Apparently Superintendents are above the law

[Guest WyattEarp]

If they really wanted to protect, they'd let any law abiding citizen to carry anywhere they wanted, with the exception of secured areas jails/prisons, and maybe courtrooms.

This is not case law, no judge ruled on this... So it won't help anybody else.

This is a perfect example of the corruption and favoritism in our current legal system.

maybe, maybe not, but the fact of the matter is, it would give a defense attorney something to argue, and if you can create any reasonable doubt for a jury, anything that helps is worthwhile.

the D.A. should have kept this quiet and out of the news if he had half a brain. this opens a door for criticism and leaves a public record of a prosecutor documented and on the record of opting not to file charges. I'm sure there's about 1,000 other prosecutors across Tennessee currently cursing this man for this.

I can only imagine what kind of hell the anti-gun rights activists might raise if they see this (and haven't already done so). This could be used as leverage, to show that gun free school zones aren't being kept free of guns and that there's a need for tighter gun restrictions and control. Last thing they need to get is more evidence to support their whack job way of thinking.

You call it preferential treatment; they call it discretion. You can put whatever name on it you want but I can absolutely assure you that you don’t want it taken away.

If the Deputy felt that strongly about it he should have taken him into custody right then. He didn’t. The guy got a warning and he said he wouldn’t do it again…. End of story.

sorry, but that's the biggest bunch of horse crap I've ever heard. every school is a gun free zone. no one including teachers or faculty are allowed to carry on any school grounds, in any school building, unless that person is School Resource Officer, an undercover or off duty police officer, or otherwise an active member of any law enforcement agency or retired, or is a member of the military and authorized by their command to carry a weapon.

the only exception, is an adult who is making a quick stop to pickup a child/student, who might have a weapon in their car, per the TCA.

The law does not allow for Superintendents to carry, they are not security officers, they are not licensed as such, and I see no mention of where it says this fella has an armed security license.

if this was me standing in line at the school to pick up my kid, and I was seen carrying, you and I both, know damn well I would have been cuffed, stuffed, bagged and gagged and hauled off to jail, and there would have been charges. You can sugarcoat it all you want, but macguyver's right, you're living in a fantasy world.

this was not a case of discretion. this was a case of pure favoritism.

discretion to me would be case where something is borderline between criminal and not-criminal, where it walked a fine line, maybe something was inappropriate, but it might have been tough to prove in court that it was illegally done, or intentionally done, and the prosecutor decided not to waste taxpayers dollars to prosecute a case he may or may not win.

You might say he did that in this case, but I would disagree because there was no fine line about it. This was cut and dry wrong. No guns on school property or in buildings, that was violated, this guy knew the rule and did it anyway.

If I read that story right the Deputy made an observation, he informed the Sherriff, the Sherriff gave the information to the DA, and the DA told him not to do it again and dropped it.

Is that not how we want it handled? Should we be pizzed off because he wasn’t cuffed and hauled off to jail? How did this become a “Bad Cop” issue?

Do I think I could walk into that same school carrying and get a warning instead of being arrested? Probably not, but one can hope.

funny, I've had cops make an observation of me speeding, and when I've politely asked if they could give me a warning, I've been told " the camera's running 24/7 in my cruiser and I'd have to explain why I didn't write you a ticket, sorry but the law is the law and you broke it."

but it's "discretion" in this case? bah!

im more ticked off at the prosecutor for looking the other way and not doing anything, than I am at the Deputy for not making an arrest, or at least issueing a citation. Had the prosecutor charged him, and then agreed to plea it down to something else, and at least charged him $100 and 30 days probation, I'd have been content with that. But to do nothing when the law was blatantly disregarded. This wasn't a guy rushing to school straight from work, because his kid was vomiting all over the place and needed to go home. This is a guy who works at the school, knew the rules and the law and broke it any way.

3:1 odds, says the Deputy and Super are buddies, and the Deputy couldn't bring himself to do the right thing, because it was someone he knew and he didn't want to cost a friendship by arresting him, and he figured it was just a "minor" little violation, so instead he just told his boss about it, and let his boss take the heat and be the bad guy, Sherriff then passed it on to the DA because he didn't want to be the bad guy either, and in the end, the prosecutor didn't enforce the law.

If I were a school resource Officer and I noticed you were carrying (printing, whatever) while in there for something to do with your kid, I would quietly ask you step outside and I would remind you of the law. If you said you didn’t know you couldn’t carry there, or forgot you were carrying; I would just ask that you make sure it doesn’t happen again. I think most of the cops I know would do the same thing as long as no one else saw it or had complained.

