Road Rage involving Oak Ridge officers in Knoxville

[Fallguy]

I'm wondering something here, and this may have allready been covered. I know police can't arrest a police officer on duty even if they commit a felony in there presence but what about when there on there way to work? I'm asking this because it was brought up where I worked years ago. Same kind of holds true for some elected officials. All this may be irrelevant but it was one of the first things to come to my mind. I'm not saying the LEO's were in the right.

Never heard of this...

[Fallguy]

I haven't really seen that this has been a Hypothetical discussion although it is a discussion we will most likely never know what really happened since I am sure both sides have some blame but pulling a Gun on an unarmed person over an incident that really was over when you didn't get in front of him.

It does remind me of a time when something similar happen to me when a guy in a truck tried to get in front of my company truck & didn't quite make it so he chased us & I really thought I would be forced to defend my self. Ended up finding a marked patrol car but the Officer was off duty & didn't want to get involved when I flagged him down although when the other driver saw me stop him he fled the area. I have been carrying a gun since the Sheriff issued the permits & even with the handful of incidence I have encountered I have never even pulled it from the holster because I was originally taught just brandishing the weapon could be very bad since I'm not protected same as a LEO is so don't pull it unless I intend on pulling the trigger. I do understand it is different for LEOs though & rightfully so but in some instances I think they are wrong which is just my opinion.

No, talking about this situation and how things may have been if a fact or two was different isn't what I was talking about.

I more or less misread your post, my bad.

[TMF]

I'll admit, I'm forming opinions here in a vacuum due to the way the story smells, but if we focus on the facts once they come out it will be fairly clear whether or not they committed a crime:

Fact: Weapon(s) were pulled by one or more of the officers.

Fact: There is a third party witness that also reported the incident.

Fact: Both officers were not in uniform and were traveling in a POV.

Critical Unknown: Were the police officers on duty?

Critical Unknown: What did the alleged victim do to provoke the officers' actions?

Those last two unknowns will justify or criminalize the officers' actions. Hopefully those facts will come out in the near future, but I guess if the DA chooses not to do anything about it we'll never know until the civil suit.

[DaveTN]

Fact: Weapon(s) were pulled by one or more of the officers.

That’s not a fact that’s an accusation.

Fact: There is a third party witness that also reported the incident.

But we don’t know what they said or if they have been interviewed.

Hopefully those facts will come out in the near future, but I guess if the DA chooses not to do anything about it we'll never know until the civil suit.

I predict we will find out shortly.

[TMF]

But we don’t know what they said or if they have been interviewed.

We do know that there was a third party that witnessed the event and that they called 911. What they saw has yet to be revealed.

As to the truthiness of the report of them pulling their weapons, I guess you're right, it is an unsubstantiated accusation. I'm making the assumption that weapons were pulled due to the manner in which the story was reported; it's easier to believe that there were weapons pulled since I'm certain the alleged victim wouldn't know that they were armed unless he saw the weapons. If it is all an elaborate fabrication than I would expect to see severe charges brought against the alleged victim for false reporting and such. But yes, it remains an allegation.

[Guest mcgyver210]

We do know that there was a third party that witnessed the event and that they called 911. What they saw has yet to be revealed.

As to the truthiness of the report of them pulling their weapons, I guess you're right, it is an unsubstantiated accusation. I'm making the assumption that weapons were pulled due to the manner in which the story was reported; it's easier to believe that there were weapons pulled since I'm certain the alleged victim wouldn't know that they were armed unless he saw the weapons. If it is all an elaborate fabrication than I would expect to see severe charges brought against the alleged victim for false reporting and such. But yes, it remains an allegation.

Also there are incidence similar to this daily that no one calls 911 for so makes me think there was a weapon involved.

[Guest WyattEarp]

Wyatt, do you see that's what I was talking about? Because he was arrested in the past a lot of people will assume he is not telling the truth now. We don't know the story on his previous arrest but we do know the charges were dismissed. Innocent until proven guilty, right. And we still don't know the background on these officers.

TMF 18B, yeah, what you said.

I see what you're talking about, and I might understand your point of view if his incident had been several years or more since it happened. But the fact of the matter is, it happened last year, and even though the charges were dismissed after he paid costs (an admission of guilt by court standards), he still recently had this issue. People with these issues, don't just get over them in a year. What about any incidents involving this guy that never got reported? I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, and I've been in his position, where I have screwed up and found myself in trouble with the law and then had it dropped, and I had to work my ass off (and still am) to make sure it doesn't happen again. We're all human and we make mistakes, but if some new incident were to happen involving me, I'd be subject to the same criticism as Estep is receiving in terms of his past history.

Obviously, this guy learned nothing though. He had the one incident last year, and now he's in the media and is once again involved in a similar incident, and he even said he got out of his car to confront them. Obviously, the guy likes confrontation and controversy. At what point, does your common sense kick in and you realize it's just not worth it? When they flipped the bird, he should have just kept on driving and this would have never happened. He chose to escalate it, because he either likes the attention, or he's trying to bait someone in to do something stupid so he can get a big payday.

Well, it could be because unlike a citizen, these Officers can be called in by their department and ask to make a written follow-up report to the incident. They have two choices then; make the report, or invoke the 5^th.

