How Fast and Accurate Are You?

[Guest Ramtough47]

How fast are you?

Here is the scenario:You stand in a shooters box with 2 targets in the 12:00 and 3:00 position from you.Distance is 3yrds to one and 4.5 to 5 yrds on the other.At the buzzer shooter has to draw and shoot whichever target he wants to go with first,5 times THEN do a mandatory RELOAD and engage remaining target with 5 shots.

Total of 10 shots alltogther.Shooter will also start with hands relaxed at side.

I had to shoot this scenario Sunday as a qualifier in both PRODUCTION and LIMITED.On the way home i got to thinking about how simple the drill but yet,how may people who carry may have a problem with this as far as time is concerned.

Everyone give me you honest,no BS answer on this....How fast do you think you could the above mentioned drill.Remember you have to DRAW,SHOOT 5,RELOAD,and SHOOT 5 more times and hit the A zone.

I will give you some times i witnessed Sunday after i see the responses posted here.

[saintsfanbrian]

Well, not 100% sure on this exact scenario, but for a speech I gave in college, I was able to get off a total of 58 rounds at 4 different distances including reloading magazines in less than 10 minutes. I know that doesn't sound impressive but the shots were all within the 8 ring of the target and distances ran from 7 feet up to 25 feet. The point was to prove to the class that an armed gunman can take out up to 58 targets with out too much trouble. I only had 2 magazines for my Glock which is why the majority of the time it took was to manually reload 2 mags. Imagine if I had 4 magazines ready to go. That time would have dropped drastically.

This is a good thing to try, provided the range will allow it. I know that most people are pretty fast once they are ready, but what about when you aren't. Try it at home with an unloaded pistol. Please make sure all ammo is in a totally seperate room.

[molonlabetn]

Just did a few 'dry runs' of what you describe, with a stop-watch... Between 7 & 8 seconds. I think that's a pretty realistic.

[Guest 0down]

We did something close to that at an IDPA match last week.

One target at about 4 yards. On signal, draw and engage with six rounds

to the body. Reload from slide lock and reengage with six rounds.

The fastest was 5.09 and the slowest was 9.96

[Guest Shay VanVlymen]

I think I could shoot it in about six or seven seconds from concealment. I'll set it up and run it next time I'm at the range.

BTW, I sat in that traffic backup on 40 for over an hour on Sunday.

[Guest Ramtough47]

Shay i can belive you on how long you had to wait on I-40 Sunday.I had just hit the interstate[Exit 163] when i saw the East line back-up. I quickly called Allen to let him know so he could pass the word to any of the instructors who "might" be heading towards Nashville...to go elsewhere.Sorry to hear i was to late.

Wait till you see the time i witnessed Sunday on the drill i have described.

[Guest GlocKingTN]

I will give it a try as well! Just to see how good I do!

[Guest Shay VanVlymen]

Shay i can belive you on how long you had to wait on I-40 Sunday.I had just hit the interstate[Exit 163] when i saw the East line back-up. I quickly called Allen to let him know so he could pass the word to any of the instructors who "might" be heading towards Nashville...to go elsewhere.Sorry to hear i was to late.

Wait till you see the time i witnessed Sunday on the drill i have described.

Allen called me but I was already stuck in the jam with no exit in sight. I made it through but it added some serious time to my trip.

I'll be shooting this stage as a test on Saturday. I'll post my times here.

[Guest jackdog]

Hey I'm game, I ll give a try this week and let you know. Five rounds to a target seems a bit much to me though. I assume your reload is to simulate a weapons failure. In real life I would go two to the first target 2 rounds to the second target and see if anyone needed a third round. These things are fun to mess with but they don't make since in real situations to me,

Jackdog

[Guest Voodoo_1]

On the way home i got to thinking about how simple the drill but yet,how may people who carry may have a problem with this as far as time is concerned.

In a sporting situation this would be a fun drill to run, but in real life it makes no sense what so ever. Think about it, while you are putting 5 rds. into the first BG and then reload, the second BG is putting 5 rds. into YOU.

[molonlabetn]

Agreed.

A more realistic scenario would be to have someone load your magazine with a random # of rounds above a dummy round, with a few more live rounds below... Total of 6 live rounds in the first mag, 4 in the spare. The shooter must engage both targets with all 10 rounds between both mags, clearing the random stoppage in the first mag before continuing and reloading.

That kind of thing is good practice.

[shaftbass]

Don't try to change it, just shoot it. If you want to shoot a different scenario, then set up and shoot a different scenario along with this one. This one is the way it is, so just leave it.

[towerclimber37]

they're both good scenarios! I'll try some version of all the scenarios here when I get home...but to me it seems that jackdog has the best...2 rounds for each bg..then apply a curative as needed for those still moving.

still..reef, your scenario promotes accuracy during rapid fire as well as rapid fire accuracy with multiple targets...niiiice!

[Guest db99wj]

Got to remember the difference in shooting a BG (self defense) vs sport shooting. The scenario mentioned is perfect for sport shooting.

[Guest jackdog]

I agree the scenario was for sport shooting so I will do it that way. Guess I'm just old and stuck in my ways. I think training needs to be based on scerianos that you might find yourself in. But Will shoot as outlined in the original post.

Jackdog

[Guest db99wj]

I agree the scenario was for sport shooting so I will do it that way. Guess I'm just old and stuck in my ways. I think training needs to be based on scerianos that you might find yourself in. But Will shoot as outlined in the original post.

