Picking a press to purchase

[mikegideon]

In ignorance, having never used either the 550 or 650-- Considering the relatively small price difference, I can't understand why a 550 would be better, but I don't hardly understand anything. In addition, the SDB and the 650 are both auto-indexing presses (the shellholder automatically rotates with each lever cycle), whereas the 550 does not auto-index.

Nothing wrong with the way your brain works. You use a progressive for volume. Why not get the fastest one? I don't shoot enough pistol to justify the tooling, and the rifle stuff I load needs a single stage. I would buy a Dillon in a heartbeat if i had a use for it.

[Guest]

Still reading, still thinking. I did finish reading the introductory / instructional part of the Hornady reloading book. Lots of good info.

I am still debating on trying out the Lee 1000 first, given its rock-bottom cost.

$30 for dies, $40 for shellplate carrier, and $9 for the die turret makes a pretty cheap change-over between calibers. The downside off the Lee compared to the Dillon is when it comes to case-trimming, but it is so much cheaper, does a newbie really need a 650?

Maybe if I can find a fairly quick way to trim/chamfer cases, the Lee it should be. Cabellas has free shipping through Friday so the whole thing would be $150. very tempting. Very tempting indeed. I am wondering if I can get my new C&R applied with Midway on Friday if that applies to the Lee or not, since it's already on sale.

P.S. sorry for being indicisive. The more I read, the more I go from one to the other, and back and forth...

Edited December 16, 2011 by Guest

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Lee has a length-trimming system of shellholder, cutter, and depth gage which maybe costs $15 per caliber. I read a lot about it and there are youtube videos about it. It looks pretty elegant and simple.

You can either do it manually or attach the shell holder or the cutter to an electric drilll or a case prep center type box.

I may be misunderstanding, but the biggest incompatibility with a progressive press-- I think you would want to run the shell thru the decap and size die before you use the ingenious inexpensive length-trimmer. Unless I'm seriously misunderstanding, the resizing step could change the case length, so you couldn't reliably trim the brass until it has gone thru the resize die. And the little tool controls trim length thru the flash hole, so the case would also need to be decapped.

It would be more convenient if one could trim the brass BEFORE feeding it into a progressive press. But regardless whether using a progressive or manual press, it sound like you would have to run the brass halfway thru a progressive, or alternately size-decap on a single-stage, and then trim, and then run the brass the rest of the way thru the progressive. Which would diminsh some of the speed/simplicity advantages of using a progressive press?

[mikegideon]

You gotta resize before you trim, at least for bottlenecks. Full length resizing pushes the shoulder back a couple thousanths or more.

[Guest]

Good point. Here are the instructions for the press. http://media.midwayusa.com/pdf/instructions/Pro_1000.pdf It looks like they assume you have brass that is already re-sized and trimmed. So I would need to buy a .223 resizing die, run all cases through the press once with just that die, then trim, and then run them all through again with the stock dies. Does that sound right?

Now I am wondering if the Lee Load-Master might be better - it is 5 stages, so it should have a full-length sizing die, right? But the details seem very vague. Load-Master Progressive Press Kit 223 Remington

[SonnyCrockett]

I started out with a LEE Classic Turret and now I have the 550B I can load 350-400 an hour and now I wish I bought the 650 which is

rated at 550-600 an hour..........See the trend? If you can afford it spend it now do it.....The differences are simple,auto index and a 5th station

4 stations is all I need but a fifth can be used for things like Powder Cop Die or bullet dropper.....The Lee stuff does not compare to Dillon,Hornaday and RCBS

not even in the same league good luck

[Guest TresOsos]

Still reading, still thinking. I did finish reading the introductory / instructional part of the Hornady reloading book. Lots of good info.

I am still debating on trying out the Lee 1000 first, given its rock-bottom cost.

$30 for dies, $40 for shellplate carrier, and $9 for the die turret makes a pretty cheap change-over between calibers. The downside off the Lee compared to the Dillon is when it comes to case-trimming, but it is so much cheaper, does a newbie really need a 650?

Maybe if I can find a fairly quick way to trim/chamfer cases, the Lee it should be. Cabellas has free shipping through Friday so the whole thing would be $150. very tempting. Very tempting indeed. I am wondering if I can get my new C&R applied with Midway on Friday if that applies to the Lee or not, since it's already on sale.

P.S. sorry for being indicisive. The more I read, the more I go from one to the other, and back and forth...

