Posting at library in Jackson because of HCP

[Fallguy]

Like I said the laws and opinions on this seem to change. I remember reading code a few years ago which prohibited carry in government buildings. I also remember reading that public parks were prohibited and I distinctly remember that signage was not necesary. I'll try to look up the code.

Yes the laws do change and therefore AG opinions at times. I would recommend any gun owner and/or person with a HCP to try and keep up with them as best they can.

Here is the law on parks 39-17-1311 It actually does say sings are required, but then right below that it allows the controlling body of the property to exempt themselves from posting a sign if they want to. However my local civic center, park, ball fields etc... aren't posted and I bet you couldn't find where a resolution was passed by the County or City boards that exempted themselves from posting a sign.

I sometimes think the wording of 39-17-1311 is what makes people think all government building are off limits, but it only addresses "public recreational buildings" and other places listed. Not ALL public buildings.

[Guest kwikrnu]

39-17-1311. Carrying weapons on public parks, playgrounds, civic centers and other public recreational buildings and grounds. —

(a) It is an offense for any person to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, with the intent to go armed, any weapon prohibited by § 39-17-1302(a), not used solely for instructional, display or sanctioned ceremonial purposes, in or on the grounds of any public park, playground, civic center or other building facility, area or property owned, used or operated by any municipal, county or state government, or instrumentality thereof, for recreational purposes.

That is what gets me confused. Then they say if it isn't posted you have to check any of their resolutions to see if they have exempted themselves from the signage law. Who is going to do hours upon hours of research to find that out? I think they want to confuse people like me into just leaving their guns at home.

Thnaks you guys have been a real help. So, I think I will just carry anywhere unless I see a sign that reads close to what the AG says and if I see one of those just go to another entrance where the sign is not posted...They couldn't just make it easy for law abiding people.

Edited April 5, 2008 by kwikrnu

[Fallguy]

Thnaks you guys have been a real help. So, I think I will just carry anywhere unless I see a sign that reads close to what the AG says and if I see one of those just go to another entrance where the sign is not posted...They couldn't just make it easy for law abiding people.

Pretty much the way to go...

Just remember the places that don't have to post but are illegal to carry....

Places that serve alcohol for onsite consumption

39-17-1305

Any

room

where a judicial proceeding is taking place

39-17-1306

...and that schools have their own signage requirements

39-17-1309

Edited April 5, 2008 by Fallguy

[Fallguy]

That is what gets me confused. Then they say if it isn't posted you have to check any of their resolutions to see if they have exempted themselves from the signage law. Who is going to do hours upon hours of research to find that out? I think they want to confuse people like me into just leaving their guns at home.

I don't think you are too far off with that comment.

I know at least two people (Mars and myself) that don't think 39-17-1311 prevents people from carrying in a park anyway. First 39-17-1311 says weapons in 39-17-1302(a) are what's illegal, well a handgun is not listed within those weapons. Secondly it says "with the intent to go armed". Intent to go armed is defined in 39-17-1307. In 39-17-1308(a)(2) it says having a HCP is a defense to 39-17-1307. But there are two AG opinions that disagree with me 07-148 and 08-26

[Marswolf]

Yeah, the crucial point is what 39-17-1302(a) specifies. Handguns are not there.

[Guest kwikrnu]

I read all of that and you're right #1 handguns are not listed. I guess laws are made to be twisted. If they weren't lawyers would be out of a job.

[Marswolf]

I wrote an email to the director of the system there asking for contact info for the directors. Didn't tell her why I wanted it.

[mac12]

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080407/NEWS01/804070306

The library board is going to meet to determine if the sign stays at the North Highland branch.

Edited April 7, 2008 by mac12

[Fallguy]

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080407/NEWS01/804070306

The library board is going to meet to determine if the sign stays at the North Highland branch.

I couldn't get about link to work....

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2008804070306

[Fallguy]

The Jackson Sun has a poll on their opinion page about whether you should be able to carry in the library.

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=OPINION

Roughly 2-1 in favor right now.

[Marswolf]

I just added a vote.

[Guest BG38357]

Here's another:

Knox library branch testing new security

http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6513&page=4

[strickj]

Did anybody catch this?

[strickj]

POLLShould someone licensed to carry a concealed weapon be able to take it into the Jackson-Madison County Public Library?

