable secular source. And how what little verifiable history is does contain relates to your prognosis about America is clearly well beyond my grasp.

- OS

Edited January 4, 2012 by OhShoot

[East_TN_Patriot]

Marxism and socialism is something un-American, and until this administration came into power, Americans have paid the price of blood and money fighting against these centralized government economical philosophies to preserve capitalism, and the liberties and freedoms that result from capitalism. The founding fathers warned us to always be alert to the ever present foreign and domestic threats of tyranny. When the American people become apathetic to what their representatives do with their trust, then tyranny starts creeping into our government, and gets a strong foot hold before we know it. Until the brain dead people elected Obama, Marxism/communism was unheard of in our government branches, and now it appears to be well entrenched especially the WH and democratic party.

You clearly don't have a complete or realistic understanding of US history. Marxism and socialism in various forms has been a part of our federal policies for well over a century. What we fought against was the "Hun" in WWII, Nazis and fascists in WWII, and Communism during the Cold War. The US has seen its fair share of populist movements that incorporated socialist ideas. Our Pledge of Allegiance was written by a socialist. Labor unions were organized by socialist and Marxist groups. Several of our social policies including public education and progressive taxation are reflected in Marx's "Communist Manifesto" and many of our current labor laws were inspired my Marxist criticisms of capitalist society. Whether you agree with any of these philosophies is a matter of discussion, but one can't reconstruct history to suit their own views. Also, the Bible has been used to justify socialist and Marxist policies throughout American history, so one should be cautious in bringing Chrustianity into a political debate.

[Guest ThePunisher]

Demanding that I read the bible to understand current politics tells me all I need to know about you. Thanks but I prefer to have serious discussions.

By the way, I have read the Bible. Both testaments and about half of the Koran. I consider myself educated enough to give realistic opinions and not to engage in childish tit for tat discussions regarding crackpot political theories.

I never demanded you read the Bible or any history books, I only suggested them for historical understanding of the world current events. Work on the reading comprehension also. But if you had a clear understanding of the Bible as a source of history as well as a divine authority, you would know that the re-birth of Israel in May14,1948 was prophesied in the Bible, and this event has world implications and consequences today. The generation that witnesses the re-birth of Israel will see the end times of the world as we know it today. A generation is generally considered 70 years by most Bible scholars, and this May 14, Israel will be 64 years old as a nation. But you already knew that. I'm sorry for lecturing you on history.

You are the one that engaged in childish tit for tat and tin-foil status discussions. Work on the maturity as well as historical study. I thought this forum was a discussion forum where everyone's opinion is just that, an opinion. If you don't agree then don't engage in your childish tit for tat tin-foil status accusations. Since you have over 7,400 posts on this forum, I didn't know you are the almighty of the forum. Let me inform you that if everybody that has different opinions of yours doesn't make them crackpots.

Have a good evening sir.