Jackdog

The reason I brought that up is that sometimes the line between self defense and sport gets blurred. Why put a target at 100 yards and shoot it with a handgun????? Because is is fun and we or most can!!!! I shoot for two reasons, self defense and for fun.

Range.........$10

100 rounds....$20

Time............1 hour

Vs.

Therapy for an hour at $100 or more!!!!!!!

Result: Feel much better after shooting which is Priceless!

[Guest Ramtough47]

Guys i like some of the responses i am seeing here just remember this: This is a SKILL test thats all.Has nothing to do with Tactic or what would you do in a real world situation.This drill will test you on:

[1]The draw

[2]Sight alignment and front sight focus

[3]Trigger maniplation

[4]Recoil mangement

[5]Reload...under stress and time

[6]target transition

[7] Last but not least Shot placement

That it.

I will go ahead and tell ya'll i watched a GrandMaster do this drill in 3.90 seconds.Thats right 3.90! That means a .85 to .95 draw,maintaining a .15 to ,17 split time[time between shots] and on his reload somewhere in the .65 to .85 range....that gentleman is SMOKING.

Now he will be the first to tell you that he would not be able to do this with his everyday carry rig,BUT does anyone here think that he wouldn't still be able to do within say a 1.5 to 2.0 second,which would still having him do all of this under 6 seconds.Now if you factor in that in a real world situation he will be moving off the X while drawing and he will not be locked into shooting a set number of shots,he still will be able or probably do this under 5 seconds.

Guys this is why i shoot USPSA and train with Tactical Response.Guys like Yeager,Allen and Shay give me the mindset.USPSA provides me a way to improve my SKILLS and have fun doing it.

[Guest Greentimber]

I worked on some very similar drills during my last range trip. Based on my timed results from last weekend with concealment gear/concealed it would be right at around 5.5 seconds. That's with some movement thrown in during my practice so maybe just a hair under that if standing still for the purposes of the drill.

Broken down it would be:

Draw & fire first shot at 1.31 with four more shots at a .2 split for a time of 2.11

Reload from concealment while transitioning to target 2 in 2.3 (to shot #6) plus another .2 split for four rounds bringing us to a time of 5.21. Throw in a quarter second for good measure and it would be at 5.5 seconds.

A really good shooter could easily get that to 4.5 or under. I'm not one. I'm sure Shay will discover his above-stated expectations are surpassed when he tries it.

As for tactics, (absent cover) my preferred tactical option here would add no time whatsoever to your engagement as long as you can shoot on the move. Whatever you do, don't just stand there.

[Guest Shay VanVlymen]

So, I shot this today.

I got out of my truck, set up the two IPSC targets (3 and 5 yards at a 90 degree angle), loaded up some mags with ball ammo, replaced my carry mags, stepped up and shot the course cold. Draw…shoot 5…reload/turn…shoot 5.

Time: 8 seconds. All ‘A’ hits.

1. It was 22 degrees on the range with a stiff wind blowing. Windchill was in the teens.

2. I shot it from concealment with a heavy jacket, fleece and T-shirt all zipped up and covering my gun and spare mag.

3. I shot with my daily carry gun and holster (Glock 19 in an IWB Bladetech).

Not terrible but not great. I need to get back to some gun games for the trigger time and skills practice. I’ve been looking at some local matches to see how many I can make with my schedule.

[Guest Hyaloid]

From concealment with heavy clothing? It'd take me 8 seconds to find all my zippers

[robbiev]

How fast are you?

Here is the scenario:You stand in a shooters box with 2 targets in the 12:00 and 3:00 position from you.Distance is 3yrds to one and 4.5 to 5 yrds on the other.At the buzzer shooter has to draw and shoot whichever target he wants to go with first,5 times THEN do a mandatory RELOAD and engage remaining target with 5 shots.

Total of 10 shots alltogther.Shooter will also start with hands relaxed at side.

I am going to try this in the next few days. Just so I'm sure I've got the scenario right:

Two targets total. One directly in front of me at 3 yards, one to my right (3 o'clock position) at 4.5 - 5 yards. Draw, engage one target with 5 rounds, reload, then engage the other target with 5 rounds. Correct?

Just a guess; I think I can do it with my standard carry rig, unconcealed, in under 6 seconds.

[Guest jackdog]

I was actually going to shoot the thing yesterday, But ended up going to the mall with Susan. Lets see malls are full of stores that sell highly overpriced crap made in foriegn counries, by people who get paid slave wages. Malls also don't like us carry guys. Conclusion, I hate malls and have enough crap in my home already. With luck I'll shoot it today.

Jackdog

[Guest jackdog]

Finally got out this AM and shot the scenario. Before I tell you my time, let me say that if you havent tried this you need to. It will show you were you have weak points.

Ok all hits for both myself and my neighbor were A hits.

My time 6.1461 seconds

His time 7.2713 seconds

I learned that I need to really work on the reload, only had one stop watch going but the reload is where my time went to crap.

I think with practice I could easily get to the low 5 second range, upper four second range is a maybe.

We shot it a couple more times but we did not use the stop watch.

Will do some practice and then try it again. It was fun and as I said before very informative, come on guys give it a go.

[G17]

I tried it today!!!!! I shot +5 reload +5 = 5.01 seconds with -2 down???? But I'm not as fast & accurate as Ramtough !!!!!! I know because I've shot with him on several occasians !!!!!! But I can still hold my own????

[towerclimber37]

:Dwow...yah, g17...You'll do. unless you missed both targets completely, then I don't think the BG's would have much gumption left in them.