HCP class at guns and leather

[Guest sling]

I'll be heading out this weekend to take Guns and Leather's handgun permit class. I tried to look at Joelton however they were full as expected. The class i'm attending was going to be full but luckily there were two cancels. 60 is pretty cheap for the class... but how good is the education? I've bought all of my handguns from them and have always had the best experience with them. Everytime i purchase anything they always knock money off the end price for me. Great bunch of guys.

[Guest Smitty]

Guns & Leather is where I took my HCP class since I live 20 minutes away from there. Pretty good bunch of guys there. The education is pretty good there. If you don't know, ask a lot of questions is the advice I can give you if you have some discrepencies about something. They should be able to tell you everything you need to know, but I would take some time and research the actual laws yourself and keep up with them. Have fun and good luck on your tests!

[Urse]

Great bunch of guys however Mark is only gonna teach you what he absolutely has to for you to pass the written test. Not really much in the way of education mostly common sense.

[Guest sling]

Took the class on Saturday.

It had to be the most boring thing in the world. As said, common sense.

I have to say it really disgruntles me to know how slack the state standards are to carry.

There were two older ladies in the class that not only couldnt hit the broad side of a barn but one em couldnt even reload their revolver. They passed. These are people that are going to be carrying! Myself and my marine friends were the only ones that could group...

[Mike.357]

60 is pretty cheap for the class...

it appears you got what you paid for.

[DWARREN123]

It is a class for Handgun Carry permit. It is set up so that the poor and weak can pass so they will be able to defend themselves if needed. It is not a self defense class or a tactical handgun class. You have to look at what it is. Maybe it should have more/better accuracy requirements and physical abilities requirements but it may then somewhat defeat the purpose of the class.

Just my opinion.

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

If you want to get technical, isn't it a "Handgun Safety Class" that the state requires us to take?? Even though most places advertise it as a Permit Class, that's not what the Dept. of Safety calls it. The place I took the class actually called it a Handgun Safety Class. And I think that's more fitting since handgun safety, and some carry laws, is about all they teach.

Edited April 9, 2008 by TNDixieGirl

[Fallguy]

Very good point Dixie!!!

It is not supposed to be a "Defensive Tactics", "Self-Defense", "Qualifying with a Handgun", "Handgun Techniques" or another type of class that some instructors and/or students want it to be.

If you want more training beyond the state mandated "Safety Class" then be all means get it, but for those that don't they shouldn't have it rolled into the required class and charged extra.

[Guest eyebedam]

How long did the class take? I got a friend thats thinking of taking the class there.

[Guest Jason F.]

You can look at the two little old ladies two ways. One they could not properly handle a firearm and should never be allowed to carry a handgun. They should have failed the class and not be issued a carry permit. Or the second way to look at is the class is just a legal hoop to jump through to exercise their constitutional right to keep a firearm. A legal hoop that should not even be in existence. They and everyone else should pass the class just for showing up and sitting through it.

Push one if you are a Democrat, push two if you are Republican. Ok that is too much of a generalization. Push one if you are a hippie, communist, Californian transplant. Push two if you are an American.

[John Wall]

Don't forget that the State has a training program they give to all State Certified Handgun Instructors. It is a "recommended" program, but if you vary from it, you MUST send in your lesson plan and have it approved.

This makes me wonder about court defensability if one does stray from the State course.

If the course was boring, it was because you are not a new shooter. The lesson plan starts with the assumption you have NO firearms skills or experience.

I have creds and experience to train Advanced Operators in High Risk Operations, but in the Carry Class, I stick to the "recommended" program. LOL

[GLOCKMEISTER]

Don't forget that the State has a training program they give to all State Certified Handgun Instructors. It is a "recommended" program, but if you vary from it, you MUST send in your lesson plan and have it approved.

This makes me wonder about court defensability if one does stray from the State course.

If the course was boring, it was because you are not a new shooter. The lesson plan starts with the assumption you have NO firearms skills or experience.

I have creds and experience to train Advanced Operators in High Risk Operations, but in the Carry Class, I stick to the "recommended" program. LOL

Years ago we were teaching a longer more advanced course now we stick to the "plan" as well. I mean if you stray, your liability goes way up and the chances of winning a legal battle goes down. I mean its a "required" course to obtain the permit, you teach something besides whats in the lesson plan and they use it incorrectly then your liable.

I figure if people want more advanced instruction it can be taught in another class that doesn't have a mandated lesson plan supplied by the state. Get them thru the permit class, then teach them tactics in a more advanced course. Thats my humble opinion.

[Guest sling]

I think my point in reference to the two old ladies was completely missed...