Sometimes cheap is not better, let the internet be your friend, do a search on Lee 1000 reviews and start reading.

If you want a press you can actually spend time loading on instead of adjusting, fixing and fighting with Lee customer service, buy a Dillion. Again best money you will ever spend.

On loading rifle on a Dillion, I run my 550 as a single stage/semi progressive.

If you don't need to trim and you don't mind cleaning the case lube off the rounds after they are loaded, you can run the 550 fully progressive.

Personally I don't like dealing with lubed cases after they are loaded and I like to full lenght size and trim as a lot of my rifle ammo goes in semi-auto firearms as well as bolt actions.

When I load rifle here is what I do using my 550.

1.) Clean cases ( in tumbler)

2.) Full-length resize (on dillion in station 1)

3.) Trim, primer pocket uniform,flash hole uniform deburr and chamfer cases and any other case prep.

4.) Clean lube off of completed resized trimmed cases, preped cases in tumbler.

5.) Prime,powder charge,seat bullet and crimp(if needed). On Dillion using all 4 stations.

If you do it right case prep is the time consuming part.

This is why a 550 suits me better, plus I can load for my hanguns pretty efficently.

Pistol cases using carbide dies requires no lube, also ymmv but I have never had to trim pistol cases.

[dlm37015]

bless the usa the lee progresive stuff is JUNK dont waste yout money on it .i am a firm beliver of starting with a single stage first. if you are getting a progressive because you dont have time then you dont have time to reload.if you live near ashland city i have most of the presses in my shop you can try them .as far as rifle ammo goes if you have to trim it i can load it on a single stage much faster than you can with a progressive .although as of late i have been loading 223 on a 1050 dillon and 9 mm on a camdex just my 2 cents worth if just loading ammo as fast as you can because you dont have time then order it from someone

[mikegideon]

For rifle, if you weigh all your powder charges (like I do), it breaks things up to the point that I can see very little benefit to a progressive for that kind of ammo. Brass prep is still the ugliest, most time consuming part of the whole process. My next big purchase will be in that area.

I've read bad things about Lee progressives as well. Lee makes some good stuff, but lots of folks agree with DLM on their progressive presses

[SonnyCrockett]

bless the usa the lee progresive stuff is JUNK dont waste yout money on it .i am a firm beliver of starting with a single stage first. if you are getting a progressive because you dont have time then you dont have time to reload.if you live near ashland city i have most of the presses in my shop you can try them .as far as rifle ammo goes if you have to trim it i can load it on a single stage much faster than you can with a progressive .although as of late i have been loading 223 on a 1050 dillon and 9 mm on a camdex just my 2 cents worth if just loading ammo as fast as you can because you dont have time then order it from someone

Dont bash and I think Lee make a few great reloading parts......I use his

Auto Disc hopper on my Dillon press and my Dillon hopper is laying in the carton it came it.

Lee also makes a few other nice gadgets as well - I like the Auto Disc because I keep records of

my loads........for instance 9MM I know that lets say a .47 hole will drop 5.2g of PP and I make a chart

for it and every hole size .......So if Im loading 40SW and I need 6.9 of PP I can go to my chart and grab the .63

disc and within ONE pull its on the scale reading what my book said it was gonna read..........

NONE of the other brands get this and want you to re invent the wheel everytime you load up a recipe

Sort of like the chart lee supplies with his dies,only mines accurate and his is left field LOL

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I only load pistol. May some day do .223.

An auto index press isn't a complete deal-killer working part-way thru the stations, at least with the dillon sdb. Maybe it would be more frustrating with some other model of progressive. The SDB has little metal "buttons" inserted beside the shellholder in stations 2, 3, and 4 which keep the shell from coming out of the holder as it rotates around.

When I got frustrated with inconsistency in range pickup pistol primer pockets-- a percentage of them would be too off-size and not want to prime good-- Decided to uniform the primer pockets as a preventative step.

It was easy-- Remove the retaining button from station 2.

Just feed brass to station 1, full-length-resize and decap with a lever pull, and then the brass would rotate to station 2 where I would remove the brass and drop in a bin for later hand-processing. It wasn't extremely frustrating to work "semi single stage". After each lever pull insert a raw case with the right hand while removing a sized-decapped case with the left hand. That is PROBABLY about as fast as doing that single step on a single-stage or non-progressive, but maybe not.

