Road Rage involving Oak Ridge officers in Knoxville

[chances R]

Report: Off-duty Oak Ridge officers suspects in road rage incident : Knoxville News Sentinel

2 wrongs don't make a right......but I could see this getting very bad, quickly.

[jtmaze]

Can't off duty police officers be charged with aggravated assault. Isn't that what I would be charged with.

JTM🔫

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[Guest lostpass]

This isn't going to turn out well. A lot of people could have defused the situation but no one did. Because no one could let it go it seems likely that a relatively small incident is going to result in a biggish deal. Fighting and confrontation isn't usually worth the hassle.

[Guest pfries]

Conduct unbecoming,

I hate this for Officers that do their job and do it well because just like with the gun crowd a few bad apples is enough to sway opinions of the masses. We do not hear about all the laudable things they do only what will stain and tarnish the record.

No excuse for these two LE or not.

[jtmaze]

Exactly if I unholster my weapon in an argument not in SD it is aggravated assault( not a lawyer just my understanding) I would assume same rules apply to off duty officers.

JTM🔫

Sent from my iPhone

[Guest bkelm18]

Hopefully our new chief nails their butts if the story is true.

[Dolomite_supafly]

There are going to be two sides of this story so I am going to comment on the side we have now. If it turns out to be differnt than what is described I will gladly change my feelings.

First glaring thing is how unprofessional the officers were for flipping off another driver over not being allowed to pull out onto the roadway from a parking lot. Then after they did pull their weapons they did not report it, probably because they had something to hide. There actions speak volumes for their honesty and integrity as most who do have it will not do this no matter the situation. After all they are in the eyes of the public. It also calls into question their ability to control themselves in general. I would be willing to bet these offices have had complaints of abuse. They obviously believe being an officer allows them to act in ways us civillians can't.

Second is the fact they used firearms to win what was up to that point an argument that was neither life threatening or even warranted. Had the roles been reversed the guy would have went to jail for aggravated assault. So I would think the same should be true for the officers. They should be disciplined and if found guilty fired so they can serve their sentence. If nothing is done or if it is the usual BS mandatory training it is only going to empower them even more. Then 2-3 years from now we are going to hear of a much larger case of abuse by one or both of these officers.

And finally their supervisors as well as fellow officers probably had a clue that these officers are loose cannons. Right now they are standing around telling eachother "I told you so". It is these same supervisors and officers that choose not to do anything and this is what allowed these officers to progress to how they act now.

All this falls back on the administration as a whole for not properly training their officers and their supervisors in how to deal with out of control officers like these two.

It has always confused me why good officers protect fellow "bad" officers. Especially when it is the "bad" officers that bring bad light upon all officers. The "bad" officers should be called out and fired once it becomes apparent they are not going to change. But in most cases that doesn't happen. They are allowed to resign in lieu of being fired and then rewarded with letters of recommendation for not fighting the administration. I have seen supervisors calling around vouching for these bad officers on a number of occassions. This is done so they can find another LE job in a surrounding community. And so these "bad" officers are allowed to continue the same conduct, just in a different area, and most often with the same results.

What is going to happen is these two officers are going to say they thought they saw a weapon. Or that they were in fear of their lives and because officers are almost always considered the truthful ones when there is no recordings they will not be punished. This will only empower them to continue their antics. Hopefully the suveillance will speak the unbiased truth and whomever has committed a crime is charged.

Dolomite

[diablo982]

"They were pulling out of the Waffle House," Estep said. "I didn't let them cut me off."

"I've been sucker-punched before," Estep said. "When I got out of the car, the passenger pointed a gun at my face. The driver told me they were police officers."

Don't read too much into this story. This guy called the media and gave HIS account as to what transpired. I can't speak to the officers temperament because they haven't given their story to the media (and probably never will.) I can say that Mr. Estep sounds like a hothead who finds his way towards trouble. I would wait and see if the officers are charged with anything before I gave any credence to this guy's story.

[jtmaze]

The original post says it all. A weapon was allegedly pulled in a non life threatening situation. That could have gone really bad really quick.

JTM🔫

Sent from my iPhone

[wcsc12]

Has anyone else noticed that this guy apparently got the greatest look at their gun in the world from it being pointed at him. Not only did he know it was a Glock but he knew it was a .40 Glock. I hope that one day I can not only the brand but the caliber of the gun by just having it being pointed at me.

Estep described the gun to police as a .40-caliber Glock pistol, commonly used as a service weapon by police departments. He said he jumped back in his car and drove off, then followed the men and wrote down their license plate number as he called E-911.

Edited December 19, 2011 by wcsc12

[Guest pfries]

Has anyone else noticed that this guy apparently got the greatest look at their gun in the world from it being pointed at him. Not only did he know it was a Glock but he knew it was a .40 Glock. I hope that one day I can not only the brand but the caliber of the gun by just having it being pointed at me.