Call me what you want but i believe that a class \ training should be required before someone should have the privilege to carry a firearm. My opinion is i wished there was more "training" involved for you to be allowed to obtain a permit.

Granted, i dont expect everyone to agree with me but surely someone sees the logic in this.

[Fallguy]

I think my point in reference to the two old ladies was completely missed...

Call me what you want but i believe that a class training should be required before someone should have the privilege to carry a firearm. My opinion is i wished there was more "training" involved for you to be allowed to obtain a permit.

Granted, i dont expect everyone to agree with me but surely someone sees the logic in this.

Maybe someone, but not I. But that is because as I've said I think it should be a right to carry not a privileage...

[Guest TNDixieGirl]

I think my point in reference to the two old ladies was completely missed...

Call me what you want but i believe that a class training should be required before someone should have the privilege to carry a firearm. My opinion is i wished there was more "training" involved for you to be allowed to obtain a permit.

Granted, i dont expect everyone to agree with me but surely someone sees the logic in this.

Nope, I'm not on board with that idea either.

[Guest sling]

Yes well, it is nice to know that everyone here can disagree without causing a flame war. Thanks guys.

Shows a lot of maturity that you just dont find on other boards... *Cough* ar15.com *cough*

[GLOCKMEISTER]

isnt agreeing to disagree whatthe net is all about? I think it should be a right as well, but I wasnt around when they put the "state can regulate the wearing of arms" part in our state constitution.

So we have to play with the cards we are dealt.

[dariks]

I think my point in reference to the two old ladies was completely missed...

Call me what you want but i believe that a class training should be required before someone should have the privilege to carry a firearm. My opinion is i wished there was more "training" involved for you to be allowed to obtain a permit.

Granted, i dont expect everyone to agree with me but surely someone sees the logic in this.

I took my HCP course at Guns & Leather and we also had a couple of people like you describe. It really sobers you when you realize that there are people out there carrying a loaded gun who have NO idea how to use it safely or hell, just plain use it. In my opinion it's akin to letting someone who's never driving before get behind the wheel out on the interstate.

[DWARREN123]

Perhaps it is not the Safety Course that needs to be looked at but the purchasing of a firearm. Maybe have to pass a test to buy a gun?

They do it in most other countries that allow you to own a firearm.

No, I like out system better but it is a individual responsibility to safety own and use anything you have not just firearms!

[Guest HexHead]

I took my HCP course at Guns & Leather and we also had a couple of people like you describe. It really sobers you when you realize that there are people out there carrying a loaded gun who have NO idea how to use it safely or hell, just plain use it. In my opinion it's akin to letting someone who's never driving before get behind the wheel out on the interstate.

I doubt they are the people that are going to be carrying on a regular basis. They may just want to have the option. My wife took the class there and found it very helpful. Aside from my taking her to the range to learn how to operate the pistol and shoot well enough to qualify, (she put 47/48 on the silhouette, and shot out most of the X ring. ) she had little familiarity with guns.. She basically took the course because we switch cars a lot and if I leave a pistol in the car, we didn't want her to be breaking the law. I got injured out of state last year and she had to drive my car home with my loaded 1911 in the car. As she becomes more comfortable with the idea, she may carry occasionally depending on where she's going. It's nice to have the option.

[GLOCKMEISTER]

now, IMHO no person should EVER pass the required class if they cant demonstrate they can load, unload, and are proficiently SAFE with the handgun they are qualifying with. I have spent many extra hours on the range with novices just to make sure they know what they are doing and are safe before we pass them. And yes, I have failed my fair share of folks too... Its not my entention, but some things just simply get you sent home. However we really try and work with folks until they can prove proficiency, even if it means they get to come back to another range session or two on our dime. Again, just my humble opinion. :-)

[memphismason]

You can look at the two little old ladies two ways. One they could not properly handle a firearm and should never be allowed to carry a handgun. They should have failed the class and not be issued a carry permit. Or the second way to look at is the class is just a legal hoop to jump through to exercise their constitutional right to keep a firearm. A legal hoop that should not even be in existence. They and everyone else should pass the class just for showing up and sitting through it.

Push one if you are a Democrat, push two if you are Republican. Ok that is too much of a generalization. Push one if you are a hippie, communist, Californian transplant. Push two if you are an American.

I like the boat your paddling.

[Guest Jason F.]

I like the boat your paddling.

Yes but these days it is way to much like paddling upstream.

If no one could tell my original post was very tongue in cheek. While I personally feel as I posted that permits are a legal hoop that should not be in place I certainly do not think every Californian is a hippy, liberal, anti gunner and not every hippy, liberal, anti-gunner is a California. Obviously that is just a fun stereotype joke.