Can you shoot 3" groups at 10 yards with an LCP?

[johnk4jmk]

well this has been on my mind ever since this thread started, i posted very early on i could not do it,well i tried it yesterday with the lcp, and yes with very slow fire, firing inbetween breaths and extreme focus on the front sights i shot 5 shots in just under a 3'' group. that was first try, tried a second mag and could not do it hands started shaking a little because of the trigger of the lcp. i would post a pic but i dont use photobucket.like i said in earlier post i shoot alot so your friend doing it rapid fire i doubt it. the lcp is a belly gun anyway 5 feet in a shtf situation.

[Guest pfries]

The target I posted was not rapid fire by any means, doubt I could keep 8" groups regularly rapid fire.

[Dave Shooter]

I have managed to shoot 3" groups at 10 yds with my LCP, BUT that was shooting from a rest just to see if could be done. You have to concentrate on having a very consistent grip as well as those miniscule sights.

It really is a bad breathe distance gun.

[Guest twpayne75]

I get tickled when I shoot with people the first time. I have been with several "great hunters" that I know hunt all the time and actually have dropped several deer. After shooting with some of them I think the deer must have died from blount force trauma caused by running into something to evade the hunter after a missed shot. Some could not shoot M.O.B. (minute of barn).

Peoples groups tend to tighten after the fact. The more after, the more the tighten.

I will be honest here. Hopefully noone reads this. Not with a rifle, but with a handgun, my wife will out shoot me 9 times out of 10. I can get mine out and use it much quicker. But as far as at a range where you can't actually draw anyway, she will smoke me.

She probably fires 500 rounds a year all together. I probably fire ten times that.

My avatar picture is of a target she shot at CCA. She had already wore the center out. I smartassly told her it still wasn't dead, no headshot. So then she made one. That was at about 30 feet I guess. She just turned around and said "Is that better". (Yes, she's a smartass too)

She took a picture of it and told me I needed to make it my avatar when we got home. She hung the target up on the back of the bathroom door in our bedroom, just so I could see it whenever I wanted to.

Edited December 26, 2011 by twpayne75

[deadeye111]

Anybody try painting the front sight on their LCP/P3AT?

I painted the sights on my P3AT with gloss white "Testers" paint for model airplanes and used clear fingernail polish over the paint after it dried. The white paint helped find the front sight.

[EastHipster]

I had Keltecs (P11 and p32) for a long time.

I could stay on center mass about 80% doing rapid fire mag dump at 30 feet.

I decided that for now, a Glock 26 is as small as I will carry.

THAT one I can do 3" groups

[TnShooter83]

Not standing. Standing, I was able to put all shots in a 8" circle.

On a rest maybe, but I doubt I could do it with any regularity.

I only fired 2 mags through the pistol, I was happy with that accuracy.

The long trigger pull was awkward and it felt too small to hold comfortably.

[JReedEsq]

I had Keltecs (P11 and p32) for a long time.

I could stay on center mass about 80% doing rapid fire mag dump at 30 feet.

I decided that for now, a Glock 26 is as small as I will carry.

THAT one I can do 3" groups

+1000. The Glock 26 really is a sweet spot for a pistol that is easy to carry, easy to shoot, reasonable capacity and a service caliber. It is sooo much easier to shoot and shoot quickly than any of the .380 pocket pistols. My range time with my G17 carries over to the 26. It is just alot more comforting to have eleven 124 grain Gold Dots that I can put on target than to have seven .380 rounds with a long reset and nearly no sights. My G26 is my usual summer gun and my go-to for descreet carry in the winter. Precisely why the P3AT is a niche gun for me. I keep it for exercise or to stick in my pocket when I'm mowing the yard etc...

Edited December 28, 2011 by JReedEsq

[bigwakes]

I can shooT 3" groups at ten yards with my eyes closed with my Glock 27.

[gregintenn]

I can shooT 3" groups at ten yards with my eyes closed with my Glock 27.

Please post a video of this.

[gregintenn]

I did dispatch a young opossum this evening with mine at an extimated distance of 10 yards. I missed with the first shot, plowing dirt right next to him. As he began to run, I put the second shot right through his shoulders. I derive more confidence with that than from shooting paper.

[JAB]

I don't have an LCP but I do have a P3AT. Now you have me wondering how well (or badly) I could do. I'll have to try it out with the P3AT this weekend.

I really want to like the LCR and it's probably light enough for a cycling jersey pocket, but not light enough for running.

I'm not a runner so carrying while running is not something in which I can share experiences. That said, I have had a P3AT for years (was bought as a first gen NIB if that tells you how long I have had it - although it has since been sent back to Kel Tec under warranty and they built it into a 2nd gen on my old frame.) Last year I bought a S&W 642 which is about the same size as the LCR. Being a bit more of a 'revolver' guy, I love the 642 and having it has greatly limited the carry time my P3AT now sees.

That said, I still wouldn't get rid of the P3AT as it still outshines the 642 in some aspects. The weight difference is of no real consequence to me but the size difference is. The P3AT is a good bit thinner than the wheelgun. This means that, for me - even though a small .38 is kind of the archetype for ankle guns - the P3AT works much better for the rare occasions that I need to ankle carry.