With a single-stage or non-progressive you could keep one hand on the lever all the time and use the other hand to handle brass, so that might be slightly faster? Doing it on a progressive you have to release the lever after every pull in order to handle brass, but it might be faster handling brass because in that case you are using two hands for the task? Maybe it is a wash as to which is quicker or more convenient?

I recently got a Lee hand press and universal decap die so I don't have to go to the shop and stand up at the bench just to mass-decap, but that was just basic laziness rather than the SDB being inappropriate to use as a single-stage substitute.

I can see if one did a variety of different calibers, it would be very handy to have a decent single-stage press on the bench for assorted tasks, even if one also uses a progressive press.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Good point. Here are the instructions for the press. http://media.midwayusa.com/pdf/instructions/Pro_1000.pdf It looks like they assume you have brass that is already re-sized and trimmed. So I would need to buy a .223 resizing die, run all cases through the press once with just that die, then trim, and then run them all through again with the stock dies. Does that sound right?[/url]

There is probably wider variety of processes for rifle loading. I think I read that sometimes people just neck-resize.

On the sdb for pistol rounds, the first stage does decap and full-length resize. The full length resize die has a decap pin in the middle so it does both with a lever pull. So if your die set includes a combination decap/size die, then you would only have to run the brass thru the first stage of a progressive, rather than buy anything extra.

[mikegideon]

Dont bash and I think Lee make a few great reloading parts......I use his

Auto Disc hopper on my Dillon press and my Dillon hopper is laying in the carton it came it.

Lee also makes a few other nice gadgets as well - I like the Auto Disc because I keep records of

my loads........for instance 9MM I know that lets say a .47 hole will drop 5.2g of PP and I make a chart

for it and every hole size .......So if Im loading 40SW and I need 6.9 of PP I can go to my chart and grab the .63

disc and within ONE pull its on the scale reading what my book said it was gonna read..........

NONE of the other brands get this and want you to re invent the wheel everytime you load up a recipe

Sort of like the chart lee supplies with his dies,only mines accurate and his is left field LOL

I don't think DLM was bashing Lee in general. He has recommended some of their stuff to me. But, if a guy that's had his hands on probably every progressive press out there tells me something is "junk", I'm probably gonna listen. Some of their stuff is as good or better than anything out there, and some of it sucks.

[mikegideon]

There is probably wider variety of processes for rifle loading. I think I read that sometimes people just neck-resize.

.

... for a bolt gun. You need to full length resize for an AR and other autoloaders.

[Guest TresOsos]

... for a bolt gun. You need to full length resize for an AR and other autoloaders.

Even in a bolt gun you need to full length resize, unless the spent Brass is used in the exact same bolt gun, then you can get by with neck sizing only that brass for that gun.

[mikegideon]

Even in a bolt gun you need to full length resize, unless the spent Brass is used in the exact same bolt gun, then you can get by with neck sizing only that brass for that gun.

Yep.

[dlm37015]

i think lee makes great dies and every dillon powder funnel /case expander is borrowed from lee .some of you know that i sell reloading supplies some dont i stand behind everything i sell if it brecks i that it back .i have a box full of lee progressive presses that dont work i am not bashing lee just telling it like it is with lees warrenty being what it is i had to stop selling there progressive presses

as of late i have been selling more hornady lock and loads than dillons imo the hornady is a better press than a 550 on par with a 650.if you ever get a chance to pick up a star reloading press jump on it its the best progressive around again i have most of them set up in my reloading room if you want to try one let me know

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Is the Dillon 1050 the only one that can do primer pocket reaming? As a follow-on question, is the primer pocket reaming "about the same" as uniforming? In other words, something which ought to near-automatically fix up most tight-primer seating issues?

Maybe I'm too obsessed with the issue, but it seems that a gadget or station on a progressive that could eliminate virtually all primer seating problems, would be a very desirable function. That would be more attractive to me than auto-case-feeding or whatever.

[dlm37015]

it doesnt ream them it swages them and yes that uniforms them as well as taking out the crimp without removing metal

[Guest Lester Weevils]

it doesnt ream them it swages them and yes that uniforms them as well as taking out the crimp without removing metal

Thanks David

So it just mashes heck out of the primer pocket to make sure it is the correct shape? Neat.

