Picking a press to purchase

[Guest]

The calibers I want to reload are 9mm and .223.

I know Dillon is the best, but I am trying to get into this with a little lower budget at first. However, I do want to go the progressive route in order to save time.

I am thinking of getting a Lee Pro 1000 in 9mm with the case collator and possibly bullet feeder (may just add bullet feeder later). My thinking is I'll expend some of the learning curve on 9mm before trying the .223.

Then I'll get a set of .223 dies. As far as trimming, I wanted to mount the Dillion 1200b trimmer on the progressive press to trim cases rapidly. reloading .223 (4 of 13) - YouTube

However, with the Lee Pro 1000 only having 3 stages, I don't think this will work, as far as the space required on the tool head :-( Can anyone recommend another somewhat-budget-consious press with more states, or should I just suck it up and get a dillon, or am I missing something and the Lee will do what I want it too?

Thanks!

Edit: does anyone have experience with Delta-Precision bullets in 124gr JHP? http://precisiondelta.com/detail.php?sku=B-9-124-JHP

What powder and primers should I pick up to get started? I guess I'll buy a couple of pounds powder and 1k primers locally at first. ...And yes, a reloading manual of some sort. But I need to figure out which recipe out of all the ones in the manual to start with :-)

Edited December 15, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

I am looking at this scale because it is accurate to +/- 1/20 of a grain. The cheap digitals were +/- .3 grain, etc. My concern with this one however, is that because its maximum weight is 110 grains, I cannot weigh completed bullets. Should I look for something else? Cabela's: Lee Safety Powder Scale

I have heard good things about the Lyman Pro 2500 Magnum tumbler, but this one's almost half the price. Any reason to avoid the Cabela's brand? http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Reloading/Tumblers-Scales|/pc/104792580/c/104761080/sc/104661180/Cabelas-Model-400-Case-Tumbler/731767.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fshooting-reloading-tumblers-scales%2F_%2FN-1100197%2B4294771260%2FNe-4294771260%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104661180%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%3BMMcat104792580%3Bcat104761080%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_stype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104792580%3Bcat104761080%3Bcat104661180

Edited December 15, 2011 by Guest

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hi BlessTheUSA. Sorry I got carried away with the comments. Maybe something is useful below.

There are so many presses and approaches to loading, can't give much advice. I've only had a Dillon Square Deal B and it has been trouble free light use more than 10 years. That model only loads straight walled pistol calibers and does not use industry-standard dies so you have to buy the Dillon special SDB dies. The Dillon SDB dies are fine as best I can tell, but if I ever get another press then it won't use the dies purchased for the SDB.

Some people keep an SDB around dedicated to high volume pistol loading and use other methods for rifle calibers. I don't know enough to have an opinion, but some experienced loaders have claimed that the SDB is almost ideal for loading pistol ammo.

If I knew then what I know now, would probably have bought a decked-out Dillon XL-650 without a second thought, but at the time I didn't know if I'd stay interested in reloading or have any success at it.

Many accessories will depend on whatever method and equipment you decide to use. I am very ignorant on reloading (and most everything else), but here are some "universal" things you need--

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-- At least one good reloading book, and you ought to read the first few chapters at least twice.

====

-- A good scale. Some people like old beam balances and others like electronic. I think beam balances are kewl but do not have the patience to use one. You don't need the most expensive digital lab quality scale that money will buy, but it might be unwise to buy the cheapest unit. You need to have a pretty accurate idea of your charge weights. In order for a scale to accurately measure powder to within +/- 0.1 grain, it needs a basic resolution/accuracy of +/- 0.005 milligrams. To me that would be the minimum acceptable. It may be that if you spend about $75 or better from one of the primary reloading supply companies (hornady, RCBS, Lyman, etc) that it would be a better scale for the purpose than a similarly-priced generic scale. I don't know that for a fact, and the reloading companies buy their scales from the same chinese companies that make all the others, but perhaps the reloading suppliers are very concerned with customers blowing themselves up and apply stricter QC versus price when outsourcing. Only a guess.