What caught my eye is that one Officer is on “Modified Duty” and the other Officer is not. That, to me, implies that either something happened that is putting that Officers actions in question, or he is refusing to make a statement. Also, they talk about presenting it to the DA. If the investigations fails to show any wrong doing and they don’t have RAS or PC to believe anything happened; there isn’t anything to present to the DA. On the other hand if the investigation turns up nothing they could simply be presenting it to the DA to be totally transparent and letting the DA make the decision on whether or not to close the complaint.

These types of accusations generally are made to the same department where the Officer works. I guess the fact that two departments are involved could be slowing this investigation down. I think it’s important to note that the alleged victim says “It appears that KPD has responded to his complaint and is conducting a thorough investigation”. If he’s satisfied with the way things are going, that’s all anyone can ask at this point.

ok thanks Dave! I just didn't understand why they weren't formally interviewing them, and wanted clarification.

[Bubba0031]

I have what may sound like a simple minded question and since I've not read all of the previous 157 posts and most likely not all of the media relative to this so the answer to my question may be out there somewhere.

If I understand the physical position of the two vehicles Mr. Estep did not allow the officers to exit the parking lot in front of him or as he describes it "cut him off". That means Mr. Estep was in front of the officers. There is no clairifcation as to whether there were other vehicles behind Mr. Estep so therefore it 's not known if the officers pulled out directly behind Mr. Estep of if they had to wait on other vehicles and therefore whether there were other vehicles between Mr. Estep and the Toyota carrying the officers. If Estep was driving away then how did a confortation take place unles Mr. Estep stopped in front of the officers thereby initiating the confrontation. Also Mr. Estep claims he returned to his vehicle, drove to safety while following the officers vehicle, recording the license plate number and calling KPD. Again how could this be taking place if Mr. Estep was in front of the Toyota? Lastly how was the officers place of employment determinded just the vehicle registration?

[DaveTN]

I have what may sound like a simple minded question and since I've not read all of the previous 157 posts and most likely not all of the media relative to this so the answer to my question may be out there somewhere.

If I understand the physical position of the two vehicles Mr. Estep did not allow the officers to exit the parking lot in front of him or as he describes it "cut him off". That means Mr. Estep was in front of the officers. There is no clairifcation as to whether there were other vehicles behind Mr. Estep so therefore it 's not known if the officers pulled out directly behind Mr. Estep of if they had to wait on other vehicles and therefore whether there were other vehicles between Mr. Estep and the Toyota carrying the officers. If Estep was driving away then how did a confortation take place unles Mr. Estep stopped in front of the officers thereby initiating the confrontation. Also Mr. Estep claims he returned to his vehicle, drove to safety while following the officers vehicle, recording the license plate number and calling KPD. Again how could this be taking place if Mr. Estep was in front of the Toyota? Lastly how was the officers place of employment determinded just the vehicle registration?

The way I read the story he claims that he stopped at a light and they jumped out and approached him. After the incident he may have slowed down or pulled over and allowed them to pass.

He said they identified themselves as Police Officers. The Officer that took the report confirmed the vehicle checked to an Oak Ridge Officer. That could have been because they knew the name or they called Oak Ridge PD.

[R_Bert]

The silence from ORPD continues to be deafening.....

The articals have now dropped off both the KNS and Oak Ridger web sites

[billyscott]

Two weeks. No official word. How long does it take?

[DaveTN]

The silence from ORPD continues to be deafening.....

The articals have now dropped off both the KNS and Oak Ridger web sites

We aren’t waiting on ORPD or KPD; we are waiting on the DA. After the DA makes his decision the OR Chief will make his.

I figured there would be a decision by now; I know the DA’s office is probably light during the holidays.

Maybe there has been a decision, but no reporters have called them to get the story.

Anyone know any Oak Ridge cops? Everyone on the Department will know when a decision is made.

[Guest mcgyver210]

No matter what it is going as it always does nothing new.

[billyscott]

Does the DA make his decision based on the results of the investigation?

[DaveTN]

Does the DA make his decision based on the results of the investigation?

As in all cases the DA will make his decision based on the facts and supporting evidence presented in the reports and may or may not talk with the investigating Officers. He might decide to send it to a Grand Jury.

[billyscott]

Anybody heard anything yet?

[hornett22]

I doubt anyone will. Most likely swept under the rug days ago. Especially if KPD is involved.

I'll try and see if my buddy at KCSD has info.

[R_Bert]

I emailed the KNS journalist, but he is out of office until the 17th.

[hornett22]

I emailed the KNS journalist, but he is out of office until the 17th.

You dont say. What are the odds?

[billyscott]

Yeah, this is being sweept under the rug.

[Bubba0031]

There is an article on the front page of the print edition of the Oak Ridger this morning stating that KPD has turned over the results from their investagation to the Knox County DA. Oak Ridger is normally very slow to post on line if they post at all so I cannot provide a link.

[TMF]

I thought KPD said they were turning it over to the DA over a week and a half ago.

[Bubba0031]

Article states that did not happen due to Holidays

[billyscott]

Anybody heard anything yet?

[Guest mcgyver210]

Anybody heard anything yet?

Did anyone Really think anything would happen?