Accuracy problems with H&R .243

[The Scullinator]

Hey guys.

I'd love your experienced input on my situation.

I traded for a H&R .243. The guy said he was just and 1.5 inches from the 1 inch bulls-eye at 150 yards. I took it out and couldn't consistently hit a 18 inch target at 100 yards (sandbagged and the hits are all over the place, maybe a little more high or low than left or right). I tried the ammo he said he sighted it in with and got the same results. I bought different ammo and got the same results. I replaced the scope and bought Federal fusion 95 grain ammo (which was suggested on another site for this particular weapon) and I cannot get better than an 8 inch pattern at 100 yards with sand bags. I took it to my local gun expert and let him shoot and work with the scope. At 25 yards he could get no better pattern than 2 inch groups (so approximately 8 inch groups at 100 yards right?). I have had 4 people shoot this gun and the only consistent thing is the guns inconsistency! Cleaning the gun doesn't help either. I get better groupings at 200 yards with my .308 when I don't give a crap and am just shooting for fun.

So I find this web-site. www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?topic=116451.0 SERIOUSLY!!! If this gun is really that picky I'd rather trash it and start over!

Obviously I'm at my whits end... any suggestions?

[The Scullinator]

Oh I forgot to add it is a single shot

Edited December 16, 2011 by The Scullinator

[Dolomite_supafly]

You got taken, plain and simple.

Now to try to fix it.

How does the bore look?

Crown? Take a Q-tip and fluff it up. Now stick it in the muzzle a d pull it back out. If ANY of the cotton fibers pulled away and is stuck to the barrel then your crown is messed up. Any smith can correct that.

Are you sure it is .243? I have seen a few people shoot the wrong caliber in guns because the rounds fit.

And finally, are you sure the scope isn't so far off it is hitting the ground mid way? Yes I have seen that as well.

Dolomite

[Guest nysos]

Again with the barrel, have you cleaned it well or is it fouled up pretty bad?

[gregintenn]

What kind of scope? Are the mount screws tight?

[The Scullinator]

You got taken, plain and simple.

Now to try to fix it.

How does the bore look?

Crown? Take a Q-tip and fluff it up. Now stick it in the muzzle a d pull it back out. If ANY of the cotton fibers pulled away and is stuck to the barrel then your crown is messed up. Any smith can correct that.

q-tip comes out clean as a whistle. in other words no fibers pull

Are you sure it is .243? I have seen a few people shoot the wrong caliber in guns because the rounds fit.

Just looked at the barrel just to make sure. yup .243 win

And finally, are you sure the scope isn't so far off it is hitting the ground mid way? Yes I have seen that as w

yup. I'm sure its not hitting the ground.

Dolomite

Thanks for the suggestions!

Edited December 16, 2011 by The Scullinator

[gregintenn]

Sure wish I was closer, as I would like to see and shoot the rifle in person.

[The Scullinator]

Again with the barrel, have you cleaned it well or is it fouled up pretty bad?

I've had several people look at the barrel but they all say it looks ok....

I've cleaned it but I have a buddy that wants to drill it with a wire brush to fix any copper fouling problems... i

Edited December 16, 2011 by The Scullinator

[The Scullinator]

Again with the barrel, have you cleaned it well or is it fouled up pretty bad?

it seems like they are tight. the only thing I haven't done is take everything apart and put it back together

[Caster]

I've cleaned it but I have a buddy that wants to drill it with a wire brush to fix any "copper fouling" problems... i

Good god, just whoop it against a tree. You'll get to the same destination only faster.

I'd say something is loose. Scope base, ring or the scope is crap to begin with.

If you were getting wide groups of 6 inches or so it might be more understandable, but if you can't hit an 18 inch target reliably, there's something going on that's not normal at all.

[Oh Shoot]

I bought a used NEF Handi Rifle 'bout year ago in .30-30, barrel looked great, sharp grooves, etc.

Mine wasn't all over the place but was consistently 8" low at 50 yards, and couldn't compensate the rear site to fix it (wanted this one to say just iron sighted). I figgered somebody had put a different front site on or something. But it was also doing light strikes, AND one of the reasons I bought it was to also get a .223 barrel for it also.

So I called and sent it in, cost me less than $20. I expected them to call me about the barrel cost and maybe charge me for some repair work or whatever too. Lo and behold the gun just shows up, with a list of stuff they did to it long as your arm. It included a new replacement .30-30 barrel, even. So whatever it was, wasn't just the sights. Anyway, they basically rebuilt the whole gun, and didn't charge me a dime! (this all handled by Remington, btw).

And yeah, shoots fine. The main bummer though, was that they wouldn't do me a .223 barrel, something about the receiver range of serial numbers which included mine, were contracted out, and for whatever mysterious reason they said they don't fit barrels to those. I also wonder, though, if the stock isn't "stock", because it's very uncomfy to get a cheek weld in position to line up sights.

Which is a long winded way of saying, if you determine it really is the gun and have to send it in, maybe they'll make it right for nothing like mine? I was very upfront about it being bought used, with lord knows how many owners before me.

- OS

Edited December 16, 2011 by OhShoot

[Guest Aces&8s]

OK, this may sound weird, but try shooting without the forend on it. Some shooters have found that a misshaped forend, or an over-tightened forend screw can cause accuracy problems. I would take off the forend, and see how (if) that affects your accuracy.

Unfortunately, compared to all the Handi-Rifles in production, the .243 seems to have been a consistent poor performer (there will be several older threads on GBO about this).