-- Even with an excellent scale, inexpert operation gives inaccurate measurements. It takes practice to learn to use the scale well. Electronic scales can drift and should be checked routinely to make sure they are still in the ballpark. That is easy and quick to do, but IMO you need to remember to do it pretty frequently.

-- It is not absolutely necessary, but very useful to have an assortment of pretty-decent check weights to double-check the scale. I saw some little sets of checkweights at the gun store the other day, under a reloading supplier brand name. They seemed a little over priced for what was offered, but on the other hand the checkweights were calibrated in various grain weightings. There is a company americanweigh.com that sells fairly inexpensive and apparently pretty good, gram-scaled checkweights. It is easy to toggle most of the reloading quality digital scales between grams and grains, so either way would be fine.

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-- It would be good (IMO) to have both calipers and a micrometer. An inexpensive micrometer will typically be accurate to at least 0.001, because of the design of micrometers. They would have to screw up making a micrometer pretty bad to be extremely inaccurate. Calipers also ought to be within +/- 0.001 inch, but I've found that sometimes the cheap ones can be worse than that. With some cheap electronic calipers you can measure something 5 times and get 5 different numbers. That is why I think it would be good to have both calipers and micrometer. So if the calipers are giving you grief, you can double check with the micrometer.

-- You won't need to use the tools real frequently after you are setup for a load, but you gotta have them for setting up.

-- Using calipers and micrometers is also a learned skill. Some people do it better than others, but it takes some practice to get halfway decent measurements even with the finest instruments.

-- Though it would be wonderful to sink hundreds of dollars in made-in-usa Starrett instruments, the chinese instruments are good for the price. It seems that all the inexpensive calipers sold by reloading suppliers are basically the same as sold by Harbor freight.

-- Currently Harbor Freight is selling a nice enough digital 6" caliper for about $20. They also sell what seems to be a nice-enough 6" stainless dial caliper for about $20. They are currently selling a set of three micrometers, 1", 2", and 3", for $30.

-- I have a 40 year old nice made-in-usa 1" micrometer I originally bought for piano repair, for measuring piano wire and such. Calipers were more spensive a decade ago when I started reloading and paid quite a bit for a made-in-germany fiberglass dial caliper that was "pretty good". Back then the steel calipers were still a big chunk of change. Then I got an 8" Harbor Freight digital caliper a few years ago. The nice thing about digitals is the same as with digital scales-- You can measure either inches or mm with the touch of a button, and the cheap ones are fairly repeatable when new.

I used the snot out of the cheap HF digital stainless caliper in the last few years, and the stainless steel part has held up but the little plastic measuring module still works but is about to fall apart.

In most of the silly things I do, an error of 0.001" is not fatal. In addition, if a caliper is repeatable then in some cases an absolute small error doesn't matter as long as you can measure good enough to make both part A and part B to match the same (slightly inaccurate) measurements.

However, occasionally in reloading a difference of 0.001" is important and it is nagging when you can't have confidence in the measurement. Trying to occasionally get the most accurate measurement possible, I'd measure with both my calipers and the old micrometer and get a spread of a few thousandths. In cases where the micrometer could be used to make the measurement, that was the one to trust of course.

Recently I experimentally purchased the three harbor freight items mentioned above, $70 total plus tax. "Pittsburgh" chinese tools, item # 47257, 66541, 66512. Have several options when trying to get a true measurement. The digital because it is relatively accurate, fast, repeatable, and works inches or mm. The dial caliper because if taken care of will probably last longer and I trust a dial better. The micrometers because they are slow but potentially the most accurate. However there are many situations impossible or difficult to use a micrometer but easy with calipers.

I experimented with them a couple of hours, and at least fresh out of the box they seem pretty good for the money. They all agree with each other to within 0.001", and the micrometers still need slight tweaking. Unless I want to buy real expensive instruments, am probably gonna have to settle for not EXACTLY knowing that last thousandth.