We didn’t have carry permits where I was a cop, but we let a lot of stuff slide when we could. Most of the cops I knew were pro-gun and wanted our state to adopt carry laws. I know that’s not the popular consensus around here, but it’s just my observation from having been a street cop. I have only had the opportunity to talk to a couple of Tennessee cops, and we talked about carrying past a sign. They said they would simply ask people to leave, and arrest them if they refused; but they said they had never had an HCP holder refuse to leave.

I understand that a school is a whole other issue, especially if the Resource Officer has been approached by a freaked out soccer mom, teacher, or a 911 call has been made.

I’m on a gun forum on the internet…. Of course its a fantasy world.

you would be the exception to the rule, most cops wouldn't, they'd haul someone off quick fast and in a hurry, and they'd be charged with a crime.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Remember a few months back the post about the guy who walked by a school with a firearm?

Seem to recall everybody, the public as well as local LE, went off the deep end even though the guy wasn't even on school property and what he was doing was perfectly legal. Although I can't say, I would be willing to bet this is how the reaction would have been in this case as well had it been anyone else. The school would have been locked down and every LE agency available would show up at the school to apprehend the "man with a gun". There would have been public outcry, including on here, for the man to be hung from the rafters and the DA would have charged. But in this case the DA lets him walk and even makes an excuse for his felonious behavior.

If the DA said Thomas' actions were legal under a state statute then why can't Thomas continue to carry on shcool property? After all if it is legal once it would remain legal. It is because the DA knows Thomas' actions are against the law.

There is a John Thomas with a HCP out of Hardin County, not sure if it is the same guy but even if it is Mr. Thomas still is prohibited from carrying on school property like he did.

In a perfect world I would love to say Thomas didn't break the law but the fact of the matter is he did break the law and a pretty serious one at that. Regardless of what we may think of the law it is still a law and it must be enforced equally without regard to who broke it. And even if it was allowed to be pleaded down to nothing he should have still been charged criminally like anyone else acting in the same manner. I just hate when there are two sets of rules when there should only be one.

This is one example of what is wrong with our country now, too many people are not being held accountable for their actions. People are allowed to break the law with impunity. Some are even encouraged to do so when those breaking the laws or those enforcing the laws have something to gain. Think about this, if everyone in our society began to disregard the laws they don't agree with then we would wake up tomorrow living in a third world country. It is the laws and how they are enforced that makes us different from most other uncivilized countries.

Dolomite

[DaveTN]

In a perfect world I would love to say Thomas didn't break the law but the fact of the matter is he did break the law and a pretty serious one at that. Regardless of what we may think of the law it is still a law and it must be enforced equally without regard to who broke it. And even if it was allowed to be pleaded down to nothing he should have still been charged criminally like anyone else acting in the same manner. I just hate when there are two sets of rules when there should only be one.

This is one example of what is wrong with our country now, too many people are not being held accountable for their actions. People are allowed to break the law with impunity. Some are even encouraged to do so when those breaking the laws or those enforcing the laws have something to gain. Think about this, if everyone in our society began to disregard the laws they don't agree with then we would wake up tomorrow living in a third world country. It is the laws and how they are enforced that makes us different from most other uncivilized countries.

Dolomite

If I remember right you said you served a third of your life as a Police Officer. When you were a Patrol Officer did you arrest everyone that had violated the law?

I worked during the time the “Domestic Violence†laws were changed. Our discretion was taken away. I took people to jail on charges of Domestic Violence that I didn’t think warranted an arrest. And, that’s a pretty serious charge to be arrested on. I was pretty vocal about it and was told if I didn’t like it; quit.

Removing Officers discretion is not good. I made judgment calls and either let people go with a warning or arrested them. We don’t know if an HCP holder has ever been warned; the only reason you are reading about this is because of the politics involved and the fact that a school administrator was involved.

[JayC]

More like 30 feet....

I wonder what constitutes "private police" for the purpose of 39-17-1309? Because he wasn't acting as a security guard, because it says they have to meet the requirements of Title 62, Chapter 35.

I agree, but the comment from the DA in the article leads me to believe they're hanging the 'didn't break the law' on some form of security responsibility.

How you get from reality to there is a very good question indeed... probably why I wouldn't make a good lawyer, the law is very clear, any idiot can tell only 'special' people can carry at schools...

But, this goes to show that we don't need the no school carry law on the books anymore. Somebody with nothing more than a carry permit carried and nobody is dead, so therefore it should be safe for all of us to carry there... even at college if we're students.

[Fallguy]

If the DA said Thomas' actions were legal under a state statute then why can't Thomas continue to carry on shcool property? After all if it is legal once it would remain legal. It is because the DA knows Thomas' actions are against the law.

Sort of wondered about that myself....

[Fallguy]

I agree, but the comment from the DA in the article leads me to believe they're hanging the 'didn't break the law' on some form of security responsibility.

How you get from reality to there is a very good question indeed... probably why I wouldn't make a good lawyer, the law is very clear, any idiot can tell only 'special' people can carry at schools...