[Jonnin]

Are you letting it cool between shots? Some rifles are very wild if fired hot, others it makes no difference. If it has copper in it there is a chemistry solution that will not ruin the bore... and a copper brush as found in any cleaning kit will get most of that out too. Avoid mr drill & brush, that is overkill and may (most likely will) damage something. A gunsmith can check the crown and bore but honestly if you can see rifleing and the crown does not show any wear, its probably ok. Its very unlikely to be nice looking and worn out, as its rather difficult to wear out a single shot gun, that would take decades of serious shooting. It could be internals in the scope, very cheap scopes, esp very old ones, can work loose inside even if the mounts are tight, though this is rare and usually when it happens the crosshairs are off center or obviously messed up. It could also just be a lemon, time to call H&R.

[The Scullinator]

Are you letting it cool between shots? Some rifles are very wild if fired hot, others it makes no difference. If it has copper in it there is a chemistry solution that will not ruin the bore... and a copper brush as found in any cleaning kit will get most of that out too. Avoid mr drill & brush, that is overkill and may (most likely will) damage something. A gunsmith can check the crown and bore but honestly if you can see rifleing and the crown does not show any wear, its probably ok. Its very unlikely to be nice looking and worn out, as its rather difficult to wear out a single shot gun, that would take decades of serious shooting. It could be internals in the scope, very cheap scopes, esp very old ones, can work loose inside even if the mounts are tight, though this is rare and usually when it happens the crosshairs are off center or obviously messed up. It could also just be a lemon, time to call H&R.

I was probably allowing 2-3 minutes between shots. whether or not it cooled off or not I'm not sure.

I have yet to have a certified gunsmith look at it. I talked to one on the phone and he said that his experience with these rifles are that if you get one that shoots straight then keep it because they are few and far between.

This is the second scope that I've had on the gun. The first one was the one that came with it. I replaced it with a True Glow I bought at Dicks for about $50. With the new scope and the Federal Fusion 95 grain (which I've read seems to work well in this rifle) I was able to get all shots on paper... I just couldn't get a consistent grouping tighter than 8 inches. That day I know I wasn't allowing the barrel to cool down completely. Maybe it's time to take another trip to the range. I'll take the scope and mounts completely off and reassemble before I go out to eliminate the possibility of a loose screw.

OK, this may sound weird, but try shooting without the forend on it. Some shooters have found that a misshaped forend, or an over-tightened forend screw can cause accuracy problems. I would take off the forend, and see how (if) that affects your accuracy.

Unfortunately, compared to all the Handi-Rifles in production, the .243 seems to have been a consistent poor performer (there will be several older threads on GBO about this).

I will do this as well!

Thanks Guys!

Edited December 16, 2011 by The Scullinator

[Caster]

Well, I hope the best for you, BUT if you decide in the end to give up, give me a shout. I might make you an offer on it. I've always wanted to cast for something in the 6mm family. I'll bet my hat it will shoot well with the proper cast boolit. Finding size and load is half the fun.

[JeffsSig]

Take the scope off and shoot it with no scope from the bench to see what type of groups it will shoot.

Yes it can be done with no iron sights. If needed find a small magnet to place on the end of the barrel to use a make shift front sight.

I will be willing to bet it is the scope/mounts. Scope mounts/rings can be to tight and make scopes act this way.

[gregintenn]

I replaced it with a True Glow I bought at Dicks for about $50

I think I found your problem. Get a Weaver mount and rings, and a REAL scope and see what it'll do. I'll bet you'd be surprised.

The only other thing I can think of is that I have seen a rifle barrel in the past someone had put in a vice and squeezed it hard enough that the bore in that spot was no longer round. It didn't shoot very good. I can't imagine, however, why someone would fell the need to do that to a single shot.

[Jonnin]

tru glo has been reasonable on my pistol -- it broke, they gave me a new one, no questions asked (I think I actually wore out the switch from use). It has held zero for over 6 months and I shoot it 2, 3 times a week. For the price I have been very happy with them. Only real complaint about it is the dot is huge.

[Clod Stomper]

I have the same problem with a Rossi .243. Except mine probably shoots worse. 25 yard groups look more like shotgun patterns.

Rather than put a lot of energy into trying to make it shoot, I'm going to stub the barrel and install a .264 barrel and chamber it in 6.5 Grendel. That's a more appropriate round for a rifle that size anyway, in my opinion.

Will

Edited December 17, 2011 by Clod Stomper

[Jon in TN]

I have had handi rifles in 223, 25-06, 7-08, 30-30, & 44 mag and none of them shot like that. If the scope base is not the problem I would send it to the factory. They do stand behind their products and if a barrel got out if the factory that bad, they would replace it. I've heard of some 243 not shooting well out of the box, but nothing like this that was not optic related. Good luck.

Jon

[Guest Oldyardog]

Make sure that the locking shelf and latch is dry. Handi rifles have to have a dry lock up to shoot well. Out of the several I have had in many cals only one would not shoot a good group That one had a bad bore and was a .223.

[bsstan]

I have a NEF in .223, it was stringing 2.5" @ 25 yards. I made shims to go between the fore end and barrel. Free floating the barrell. Helped a lot.

[Randy L]

I have not heard of any of these rifles shooting well my brother bought on in 500 S&W it doesn't do any better the trigger on his is awful but it is just a shotgun with a rifle barrel and that could be most of the problem.

[Jon in TN]

I have not heard of any of these rifles shooting well my brother bought on in 500 S&W it doesn't do any better the trigger on his is awful but it is just a shotgun with a rifle barrel and that could be most of the problem.

The pressures for that cartridge are way too high for that shotgun frame and your brother needs to find an SB2 rifle frame for it or get rid of the barrel. Those barrels do not have a good rep for accuracy anyway, even for the Handi guys that know how to dial them in....

[inspecting1]

Start with the scope and mounts make sure they are tight. If no change try some sweets or shooters choice. be sure to get this out after cleaning. If no change swap scopes. if no change start thinkong barrels or drop me a line I'll give 50 bucks for it