Apologies being so long-winded. Just sayin, if you only buy ONE cheap measuring instrument, you will never have any idea whether it is lying to you, or how much it is lying.

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-- Case gages for each caliber of interest. Like these-- Dillon Precision: Reloaders, Reloading Equipment, Bullet Reloading, Bullet Reloaders

If a loaded round will fit the case gage, and it doesn't stick out the other end, then you have pretty good confidence that it will also fit in the gun. When I was starting out I'd test every round in the case gage. It is quick to do. After gaining confidence it isn't necessary to check every round, but it is a wonderful inexpensive reality check.

[Guest]

Lester,

Thanks for all the info. I have used micrometers and calipers for years, so I don't think I'll suffer too much in that area.

I'm leaning toward the Lee 1000 just because it is cheap, can be run as a turret press or progressive press, and (as far as I can tell) has standard dies that will work in a dillon as well. It looks like it really will do everything I need, with the exception of allowing me to use the electric case trimmer, which is a "want" (but a really wanted one). I guess once I get good at loading 9mm, then I can figure out whether I want to do the .223 on the Lee or do something like a dillon, etc.

I'm going to drive over to the shop with reloading supplies just to browse, but read the Lyman's 49 and pick a recipe before I buy any powder and primers. I'm going to go ahead and get the press, Delta-precision JHP bullets, and some brass I suppose. And I guess a tumbler. This stuff adds up!

Does anyone happen to know of an economical 5-stage press (i.e. like the dillons) that I have missed?

Thanks!

[mikegideon]

I am looking at this scale because it is accurate to +/- 1/20 of a grain. The cheap digitals were +/- .3 grain, etc. My concern with this one however, is that because its maximum weight is 110 grains, I cannot weigh completed bullets. Should I look for something else? Cabela's: Lee Safety Powder Scale

I have heard good things about the Lyman Pro 2500 Magnum tumbler, but this one's almost half the price. Any reason to avoid the Cabela's brand? Cabela's: Cabela's Model 400 Case Tumbler

That Lee scale is a serious turd. I have one, and used it once. It's accurate, but a huge pain in the butt. If you want a balance scale, get an RCBS. I use the RCBS Chargemaster. It's only accurate to .1 grain, but my velocities are more consistent than Black hills ammo.

FWIW, the Lee Powder measure sucks too.

[R_Bert]

An alternate to the Dillon....with special deal

Graf & Sons - HRN PRESS LOCK-N-LOAD AP WITH CASE PREP ASSISTANT

[mikegideon]

Lester,

I have 3 electronic powerder scales, and they all came with check weights, even the cheapie.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

If there is a Sportsmans Warehous in your area, might be worth a visit as a double-check or alternate source. Was looking around in the Chatt Sportsmans Warehouse a couple days ago and they were pretty well-stocked with reloading supplies and the prices were pretty close to MidwayUSA prices on a lot of stuff.

Maybe buying brass direct from Starline would work as good as anything else. Though its lots cheaper to pick up at the range. The price of bags of new brass at Sportsmans Warehouse was pretty high.

I bet the delta precision bullets will be fine.

I have read that Winchester primers are very popular-- Supposedly they work pretty good and are not as expensive as some. I just randomly started out using federal primers and they worked fine so I kept using them. I have a box of 1000 winchester primers I need to use up sometime, but loads can slightly vary depending on the primer so I've been putting it off as long as I can get federal primers that are a known quantity. But the federal primers are slightly more expensive. Some people say that federal primers are more sensitive and preferable if you happen to have a gun with relatively weak firing pin strike. That can sometimes be a side-effect when people tune triggers to be real light, by changing out springs. And maybe some pistol models are just naturally weaker than others.

I have a cheap Frankford Arsenal tumbler that still works great after 10 years. Harbor Freight sells vibratory tumblers that look identical to all the others. Maybe they would work just as good.

People use lots of cheap stuff like pet supplies for tumbling. I've used Lyman walnut and corncob media just because that is what was on the shelf. Works fine. Lasts a long time before you have to change it out.