Total votes cast: 956 Submit your comments

[Guest 270win]

The state law does not seem to prohibit carrying in government owned buildings, unless there is a sign posted in accordance with the penal code. I also do not understand how a lawyer like the TN AG can think that it is illegal to carry a handgun in a park, when the code is very specific of what an 'illegal' weapon is and that illegal weapons (switchblades, machine guns, suppressors) cannot generally be carried in parks. It is like saying 1+1=3 instead of 1+1=2. I am sure it would be easy to get such a charge dropped if you happen to be unfortunate enough to be found out (exactly why I generally conceal) by the police and the cop is a jerk about you LEGALLY carrying a handgun.

[Guest killemducks]

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

MEANING...

when given a present, be grateful for your good fortune and don't look for more by examining it to assess its value.

!!!!!!!!!

...i saw a picture of the sign. See what you did?

[Fallguy]

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080416/NEWS01/804160312/1002

April 16, 2008

Gun ban signs at library removed

By NICHOLAS BEADLE

nbeadle@jacksonsun.com

Notices of a gun ban have been removed at the Jackson-Madison County Library's north branch, said Richard Salmons, library director.

Salmons said the signs were taken down over the weekend, though he did not know specifically why. But firearms are still banned under library policy, he said.

Arlene Griffin, who manages the north branch, declined comment Tuesday.

There will still be a review of the gun policy at today's Library Board meeting, said Sharon Younger, the board's chairwoman.

But, "It's certainly not the focus of the meeting," she said.

Michael Stone, the board member who called for the discussion, said he got what he wanted when the signs came down.

"It's pretty much a given you don't take a gun in the library to begin with, and you don't need that kind of gaudy signage," Stone said. "I don't think anybody's going to come in with one to begin with."

Griffin posted the signs after a regular visitor asked if he could bring a gun into the small branch in the Kroger shopping center off North Highland Avenue.

The man told library staff that he had left his gun, which he has a permit to carry, in his car and that he did not know if the library was among the places where he was not allowed to carry the weapon.

The signs upset gun permit holders, including City Councilman Randy Wallace. Wallace told The Jackson Sun this month that he thought the notices would attract criminals to the library by advertising the fact that no one is armed there.

The board meets at 3:30 p.m. today at the library's main branch on East Lafayette Street in Jackson.

Visit jacksonsun.com and share your thoughts.

- Nicholas Beadle, 425-9763

So they have a no gun policy, but don't want to post the signs to enforce it? I know some think that places that post improper signs are still pro carry, just trying to appease insurance company etc.... But to some degree I think those places and places like the library (have a no carry policy, but don't want to post a sign) are trying to have their cake and eat it too. They want to be anti-carry without appearing to be so.

Guess we'll see what happens after the 3:30 meeting.

[Marswolf]

Well, you can't have a no gun policy with any teeth at a library without a sign. I guess they can ask you to leave, but that's a bit questionable at a public facility.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Marswolf

[analog_kidd]

"It's pretty much a given you don't take a gun in the library to begin with, and you don't need that kind of gaudy signage," Stone said. "I don't think anybody's going to come in with one to begin with."

Yeah, it's definitely a given. You just keep on thinking that. I promise I won't bring my concealed weapon inside. I promise.

[Guest killemducks]

I just wonder who will be the first HCP to break it to the Library............I am not going to say it here, but look at the thread title.

[strickj]

Im sure some nut will tell them the law

[Fallguy]

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080417/NEWS01/804170304

Signs down....ban still in place. Maybe I do need to go find a book?

[Marswolf]

Board member Michael Stone, who called for the discussion, said he was fine with what was done. "The signs are down," he said.

I have a feeling that Mr. Stone is the only one on the board who understands the law.

[Guest db99wj]

http://www.jacksonsun.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080417/NEWS01/804170304

Signs down....ban still in place. Maybe I do need to go find a book?

I have a feeling that Mr. Stone is the only one on the board who understands the law.

I'm with you. I wonder what Mr. Stone's real thoughts are...off the record of course.

[Marswolf]

This came up when I was on the library board here. This was just before I became chairman of the board and the chairman was a woman.BTW, all Tennessee library boards have to have at least two of each sex. Anyway, she and several other board members stated that guns do not belong in a library.

We ended up, at my suggestion, accepting an Oregon library rule list that includes a rule that illegal weapons are not allowed in the library. You catch that? The board members didn't. And these are very smart and educated people.

The library director, who I hired, understands the situation and that I CC all the time. If signs ever go up, I'll go talk to the board.