I can't stand IWB carry - even with the P3AT - but in some circumstances I will use a belly band worn low so that the grips are positioned just above my waistband. Again because of the thinness, the P3AT works really well for that - much better than the 642. Heck, just last night I decided to carry my P3AT OWB in a FOBUS I have for it and, because of the thinness and overall size, it completely disappeared under just an untucked Polo type shirt without even having to wear an undershirt to keep it from rubbing my side.

Finally, if I am going to pocket carry, some of my pants have pockets that are shallow enough to allow the rear of the 642 grip to just barely peek out. You'd think that would make for an easier pocket draw but I find it to be just the opposite - not to mention the only reason I would pocket carry anyway would be for deep concealment and having the grips peeking out kind of defeats that purpose. In those same pockets, however, the P3AT will disappear completely - with the added bonus that the homemade leather holster I made for it also carries a spare mag.

I am typing all of this to say that there are likely other factors you wouldn't even notice until you started actually carrying the LCR that might make you regret getting rid of the P3AT. I hope my .02 helps.

Edited January 6, 2012 by JAB

[JAB]

Okay, I'm digging this thread up because I finally got my little P3AT out to see what I could do. Based on my results, I would say that - if the LCP is as comparable to the P3AT as I believe - the claim made by the OP's friend of being able to shoot 5 inch groups rapid fire from 30 feet with an LCP is entirely plausible and even likely if he practices very much. My results that lead me to believe that?

I got out at the shooting spot in the yard and, using a tape, measured off 30 feet from the target. The targets I was using were printed off the Internet. I guess I didn't format them just right because the largest, outside circle is not really 8 inches. In fact, measuring shows the circle to be more like 6.5 inches, instead.

Now, I haven't been carrying the P3AT nearly as much - in fact, not much at all - since getting a S&W 642 last year. Therefore, I haven't been shooting it very much, either. Until doing this little 'test' yesterday, I hadn't shot it in at least two months and haven't put in any regular practice with it in probably a year or more. That said, I shot it a lot back when I carried it more and so I am pretty familiar with the gun.

At 30 feet (ten yards), using only the front sight and what I would consider rapid fire - the first time I have even shot the thing in a couple of months - I was able to put four of the six shots in a four inch group. If one is considering three shots to be a group then I succeeded. I choked on the last two shots but this was shooting cold with a gun I hadn't shot in months and without 'warming up' with another gun first. I'm also not all that great a shot. I figure that someone who is practicing regularly with it - especially if they are a better shot than me (which wouldn't be hard to achieve) then that person should be able to rapid fire all six into at least a five inch group.

Just for the heck of it, after putting a couple more mags through the gun to warm up a little, I decided to try shooting it a little more slowly and actually use the sights. Doing that, I was able to put all six into a four inch group from 30 feet. In other words, despite the myth that these little guns are only good out to arm's length, they have plenty of potential accuracy. As in my case, the accuracy failure lies not with the gun but the portion of the shooting system standing behind it.

Edited January 23, 2012 by JAB

[edellson]

On a 25' slow fire target if I get on paper rapid fire with my keltec 380 I am happy.

[gregintenn]

In other words, despite the myth that these little guns are only good out to arm's length, they have plenty of potential accuracy. As in my case, the accuracy failure lies not with the gun but the portion of the shooting system standing behind it.

Truer words have never been spoken. The reason I can't do it is purely me! The little gun shows great accuracy potential. A short sight radius, long, stiff trigger pull, a grip barely large enough to hold on to, and nearly nonexistant sights all add up to a gun that is difficult to shoot well. Add this to the fact that I'm, at best, a mediocre handgun shot, and yet I can still hit a target with it tells me that the little LCP could be a tack driver in the right hands.

[McAllyn]

5" group, 30 feet, rapid fire.... can it be done? Sure. Can I do it? Doubtful. Have I ever shot an LCP? No. Fact of the matter is, anyone can become very proficient with any platform if they practice correctly and frequently. That being said, I'd still offer a bet to your buddy and make him produce when it counts. Money on the line always seems to make the wind blow harder, light shine brighter, ammo become less reliable, etc.

Seems like someone once recommended a way to test your abilities in a "high-stress" situation. I think it was facing uprange, run in place for 60 seconds, immediately turn, draw, and fire a 5 shot group in 10 seconds. Sounds like a long time, but when your heart is beating, you're trying to find your target, and get those sights lined up, 10 seconds goes by with the quickness. I tried something like this with my 26, I did MOBg (Minute of Bad guy) and walked away happy. Admittedly, my "pattern" looked like a Jackson Pollack painting, but they would have all bled.

Mac

[Jonnin]

Its pretty neat how accurate guns really are, once you get rid of the shooter

that said, this is the wrong test for this type of gun. I doubt one person in 50 can land 6/6 with this type of weapon and this type of shooting. Slow down a little. Make each shot count. If you want to hit the target 6 times in 10 seconds, fire 15 times from a highcap!