The Lyman rouge walnut knocks off the major dirt and corrosion but leaves rouge dust on the rounds and the rounds are usable and clean but not shiny-new bright. After a few years I started using corncob and Flitz media additive after the walnut. An hour (or two if real dirty) in the walnut, followed by an hour with corncob + flitz, makes cases that look brand new shiny and no rouge left on the rounds.

Carbide dies are preferable and don't seem real expensive.

I reloaded a lot of rounds on the SDB with the decapping and priming with the SDB but lately have been doing decapping and priming before loading the rounds on the SDB. That is one reason I don't know if it is worth having a lot of stages on a press, if maybe doing some steps by hand gives more repeatable results (but perhaps a little slower). That XL-650 apparently you could have auto-primer pocket reaming and also sizing, but I've never done rifle loading or used an XL-650 so dunno if it would be as practical as it sounds. Lots of people load with a single-stage and are satisfied with the speed and quality. Dunno.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Lester,

I have 3 electronic powerder scales, and they all came with check weights, even the cheapie.

Hi Mike

Yes they mostly all come with a calibration weight, but that is only one point of reference. That one point of refernce is just fine if one has confidence that the scale is operating properly. Maybe I'm too obsessive or distrustful, but just because a scale correctly reads 0 grams and 200 grams doesn't tell you much about what it will read if you put a 1 gram or 10 gram check weight on the scale.

[mikegideon]

Hi Mike

Yes they mostly all come with a calibration weight, but that is only one point of reference. That one point of refernce is just fine if one has confidence that the scale is operating properly. Maybe I'm too obsessive or distrustful, but just because a scale correctly reads 0 grams and 200 grams doesn't tell you much about what it will read if you put a 1 gram or 10 gram check weight on the scale.

Maybe you are . My RCBS scales have to each.

[mikegideon]

An alternate to the Dillon....with special deal

Graf & Sons - HRN PRESS LOCK-N-LOAD AP WITH CASE PREP ASSISTANT

6.8 AR has a lock and load progressive, and he makes great ammo. Rifle and pistol.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

One other useful thing-- For years I separated brass from media with a kitchen strainer, then finally got an RCBS cheap separator that looks like this and cost about $30--

Which is also sold under other brand names. It isn't the perfect separator, mainly because the hinges come apart too easy and go back together too slow. But it hasn't broken yet and does its job lots better than a kitchen seive. There may be better separators, but this one works and is worth the money.

[mikegideon]

+1 on the RCBS seperator. Don't think there's any better

[SonnyCrockett]

The calibers I want to reload are 9mm and .223.

I know Dillon is the best, but I am trying to get into this with a little lower budget at first. However, I do want to go the progressive route in order to save time.

I am thinking of getting a Lee Pro 1000 in 9mm with the case collator and possibly bullet feeder (may just add bullet feeder later). My thinking is I'll expend some of the learning curve on 9mm before trying the .223.

Then I'll get a set of .223 dies. As far as trimming, I wanted to mount the Dillion 1200b trimmer on the progressive press to trim cases rapidly. reloading .223 (4 of 13) - YouTube

However, with the Lee Pro 1000 only having 3 stages, I don't think this will work, as far as the space required on the tool head :-( Can anyone recommend another somewhat-budget-consious press with more states, or should I just suck it up and get a dillon, or am I missing something and the Lee will do what I want it too?

Thanks!

Edit: does anyone have experience with Delta-Precision bullets in 124gr JHP? Precision Delta - Competition Ammunition

What powder and primers should I pick up to get started? I guess I'll buy a couple of pounds powder and 1k primers locally at first. ...And yes, a reloading manual of some sort. But I need to figure out which recipe out of all the ones in the manual to start with :-)

I reload PLENTY of Delta bullets and have a few thou of them 124s on the shelf .....The run well and are cheap,I also use Berrys.....just as good or better

Primers CCI run well and I use PowerPistol for pretty much all my hand gun loads now a days except MAGS

When buying a press.......The one question you need to ask is HOW MANY ROUNDS do you plan on shooting a month

If the press costs 99.99 and your looking to shoot 500 or more rounds your arm is gonna be toast ..I started with a Lee,it worked OK

learned all I needed to learn and sold it for a Dillon......Dillon is overpriced for sure but they hold value and are set and forget presses

I set a load and RUN and dont stop .....With the Lee its a battle - I want to make bullets , not fidget with parts and jams,my time is valuable to me

Rifle guys take their time im sure but for hand gun loads,run em baby run em!