But, this goes to show that we don't need the no school carry law on the books anymore. Somebody with nothing more than a carry permit carried and nobody is dead, so therefore it should be safe for all of us to carry there... even at college if we're students.

Yeah, except the security exception says the person must meet the requirements of Title 62, Chapter 35. So unless the superintendent is a licensed security officer that just doesn't wash....

But I agree it should show a gun isn't just going to jump out of a holster and shoot someone in a school....

[sigbrown1297]

so much for zero tolerance in schools. Guess the rule only applies to students....

[Dolomite_supafly]

If I remember right you said you served a third of your life as a Police Officer. When you were a Patrol Officer did you arrest everyone that had violated the law?

I worked during the time the “Domestic Violence” laws were changed. Our discretion was taken away. I took people to jail on charges of Domestic Violence that I didn’t think warranted an arrest. And, that’s a pretty serious charge to be arrested on. I was pretty vocal about it and was told if I didn’t like it; quit.

Removing Officers discretion is not good. I made judgment calls and either let people go with a warning or arrested them. We don’t know if an HCP holder has ever been warned; the only reason you are reading about this is because of the politics involved and the fact that a school administrator was involved.

If it was someone who committed a crime that was a felony that is punisable by 6 years in prison I would have, without a doubt, arrested them. That is what the sentence could have been in this case. Now minor infractions it depends upon the circumstances but felonies are a bit more serious and should be treated as such. Misdemeanors are not is the same category as felonies and as such are a different animal. Even the most hard assed officer in the world isn't going to arrest for every violation of the law. But the most officers are going to arrest people who have committed a felony.

The reason why this didn't happen in this case was because they no doubt knew eachother. Glad he was able to use his discretion but honestly I am not sure I could have let it go knowing it is a serious crime.

Dolomite

[DaveTN]

If it was someone who committed a crime that was a felony that is punisable by 6 years in prison I would have, without a doubt, arrested them. That is what the sentence could have been in this case. Now minor infractions it depends upon the circumstances but felonies are a bit more serious and should be treated as such. Misdemeanors are not is the same category as felonies and as such are a different animal. Even the most hard assed officer in the world isn't going to arrest for every violation of the law. But the most officers are going to arrest people who have committed a felony.

The reason why this didn't happen in this case was because they no doubt knew eachother. Glad he was able to use his discretion but honestly I am not sure I could have let it go knowing it is a serious crime.

Dolomite

He didn’t let it go; he reported it to the Sheriff, who reported it to the DA. The DA decided not to prosecute. I assume he would have made the same decision if the guy had been booked and jailed.

I didn’t have discretion on reporting a felony either; but I didn’t have to make an arrest. I just had to notify the DA and let him make the call on an arrest.

If you were the school Resource Officer would you have cuffed him up in front of everyone and called for a transport or called a Command Officer and see what they want to do?

Did he get a break because he was a school administrator? Doubtful. Sounds to me like he got a break because he had friends in the right places. Is a school administrator carrying at work more dangerous than speeding? Not to me it’s not and I have let friends and relatives go that I stopped for speeding.

I understand you are trying to make a point that he got a break because of who he knew. And I agree that is probably what happened. How are you suggesting that it gets fixed; take everyone’s discretion away?

Do want this guy arrested, convicted, and his career destroyed because he carried a gun into a school, or because you can’t carry a gun into a school?

[Fallguy]

Because I can't carry one...

[DaveTN]

Because I can't carry one...

Why, aren’t you friends with the Sheriff and the DA?

[Fallguy]

Why, aren’t you friends with the Sheriff and the DA?

With the Sheriff to some degree...not so much the DA since mine is the same as in this thread/story...

[chances R]

If I were a school resource Officer and I noticed you were carrying (printing, whatever) while in there for something to do with your kid, I would quietly ask you step outside and I would remind you of the law. If you said you didn’t know you couldn’t carry there, or forgot you were carrying; I would just ask that you make sure it doesn’t happen again. I think most of the cops I know would do the same thing as long as no one else saw it or had complained.

We didn’t have carry permits where I was a cop, but we let a lot of stuff slide when we could. Most of the cops I knew were pro-gun and wanted our state to adopt carry laws. I know that’s not the popular consensus around here, but it’s just my observation from having been a street cop. I have only had the opportunity to talk to a couple of Tennessee cops, and we talked about carrying past a sign. They said they would simply ask people to leave, and arrest them if they refused; but they said they had never had an HCP holder refuse to leave.

I understand that a school is a whole other issue, especially if the Resource Officer has been approached by a freaked out soccer mom, teacher, or a 911 call has been made.

I’m on a gun forum on the internet…. Of course its a fantasy world.

