Do I really want a Glock?

[Guest drv2fst]

I don't disagree with or dispute the first half of your argument at all.

....

Okay, seriously though...I agree. It's a concealed tool that works...well. When I have to use it, who cares what it looks like. I have pretty range guns too, though, and they're more fun to shoot.

I agree completely. I absolutely trust my Glock(s) as self defensive weapons, which is their primary job. However, I also like to enjoy my time at the range. I just don't enjoy shooting this ugly block of plastic. As wonderful as it is as a weapon it just does not provide the same enjoyment to the HOBBY of shooting as other guns do.

I guess that's why we all need to own many guns. There is rarely JUST ONE GUN that will meet all the needs.

[Caster]

Come on Jonnin old buddy, let's get that PM box emptied out:)

[Jonnin]

doh. ok!

[bigwakes]

If you go with the Glock you might start thinking of your sell price for the XD. You know my stance on the issue already. Plus I'm a certified armored and can help with anything you want to do to it. I have a 19 that has yet to make it to the range. Let me know when your headed down and I'll throw it in.

[robin48]

As far as concealability ( is that a word?) I carry a G22 in a Theis IWB holster with no issues.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk

[Guest italia]

One thing I have come to the point of in the last few years: I'm sick of mediocrity and settlement. I'm going to find something suits me and buy it, then axe everything else.

Get a HK P30. You won't look back.

[Caster]

Get a HK P30. You won't look back.

I'm sure it's an AWESOME pistol, but come on guys....despite what some gamblers say, there's too much evidence that polygonal rifling and cast boolits don't play nice with one another. I don't buy bullets or boolits. My lead source is steady and cheap *coughfreecough cough* I roll my own as a point of pride, a source of enjoyment and because I can do it as cheap as anyone out there.

HK uses polygonal rifling as does Glock. HK doesn't have the aftermarket support Glock does. IF you can get a cut rifled barrel for a HK, it's be very pricey. Also, I've never seen trays of parts for HK's. You can't swing a dead cat in a gunshow without hitting something with a Circled G on it. If it moves, it will break, so parts availability is a valid concern. I'm not a competition shooter, I'm not even a very good shooter, but I shoot a good bit. Parts wear.

9 pages of this, I didn't expect. I wanted to go shoot some first, but my mind is all but made up. I HAVE shot Glocks before. Never had a single issue with them or the way they felt.

Heck with it, the wife says she'll go buy me one in the next week or two, I'm in:)

[Guest italia]

G may be your best bet - I'm not that familiar with how lead impacts parts wear and never looked for an aftermarket cut rifled barrel. As I'm sure you're watching, Todd from pistol-training.com is up to 52,000 rounds on a single G17 with only one parts breakage (pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » Glock 17 gen4 Endurance Test: Week 38), and went 91,000 on a single HK P30 with 5 parts breaking (pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » P30 Thursday: Week Forty-Two). How much does running lead all the time increase parts breakage?

[bigwakes]

G may be your best bet - I'm not that familiar with how lead impacts parts wear and never looked for an aftermarket cut rifled barrel. As I'm sure you're watching, Todd from pistol-training.com is up to 52,000 rounds on a single G17 with only one parts breakage (pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » Glock 17 gen4 Endurance Test: Week 38), and went 91,000 on a single HK P30 with 5 parts breaking (pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » P30 Thursday: Week Forty-Two). How much does running lead all the time increase parts breakage?

The issue with lead come into play on polygonal rifling. It does not have the standard lands and grooves that most pistol use. The grooves are a very handy place for lead fouling to collect. In polygonal rifling there are no such grooves to collect the small amount of lead that is scraped off inside the barrel. The fear is that the lead would build up in the barrel making it slightly smaller over time until the barrel has too much pressure and destroys the barrel, gun, and potentially any noses within 2 feet or so. I have shot with plenty of shooters that shoot lead in Glocks and report tens of thousands of rounds without issue. I tend to lean on the side of caution and only shoot lead or any reloads in my nonfactory Glock barrels that have lands and grooves.

[mikegideon]

You have a good point on the rifling. You also have a good point on parts availability. I'm thinkin'...

Smith & Wesson M&P | Semi-Automatic Handguns | Smith & Wesson | Gun Parts by Gun Make & Model | Gunsmithing & Gun Parts |=

[Caster]

As a matter of fact, shooting a properly loaded cast bullet will NEVER wear the barrel out. I say never, we all understand never say never, but copper, brass and nickel jackets do exponentially more damage to the bore than lead ever COULD. Simply put, it's not really possible to wear out a barrel using lead.

Normal wear on other parts are the same or slightly less as pressures run close to slightly less depending on the load.

As Bigwakes has pointed out, it's not a wear issue at all, but the reaction of a lead bullet in a barrel. Lead will swell upon firing some. The harder the lead the less. I size proper and use a water quenched bullet cast from wheel weights. They are very hard as lead goes. Because of the design of the polygonal rifled barrel, the lead will build in the areas of greatest diameter and cause pressure spikes. Massive pressure spikes cause Kabooms. Cut type rifling doesn't have this issue. Now, this rabbit hole goes MUCH deeper in both theory and application but suffice to say, the numbers say it's bad. Now, that doesn't mean if you fire a magazine of cast bullets through a Glock it'll explode. That's rubbish, but who wants to mine the lead out a heavily fouled barrel every hundered or so rounds? I can shoot 4-5 hundred from my XD EASILY with almost zero leading. Really all I ever see is a faint silver hue in the bore but the lands and grooves are sharp as a razor. Couple of patches on a tight Jag with some Montana Extreme Cowboy Blend and it's gone.

I get asked a lot why go to so much effort? It's too much trouble, it ain't worth it.....well, when you can shoot one ragged hole with no failures, and do it for under $60 per thousand, you let me know.