I use a cheap Midway scale,digital and its quick and accurate , 35 bucks.....measured the same as my buddys 200.00 scale

For a sifter I used a simple 10.00 franklin arsenal media separator on top of a 5 gallon paint bucket ,simple and effective....can sift 500 rounds of brass in seconds

Edited December 16, 2011 by SonnyCrockett

[dlm37015]

hi mike i am still having trouble with the coax press you can come get mine if you like as i cant see well enough to reload anything right now .bless the usa i wouldnr get the pro 1000 if i were you as while lee makes some good reloading stuff there progressaves are lacking .save a little more money get a hornady lock and load ap if you want a progresive press.if you are new to reloading i would get a good single stage press first yes i know there are lots of folks that will say i didnt do that it cost them more money in the long run cause if you buy a reloading kit you get scale trimmer all the other stuff you need the press is pretty much free

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hi Mike

Yes they mostly all come with a calibration weight, but that is only one point of reference. That one point of refernce is just fine if one has confidence that the scale is operating properly. Maybe I'm too obsessive or distrustful, but just because a scale correctly reads 0 grams and 200 grams doesn't tell you much about what it will read if you put a 1 gram or 10 gram check weight on the scale.

Maybe you are . My RCBS scales have to each.

Yes I have one scale that calibrates on three weights. My reloading scale is an antique Lyman digital and I keep a close eye on it until it finally burns up or gets superceded by something better.

You know me, things always seem like a good idea at the time. Occasionally I would get curious what some little gadget I made would weigh, and was occasionally buying precious metals ranging from 1 oz up to 100 oz bars and thought it might be a good idea to accurately weigh them and make sure I wasn't getting ripped off. And have the ability to occasionally use specific gravity to make educated guesses as to whether the metal was as advertised. In addition to just enjoying gadgets.

So for awhile embarked on a digital scale quest. First got a scale with 0.01 gram resolution which can weigh up to 500 grams. Then got a scale with 0.1 gram resolution which can weigh up to 2 kg. Then finally got an Acculab with 1 gram resolution which can weigh up to 10 kg. So it also seemed like a good idea to be able to verify the scales' linearity, and it wasn't incredibly expensive to get check weights in a 1-2-2-5 sequence going from 10 mg up to 5 kg. So in theory if I wanted a half-ass accurate weight beyond the 10 kg the Acculab can measure, I could jury rig a large non-symmetrical beam balance and directly use the check weights to take a measurement.

The last step in my evil plan is to get a fairly decent milligram-resolution scale, which will also be useful as a fancy powder scale. Haven't yet got that final piece of the puzzle. Maybe Santa will bring me one. It just seems like such a good idea.

[Guest]

I went to the reloading shop today and talked to the guy behind the counter, very nice and helped to answer some of these questions too. The Dillon presses really do look nice. Like he said, they're something you're going to keep forever.

So now I'm debating going the 550 / 650 route and having a press I'll use forever instead of getting something basic and then upgrading.... decisions, decisions... Of course, the easier it is to reload quickly (once I learn the ropes) the more I'll probably load and shoot.... which is good and bad (bad for the wallet :-) )

I did pick up the Hornady reloading manual, and I'm going to read the first few chapters that explain reloading. Maybe that will help!