[peejman]

Anybody try painting the front sight on their LCP/P3AT?

I got to make a direct P3AT/LCP comparison over the weekend. A friend just bought an LCP and painted the sights. My P3AT has a slip-on Hogue grip.

The glow-in-the-dark white paint on the sights made a big difference in sight picture acquisition. Can't really say whether I was faster or more accurate (there were already a bunch of holes in the target) but it certainly made me feel more confident. He gave me the paint he used so I'll be adding it to mine shortly.

The slip-on Hogue made a big difference in grip confidence and comfort. Again, no objective evidence, but the gun felt more secure with the Hogue and cushioned the recoil noticeably. He said he was gonna buy one for his LCP.

[JAB]

Its pretty neat how accurate guns really are, once you get rid of the shooter that said, this is the wrong test for this type of gun. I doubt one person in 50 can land 6/6 with this type of weapon and this type of shooting. Slow down a little. Make each shot count. If you want to hit the target 6 times in 10 seconds, fire 15 times from a highcap!

Oh, I put six rounds into a four inch group from 10 yards with the P3AT in somewhere around ten or twelve seconds. I don't consider that to be rapid fire, really. It was when I was pulling the trigger as quickly as I possibly could that I only put four out of six on target. Maybe I am underestimating the amount of time. I actually shot video with my cellphone but can't get it to upload directly to Photobucket (I upload pics directly from my phone but I guess the video is the wrong format.) When I get the chance, I'll load the vids onto my computer so I can put them into a format that will load onto Photobucket and let you guys judge if I was shooting 'rapid fire' or not. I read an article once in which the writer argued that, contrary to the belief held by many, being able to do well in shooting eight inch circle targets well does have use when practicing with a defensive handgun. IIRC, the writer actually felt that being able to do so might be more useful than simply being able to keep all shots center of mass on a B27 and I tend to agree with the point. After all, if I can't at least keep all my shots in an 8 inch circle from ten yards with no pressure then how the heck could I expect to keep the majority of shots on a larger but probably moving target at, say, five yards when my life is at risk? Edited January 24, 2012 by JAB

[JAB]

The slip-on Hogue made a big difference in grip confidence and comfort. Again, no objective evidence, but the gun felt more secure with the Hogue and cushioned the recoil noticeably. He said he was gonna buy one for his LCP.

I have a slip-on Hogue Handall, Jr. on mine, too. I also have a pinky extension - which, in my case, is actually more of a ring finger extension as my pinky still won't fit on the grip - on my carry mag (but not on the spare.) Those two things make a HUGE difference in the ability to grip, control and shoot these little guns.

Of course, the Hogue has to be chopped/customized to fit and it is still a little loose. One of these days, if I ever come across one, I am going to pick up one of the Pachmayr grips that is supposed to be made specifically for the LCP/P3AT.

I will also say that, having owned both a first gen and second gen P3AT (actually the same gun - Kel Tec built a second gen on my first gen frame under warranty) that the sights on the second gen are much more usable. The same thing that, IMO, makes the second gen not look as good - the flat topped slide - makes it much easier to get a sight picture, for me. As the LCP is a copy of the second gen P3AT, not the first, I would guess that holds true for the Ruger, too.

Edited January 24, 2012 by JAB

[JAB]

Okay, here are the videos. The first one is the 'rapid fire' video - I want you guys to tell me if you would consider my rate of fire to be 'rapid fire'. Going by the video countdown timer, if I am correct, it looks to me like I fired all six shots in about four seconds. That is the one where I only put four shots on target (choked on the last two shots.) However, when I say something in the video about putting them in a six and a half inch circle I am talking about the size of the target circle, not the group size. I didn't think to measure the group size at first. However, at the end of the second video I measured the group size for both the rapid fire, four shot group (first video) and slower fire six shot group (second video.) Both measured out to four inches. In the second (slow, aimed fire) video, again if I am judging correctly by the timer, it seems that my estimate in an earlier post of firing six shots in ten to twelve seconds was about right. Both videos started with a fresh target. There is one annoying thing about these videos (well, at least one.) I shot them with my cell phone using the kick stand on my cell phone case to stand it up (I put my spare P3AT mag under the kick stand to get the angle downrange that I needed.) What I didn't think of was that I should have shot the video with the cellphone turned sideways. Because I shot it with the phone standing up - although it looks fine on the cellphone screen - when I transfer the video from the phone it ends up being sideways on the computer screen. That is annoying but shouldn't impact the point of the videos.

Also, for the record, I am wearing hearing protection in the videos. I am using earplugs that might not be immediately visible in the videos. Before anyone says anything, no I wasn't wearing eye protection. I generally don't unless I am at a formal shooting range. I am aware of the potential risks and it is a personal choice.

Edited January 25, 2012 by JAB

[peejman]

I agree with your assessment.

[Jonnin]

I would count the first one as rapid fire, better than 1 shot per 2 seconds and plenty fast. I could empty my sig faster. I don't know if I would hit anything if I did that, though!

[gregintenn]

Good shooting, JAB! Now I'm going to try and get this crick out of my neck.