[Caster]

You have a good point on the rifling. You also have a good point on parts availability. I'm thinkin'...

Smith & Wesson M&P | Semi-Automatic Handguns | Smith & Wesson | Gun Parts by Gun Make & Model | Gunsmithing & Gun Parts |=

I've handled a few...I just don't like it. Sad really cause they are darn fine pistols IMO.

[Guest italia]

Caster, I'm learning quite a bit about lead in this thread - thanks! Please comment about this post on another forum FMJ Vs Lead Bullets for reloading?

[DannyP]

I went shooting this weekend, first time shooting a glock, tried the 19 and 17. To be honest didn't really like either, i was pretty sold on getting a new glock 19 before hand also. I have a HK and it really didn't compare. I think i'll be staying away from glocks, guess they aren't my thing

Danny

[Guest gw2and4]

Caster, what do you know about moly-coated lead bullets and leading? Does it help prevent the fouling you mention? I've run several hundred through my OEM Glock 34 barrel, but I'm thinking of getting a cut rifled barrel with lands and grooves for long term competition use. After a few thousand rounds, the $99 will more than pay for itself methinks...

Sent from my iPhone 4

[Caster]

All I know is moly coating is messy and I have read over and over again that's just not worth it. Never tried it myself.

[kwe45919]

Purchasing an aftermarket barell is a simple and cheap alternative. I have yet to be able to tell a difference between an KKM, LoneWolfe or an OEM. They all shoot at the same point of impact at 25yrds for me. I'm sure they'll do the same in a SD situation.

I've tried multitudes of handguns for carry...I kept going back to a G19 or G26....the G26 won out due to year-round carry availability. Glocks are tools and I try to keep all my tools the same.......

[Guest uzzi]

I've owned a few Glocks and my issue with them are the very small controls (mag release, slide release) and the plastic mags that seem to stick and NOT release at the worse times! There are many "Glock" type guns out there that are great that don't have those problems. The Walther PPQ is a fantasic gun as well as the CZ P07 Duty.

[Berettatn]

My answer to this question was "not even at gunpoint". But that's just a personal preference. If I have a choice between an old S&W revolver that's in good shape or a brand new Glock, the revolver goes in my pocket and the Glock is left for the next guy. I've shot a few Glocks and I can hit the target with 'em but just prefer other weapons.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

Decided yet, Caster? I just got another Glock. 19 this time. Been finding deals on them lately.

[mikegideon]

Decided yet, Caster? I just got another Glock. 19 this time. Been finding deals on them lately.

You shot any tire weights thru it yet?

BTW: between you and graycrait, you got enough Glocks to outfit the Clarksville militia.

Edited December 21, 2011 by mikegideon

[Caster]

Deals? Care to elaborate? Where, who, how much? I ain't too far from Clarksville to take a ride northwest.

[rgaper]

I don't disagree with or dispute the first half of your argument at all.

This part, however, has some wiggle room. Owning a Glock is like wearing overalls or driving a Toyota Prius. The are excellent at getting their intended job done, but aren't the most stylish of choices. The overalls will get you funny looks at the office Christmas party and the Prius will get you laughed at by your huntin'/drinkin' buddies. I have enough trouble hanging onto what few "cool points" I have left.

Okay, seriously though...I agree. It's a concealed tool that works...well. When I have to use it, who cares what it looks like. I have pretty range guns too, though, and they're more fun to shoot.

Interesting. I don't operate in circles where guys make fun of Glocks. We all have a respect for what they do and have all been down the path of trying different firearms and either transitioning to the Glock out of epiphany, or after seeing how much more practical they are for a trained defensive shooter. (same goes for the M&P series) If you would have asked me five years ago if I would own a Glock, or several of them, and that I would have retired or sold every other pistol (Beretta, Sig, HK, Kahr, etc.) in my safe in favor of the 9mm Glock plaform, I would have told you that you were smoking crack. What did it for me was the training and thousands of rounds downrange.

If someone were to laugh at me about carrying a Glock, I would assume they are ill informed or a fudd. I guess this goes back to the biggest difference for me which is that I don't go to the range with a bag full of guns to play with, I do defensive drills, and getting better at that skillset gives me satisfaction. It seems there are some who view shooting their carry gun as a chore and shooting other guns as fun. I don't have that distinction. I need to be as proficient as possible with my pistol AND I enjoy shooting it.

[rgaper]

I've owned a few Glocks and my issue with them are the very small controls (mag release, slide release) and the plastic mags that seem to stick and NOT release at the worse times! There are many "Glock" type guns out there that are great that don't have those problems. The Walther PPQ is a fantasic gun as well as the CZ P07 Duty.

If the mags don't drop free, it's either because they are not OEM Glock drop free mags, or there are plastic burrs on the mag release notch that's on the magazine body. Regular maintenance should be to inspect the magazine and remove any plastic that has built up. You can usually do it with your fingernail, but if you don't want to mess up your manicure, you can use a pocketknife. I've found that the only other legitimate reason for a Glock mag "sticking" is when the shooter's hand is so big (or the grip is poor) and they are preventing the magazine from dropping free. i.e. you hit the button, but you're holding the mag in place so it doesn't drop.

All of my Glocks have the Vickers extended slide release and Vickers extended mag release and I recommend them without hesitation. IMO, they are way better than the factory standard and extended offerings. The Gen 4 "FBI" mag release looks promising, but I know that the Vickers is good stuff.

On the Walther PPQ recommendation - by the way - it's a new gun, so I'd let it go through its teething process before recommending one, but people seem to like them so far except for their somewhat unique magazine release. Ironic in light of your Glock complaints, many people find that the magazine release on the Walther is problematic both from a reliability and training perspective.

[graycrait]

Do not get a Glock.