[mikegideon]

hi mike i am still having trouble with the coax press you can come get mine if you like as i cant see well enough to reload anything right now .bless the usa i wouldnr get the pro 1000 if i were you as while lee makes some good reloading stuff there progressaves are lacking .save a little more money get a hornady lock and load ap if you want a progresive press.if you are new to reloading i would get a good single stage press first yes i know there are lots of folks that will say i didnt do that it cost them more money in the long run cause if you buy a reloading kit you get scale trimmer all the other stuff you need the press is pretty much free

I finally got a co-ax. The last one in the entire world, I think. Haven't had a chance to load anything, but it's bolted to the bench. i know you had bigger fish to fry last week. Hope you're feeling OK.

[mikegideon]

I went to the reloading shop today and talked to the guy behind the counter, very nice and helped to answer some of these questions too. The Dillon presses really do look nice. Like he said, they're something you're going to keep forever.

So now I'm debating going the 550 / 650 route and having a press I'll use forever instead of getting something basic and then upgrading.... decisions, decisions... Of course, the easier it is to reload quickly (once I learn the ropes) the more I'll probably load and shoot.... which is good and bad (bad for the wallet :-) )

I did pick up the Hornady reloading manual, and I'm going to read the first few chapters that explain reloading. Maybe that will help!

If you think the Dillon is what you need, then you're best off to find a way to pony up. I'm saying this as someone who has a slightly used press lying in the floor right now. The one that replaced it will be on my bench until I'm too old and feeble to reload anymore. Price should be low on your priority list when it comes to a press. They'll last longer than you will.

[Okey]

Come on Mike. Post a picture of that beast you just bought.

[Guest TresOsos]

BlessTheUSA,

I'll just cut to the chase, Get a Dillion RL-550B, it will simply be the best money you ever spend, if you end up enjoying reloading you will get one anyway. The press will work as advertised, Dillion customer service and support, if you need it, is absolutely the best in the industry.Scales, Beam scale get the Dillion Eliminator, Digital the Dillion Dominator, tumbler get a Dillion. Am i a Dillion fan you bet ya, they are the best in the industry bar none, absolutelly first rate QUALITY equipment. Their lifetime warranty is truely a lifetime warranty, need a part they send it to you and right away, no wait, no hassles, no BS. I could tell you a few stories because in 20 years of using a RL-550B that's all I've ever needed customer service or support and they have always stood behind their product and cheerfully did what was needed to make me happy and resolve the issue. Regardless of what anyone says, they are overpriced or too expensive, BS, you get what you pay for and that is a first class piece of reloading equipment, first class quality and first class support.

[Guest]

Ok, the field is getting narrowed down!

Other than cost, why would I want the 550 vs the 650? The guy at the shop did say I might want to start on the 550 just because I won't get ahead of myself while I am learning. However, the 650 can be run slow, but also allows more options down the road.

On either one, I only need to order the press itself, the 3-die pistol set, and a scale and tumbler, right?

Not to change the topic, but I have read guys posting online they load 9mm for 7 to 10 cents. How are they doing this? If I use brass I pickup rather than buy, I can do it for about 16 cents. My first batches are going to be about 20 cents using purchased once-fired brass since I don't have that much on hand. At 20 cents, I'm not really saving anything. Although it looks like I can save about 1/3 on .223, it would help to save on 9mm too.... if that's possible without casting bullets.

But anyway - I'm about ready to pickup a press and dies. And the cheapest decent usable scale I can get.

Edit: Wow, the .223 die set costs as much as the entire Lee 1000 with dies! Yes, I realize this is an investment, which is why I am telling myself I should start reloading asap, but gosh, it can be expensive!

Edited December 16, 2011 by Guest

[Guest TresOsos]

I reload and shoot 6K plus a year of pistol and I reload for 4 rifle calibers. Auto indexing and auto case feed etc doesn't really appeal to me.

I like to keep a close eye on the loading operation and manual indexing with the 550 allows me to do that. Also I like to run the 550 as a single stage/ semi-single stage press when reloading rifle. Over all what I like about the 550 is it's simplicity.