So in short your saying this?

[DaveTN]

That was two days ago. Whoever the vehicle check to has been contacted and interviewed. Be interesting to hear what happened.

[daddyo]

Well, no matter what actually happened, it's two against one, unfortunately.

[chances R]

I hope the surveillance tapes do show what occurred. That will be hard to dispute. This is a great message to all that if you carry, you must control you reflex to 'wave back' at others. I know I'm quilty of many in-kind responses; and I also know now to let it pass or it may wind up in armed conflict.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I hope the surveillance tapes do show what occurred. That will be hard to dispute. This is a great message to all that if you carry, you must control you reflex to 'wave back' at others. I know I'm quilty of many in-kind responses; and I also know now to let it pass or it may wind up in armed conflict.

And in this case had there been a shooting the guy probably would be the one either dead or in jail. Everyone played a role in the initial confrontation but the officers stepped it up when it didn't need to be by pulling a firearm.

As far as him describing the gun. Most people know officers use Glocks chambered in 40 caliber. It wouldn't be that far of a stretch for someone to say "it was a 40 caliber Glock like police use".

And I was not saying the guy was an innocent bystander in this in my previous post. He could have just let it go without returning the gesture and nothing probably would have happened. But the maturity level wasn't there on the part of the officers when it should have been. Also, the officers started the incident, not the guy. The also officers also escalated the situation at every level. They were the first to flip off. They were the first to exit their vehicle. They were the only ones to pull a firearm.

I know if I was given the opportunity I would drive off. Maybe the guy didn't have the option because of traffic at the light.

Even if the guy was instigating most of it what would be the reason for the officer to pull a firearm and then not report it?

Dolomite

[Mike.357]

There is no four way stop at weisgarber and papermill. There is not on anywhere near that intersection.

I have no faith in Estep's version of what happened.

[Guest bkelm18]

There is no four way stop at weisgarber and papermill. There is not on anywhere near that intersection.

I have no faith in Estep's version of what happened.

There's a four way traffic light though? The Waffle House is right there on the corner.

[Lumber_Jack]

There is no four way stop at weisgarber and papermill. There is not on anywhere near that intersection.

I have no faith in Estep's version of what happened.

I believe he was describing the 4 way traffic light. He was heading north on Weisgarber just in front if Fire station, birds were exchanged, and the Estep was caught at the traffic light. What happened after that is probably fault of all parties involved. But for the officers to draw weapons is just irresponsible.

PS I think when he said "anyone could be hit" he was referring to bullets not cars, right?

[daddyo]

Cops who can't exercise any better self-control than this should find another line of work.

[chances R]

middle of the day that is a very congested area, with usually a long line of traffice headed North on Weisgarber. Could understand, at times, not wanting to let someone out there, due to the long wait. Also have the fire dept. drive there which one shouldn't block, which adds to the delay.

[Mike.357]

Four way stop was estep's wording. I have never heard of a traffic light referred to as that.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Here is a view intersection (hit the bird's eye button):

Bing Maps - Driving Directions, Traffic and Road Conditions

The Waffle House is on the left of the the screen (has the tractor trailer in the parking lot). Estep would have been travelling on Weisgarber from the bottom right to the top left in the right hand lane. The officers were attempting to exit the Waffle house parking lot onto Weisgarber and Estep wouldn't let them out. This likely upset the officers and that is how it all began.

Not that far fetched because there are times when we, my wife and I, won't let people out either. We have had people get upset with us because we let one car out in front of us but won't let the next.

Dolomite

Edited December 19, 2011 by Dolomite_supafly

[hornett22]

From what I've heard about ORPD, I'm not surprised by this.

[BrasilNuts]

From what I've heard about ORPD, I'm not surprised by this.

I've lived in OR for a very long time and have had more interactions with the ORPD than I can count on all of my hands, toes and... well, more than 21 times.

I'll have to admit of all of those times only once was it unprofessional and that was when I was in High school.

I'm really interested to hear the other side of this story and if there is any surveillance footage.

So far it doesn't look good for the officers involved.

[wcsc12]

I've lived in OR for a very long time and have had more interactions with the ORPD than I can count on all of my hands, toes and... well, more than 21 times.

I'll have to admit of all of those times only once was it unprofessional and that was when I was in High school.

I'm really interested to hear the other side of this story and if there is any surveillance footage.

So far it doesn't look good for the officers involved.

Wow. I've only had one law infringing interaction with ORPD and it was a ticket for speeding. The guy was nice enough to tell me that he'd let me out of it if I showed up for court but I overslept and missed it and when I called to reschedule the court date, I was informed (btw...please remember this statement in case you ever get a ticket in OR) that I had until 4:30pm to pay the ticket or they'd put a warrant out for my arrest because if you're not there in court, the judge automatically finds in their favor since there's no contestant. Well, by god, I drove to OR to pay that bloody ticket that day.