Nothing wrong with a little common sense winning out..........being in short supply as it is. I agree with a previous poster that a well-meaning, decent citizen should not wind up with a felony for this. It was not the perfect way to get the desired effect, but none the less, the primary, potential victim here was saved, and to me it was the right call for this situation.

[JayC]

Nothing wrong with a little common sense winning out..........being in short supply as it is. I agree with a previous poster that a well-meaning, decent citizen should not wind up with a felony for this. It was not the perfect way to get the desired effect, but none the less, the primary, potential victim here was saved, and to me it was the right call for this situation.

If this was a 'decent citizen' I think we'd all agree, but in this case it's a 'political connected bureaucrat' who got off, and the 'decent citizen' who did the same thing would likely have been charged.

A perfect example is the guy who had a knife pulled on him in a school parking lot, grabbed his holstered firearm, which caused the attacker to run off... but because he didn't 'clear leather' he was convicted of a felony.

[MikePapa1]

Maybe I missed something but wasn't this guy the school superintendent? You know the guy in charge of schools. I can't understand the desire here to suggest that one size fits all. What would be the advantage to anyone if the Superintendent had been arrested and prosecuted? I guess I'm missing it but I don't see the outrage here. DaveTN has expressed the common sense way of looking at it. Most cops I know would have handled this the same way. Do we really want School Superintendents arrested, jailed and prosecuted for something the the consensus here is a stupid law? I just don't see it.

[JayC]

Maybe I missed something but wasn't this guy the school superintendent? You know the guy in charge of schools. I can't understand the desire here to suggest that one size fits all. What would be the advantage to anyone if the Superintendent had been arrested and prosecuted? I guess I'm missing it but I don't see the outrage here. DaveTN has expressed the common sense way of looking at it. Most cops I know would have handled this the same way. Do we really want School Superintendents arrested, jailed and prosecuted for something the the consensus here is a stupid law? I just don't see it.

Mike,

What do you think the chances are the DA would have pressed charges if a parent with a HCP had been the one seen instead of the Superintendent?

I can't speak for others... but my opinion is it's a stupid law, and if the 'political' class had to suffer under the same stupid laws as the rest of us... They might stop passing stupid laws, and start getting rid of stupid laws. But since there is a different set of rules for public servants, they don't feel the same pain as the rest of us.

Had the DA said, this is a stupid law, and I'm not going to charge an otherwise law abiding citizens in my county for this behavior.... we'd all be trying to talk this DA into running for higher office. But, this guy clearly IMHO broke the law, and the DA didn't charge him because of how politically connected he was... not over some objection to how stupid our carry laws are.

I'll point out this DA doesn't have the best track record... he's happy to take private property (via asset seizure - don't even get me started on that) and use it for his own personal benefit... So this DA is both dirty and happy to give a pass to other politically connected people...

You're right I don't see any problem with this DA and his logic at all

[-boatman-]

This would answer the question. Same DA, same school, a respected member of the community that is not politically connected carry a firearm into the school by accident and it be discovered that he was carrying. What would the DA do after letting this one go? That might put him between a rock and a hard place. I think we all know what he would want to do.

[Fallguy]

Yes...stupid law, but stupid for ALL, not just the superintendent.

[JayC]

This would answer the question. Same DA, same school, a respected member of the community that is not politically connected carry a firearm into the school by accident and it be discovered that he was carrying. What would the DA do after letting this one go? That might put him between a rock and a hard place. I think we all know what he would want to do.

Keep in mind the superintendent didn't forget he had a firearm on... he intended to go armed. Big difference... One in theory is a misdemeanor the other a felony. Both are completely useless and stupid laws.

[Fallguy]

He has been indicted by a Grand Jury after the case was presented by a citizen, not the DA.

http://www.wbbjtv.com/news/local/Hardin-County-Superintendent-Indicted-143432846.html

[DaveTN]

So…. Who is Jerry Fowler and what is his motive for pursuing this? Please forgive me if I don’t buy into the “concerned citizen†BS.

[Guest infinity40]

It's a DA that took a pro gun position, and a school super that took a pro gun position...

It's a good day Tater!

[DaveTN]

It's a good day Tater!

For the anti-gun folks maybe; not for us. He’s been indicted and arrested.

[Fallguy]

Not really sure who this guy is.

I see two possible motives....a misguided attempt to change the law (unlikely) or simply a trouble maker looking for attention.

I'm all for citizens taking action if they believe their officials have been derelict in their duty, but I really don't think this guy is quite so noble...

[Fallguy]

It's a DA that took a pro gun position, and a school super that took a pro gun position...

It's a good day Tater!

I really don't think the DA or super are pro-gun as much as the DA was just trying to not stir things up and was like that because this guy is the super and I think the super was more, "I'm the superintendent of schools and I can do what I want in the school."