As for cost well you have to shop around and find bargins, manage your resources. Brass is a high initial expense but I've been able to find deals on once fired here lately, also you can get several loadings out of it, some of my pistol brass I can't tell you how many times it's been reloaded. Bullets are a big expense now, when I first started loading I paid $28 a K for .45 200grn SWC's. Now I buy bulk 15 to 20K or more at a time and I go to the manufacturer to pick it up. I get a big discount for paying cash and saves me shipping. I don't make special trips, I do the pickups in conjunction with other commitments. I buy powder in 4 or 8lbs quantities at gun shows and I always ask for a price break. Primers, again I look for good deals and buy in 5K and greater quantities. I load mainly for .45acp and cost have gone way up but I can still load for less that half of what commercial ammo sells for, with maybe the exception of TULA, but I won't shoot that stuff in my pistols.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

In ignorance, having never used either the 550 or 650-- Considering the relatively small price difference, I can't understand why a 550 would be better, but I don't hardly understand anything. In addition, the SDB and the 650 are both auto-indexing presses (the shellholder automatically rotates with each lever cycle), whereas the 550 does not auto-index.

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Some people may be more accurate than others in accounting for the per-round cost. In addition, people don't often calculate their labor. On the other hand well-made reloads are often better ammo than common factory ammo, and it is difficult to monetarily account for the difference in quality.

Some people have been reloading and hoarding components since the dawn of time, so their cost of components is much lower than current cost. If a guy is still loading out of stock acquired 10 years ago then his price will be really low by modern standards.

People who cast bullets out of "free" wheel weights have labor and electricity costs, but could claim their bullets are free, which would drastically reduce the cost. If you recycle brass, the bullet is the biggest expense.

Buying components in quantity can sometimes cut the cost profoundly. Buying on sales, closeouts and specials can cut the cost.

I don't buy brass, so here are some sample costs neglecting labor, equipment amortization, electricity and numerous other tiny incidental costs-- Some people find real good deals. I comparison shop a little bit, but some people are REALLY good at it.

Recently bought 3000 Rainier 124 gr 9mm plated bullets for $251.97 = 8.399 cents per round. Rainier are very consistent, good shooting practice ammo bullets. Similar to Berry plated bullets.

Have some older primers that costed less, but recently bought new Federal primers retail at $37.99 per 1000 = 3.799 cents per round (some primers don't cost that much)

A few years ago bought a few 4 pound canisters of Ramshot powder at $64 per can-- 4 pounds = 28000 grains.

-- Typical 9mm max load of Ramshot Zip would be about 4.4 gr = 1.0057 cents per round

-- Typical 9mm "near max" load of Ramshot Silhouette would be about 5.5 gr = 1.257 cents per round

So a Zip max load of Rainier 124 bullets would be about 13.2037 cents per round. A stiffer Silhouette max round would increase to 13.455 cents per round.

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Recently bought 2000 Rem 124gr JHP (pretty nice bullets) for $207.99 or 10.3995 cents per round. The load data and primer cost would be the same as the above example.

So a Zip max load of Rem 124gr JHP would be about 15.2041 cents per round. A Full-tilt-boogie Sillhouette Rem 124gr JHP load would cost a little more at 15.4555 cents per round.

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A more expensive example-- Bought Hornady 124gr XTP HP bullets for $15 per hundred. They rarely go on sale. That is 15 cents per bullet. The primer cost remains the same and the powder load stays very close to the same.

So a Zip max load of XTP 124gr JHP would be about 19.8047 cents per round. A full-tilt-boogie Silhouette XTP 124gr JHP would cost a little more at 20.056 cents per round.

=====

By comparison, it is difficult to get decent practice ammo much cheaper than wallyworld 9mm 115 gr Federal practice ammo maybe $12.50 per 50 after tax. About 25 cents per round.

Therefore my Rainier 124gr roundnose reloads ought to cost about 54 percent of wally world federal practice ammo.

My Rem 124gr JHP reloads ought to cost about 62 percent of wally world federal practice ammo.

Even full-tilt-boogie 124gr XTP HP reloads would only cost about 80 percent of wally world federal practice ammo.

[mikegideon]

Come on Mike. Post a picture of that beast you just bought.

Not really much bigger than the one it replaced...