[R_Bert]

RCBS makes a good pocket swager also - Primer Pocket Swager Combo

[dlm37015]

i have both the dillon and rcbs but use the gracey primer pocket reamer most of the time btw anybody that wants a gracey trimmer they are easy to make we have made about 10 copies of mine so if you are in middle tn you can copy it as well

[Raoul]

i think lee makes great dies and every dillon powder funnel /case expander is borrowed from lee .some of you know that i sell reloading supplies some dont i stand behind everything i sell if it brecks i that it back .i have a box full of lee progressive presses that dont work i am not bashing lee just telling it like it is with lees warrenty being what it is i had to stop selling there progressive presses

as of late i have been selling more hornady lock and loads than dillons imo the hornady is a better press than a 550 on par with a 650.if you ever get a chance to pick up a star reloading press jump on it its the best progressive around again i have most of them set up in my reloading room if you want to try one let me know

This is good advice.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

i have both the dillon and rcbs but use the gracey primer pocket reamer most of the time btw anybody that wants a gracey trimmer they are easy to make we have made about 10 copies of mine so if you are in middle tn you can copy it as well

Thanks David

I don't ever go anywhere or do anything, but would otherwise love to visit and look at yer toys and pick your brain. It would be lots of fun.

I read about the RCBS swager that looks great. Reading about it, looks like most people only apply the RCBS swager "just enough" to knock out a crimp, rather than using it to brute-force all pockets to the correct dimensions?

I looked up that gracey primer pocket reamer and found the gracey web site and the patent application with drawings. The Gracey looks neat as well.

Is the most important part the Gracey reamer bit itself? With three cutting surfaces? Front, side, and chamfer?

Was looking at the various uniformer bits for sale at midwayusa. Saw a couple of cutter bits that might be better than the RCBS prep center uniformer bit that I'm currently using. The RCBS bit only cuts from the front and seems primarily useful when a primer pocket is the correct diameter but is not deep enough or if it is not square-bottomed. That RCBS bit is almost useful to slightly enlarge a pocket diameter with the prep center, if the pocket only needs very slight enlargement. But if the pocket diameter is too small, it takes a long time and is hard on the fingers to hold the case firm enough to keep it from rotating. It could be chucked in the lathe but that takes a lot of time for each case.

Been getting a fairly decent chamfer on primer pockets which need a chamfer, with an ordinary inside case mouth chamfer tool.

A very sharp bit that could cut all three surfaces would be useful.

Since I got interested in it again the last couple of weeks, processed a couple of thousand 9mm cases. Finally started just tossing any case that wouldn't fit on the RCBS uniformer bit without blistering my fingers. But those real tight cases ought to be salvagable with a proper really sharp cutting bit. OTOH, its only a couple of discarded cases per hundred and the dang things were free anyway, so maybe its not worth messing with em.

[Guest]

if I'm reading this correctly, of the two die sets linked, the 2-die set crimps the bullet at the same time as seating it. So for the sake of options, I would want the 3-die set.

Pacesetter 2-Die Set 223 Remington Ackley Improved 40-Degree Shoulder

Pacesetter 3-Die Set 223 Remington

But then again the Lee press in .223 comes with a 2-die set, so honestly, I'm not sure. I think the reason for the 2-die set is so if you were not going to trim the .223, you could deprime, prime, charge, and load a bullet on in one cycle around the press? So maybe then the 2-die set is better after all.

I guess while I was allured by the idea of speed, the 3 "passes" for .223 would be OK to get started...

* once around the press to deprime and full length resize.

* trim the brass, and chamfer, by some to-be-determined method.

* load the trimmed brass into the press to prime (station 1), charge (station 2), and load and crimp (station 3). ok, I just convinved myself why I need the 2-die set.

Does the above sound correct? If so, I guess I'll go ahead down this route. Heck the whole press with dies is $150. Worst case a year from now I decide to upgrade and I still have the dies, etc.

I'll get 9mm dies too, and get proficient loading that before attempting .223.

I'm going to go ahead and buy the brass 'n bullets for both cailbers, judging by inflation at the store, everything will be going up. But then that's just an uneducated hunch. :-)

P.S. to get the .223 brass for about 4.8c a piece, it is crimped. As a newbie, if I wanted to throw a swaging die (like this here) into the first run around the press (depriming and full-length resize), would I be setting myself up for any issues? I've looked at the dillon manual swager, but if I could do it during the same cycle of the press, that would be great. Once it's properly swaged, will that cause the brass to wear out any more rapidly due to the deformation?

Edited December 18, 2011 by Guest