hi point 9mm carbine vs kel tec sub 20000 9mm

[tmck]

Hi,

I am wanting to get a 9mm carbine. I have been reviewing the Kel Tec Sub 2000 9mm and the Hi Point 9mm carbine. I can get a Hi Point for about $100 less than the KT.

Thoughts and Ideas will be appreciated.

Thanks,

tmck

[Smith]

Get the Kel-Tec. A lot lighter and mags (especially hi-caps) are a lot easier to get. The Hi-Point you are stuck with 10rnd mags from Hi-point.

[Oh Shoot]

I have both. Will keep both, really like both.

Got the HP couple years ago, because didn't have a handgun that matched a Sub config. Then bought a Beretta 92, so also recently got the Sub in Beretta config (has mag release so that it'll do Sig also, but have no Sigs).

Like 'em both. A lot.

Mag capacity goes to the Sub of course. They're all sold with only 10 round mags, so they don't have to worry about the states that require that. But whatever Glock, Sig, SW, or Beretta makes will fit. Beretta makes 30 round mags, even have sleeves so that they match up with bottom of mag well nicely, have two of them, very slick indeed. And of course the Sub folds up, fits in briefcase or backpack. 'Course it's not legal to carry around on you in general any more than any other rifle.

HP is supposed to be coming out with 15 round mags, I wouldn't mess with the ProMag. All HP mags are pretty flimsy, feedlips often have to be tweaked now and then, 'bout the only reason the HP carbine ever jams.

Both have been very reliable for me so far, eat anything. Accuracy seems about the same with slight edge perhaps to the Sub, but that's so far subjective, not empirical.

My Sub came with rubber boot add on over the tube, very nice for cheek weld/shock. HP comes with either add on scope rail or full forearm rail, depending on which stock you get (I have original Planet of Apes one). Both are minute of torso from 50 to 125 yards, both are minute of paper plate at 50, and minute of tin can closer in, all with the open sights. Sub has plastic front sight post, which broke in two on mine, just got replacement, but it was still minute of torso just using the two rings with no sight post at all! You have to buy some wacko looking mount for a scope/red dot for the Sub. I think open sights are the way to go with both of them.

Both great guns, all in all, probably nod goes to the Sub, but barely. If you already have a pistola that it matches up with, big plus. Then again, if you have a HP C-9, the ten round mags fit in pistol (but the 8 round pistol mags don't work in the carbine).

Sub comes apart much easier, no tool at all required.

HP will fix anything on any gun for any owner or send free parts, but Kel-Tec has gone to original owner only policy.

They are both excellent choices for urban or suburban skirmishes when SHTF . Anything else you want to know?

- OS

[BryanP]

I've owned both. I currently own a HP995 and sold my Sub2K. Ohshoot covered all the pros and cons pretty well. They're both fun to shoot, but I couldn't hit with the Sub2K worth a darn. The Hi Point is a lot more accurate in my hands, but maybe it's just me.

Hi Point:

Costs less.

Works well.

Only takes 10 round magazines.

Hi Point warranty covers you even on a used gun.

Sub2K:

Costs more.

Also works well.

Folds up for stowage.

Seems to be better built all around.

Takes hi capacity magazines.

[Guest JMB]

I have the HP 995, but interested in the Sub2000 and OhShoot may have just made up my mind!

OhShoot are you saying the Baretta Sub also uses Sig mags? I've been hunting for the Sig variety Sub and cannot find one!

That said, my 995 is a great little gun. Shoots well, I can hit steel at 150 yards with it. (haven't tried farther) I have never had a jam, FTF, FTE, nothing with the thing. Pretty darn accurate on paper out to 100 yards.

My big concern is the 10 round mags. We've started shooting carbine matches in IDPA and frankly the mag release is the problem for me, just hard to reach and release quickly without shifting the gun, which is much harder on a carbine than a handgun.

I'll get to shoot a Sub2000 9mm this weekend, so I may change my mind, but right now I'm still in the market!

[Superman]

OhShoot are you saying the Baretta Sub also uses Sig mags? I've been hunting for the Sig variety Sub and cannot find one!

If you can find a S&W or Beretta Sub2k, according to kel-tec, you can swap the mag release so that it will take sig mags. If you find a Glock model you're stuck with glock mags

[Oh Shoot]

I have the HP 995, but interested in the Sub2000 and OhShoot may have just made up my mind!

OhShoot are you saying the Baretta Sub also uses Sig mags? I've been hunting for the Sig variety Sub and cannot find one!...

Yes, apparently it is just a matter of different mag release in grip. The fellow I bought mine from had called Beretta about this and they sent him a Sig mag release, for free, which he included in the sale to me (though I don't have a Sig). Bag includes polymer release and two springs and is marked with sharpie "Sig P226".

You should probably call Kel-Tech to confirm but seems this is only diff between the Beretta and Sig versions. I guess if you had the Sig version, they'd send you a Beretta release if you wanted to switch to that.

- OS

edit: see Superman's post above mine, was typing while he posted it.

[Guest steve24]

I'm in the same boat as the OP...looking for a good 9mm carbine.

I was considering the High Point until I actually held one. To me, the HP is so crude that it looks like something that somebody made in their garage. It is just a butt-ugly gun to me.

On the other hand, I really like the looks of the Keltec Sub 2000. I like it's ability to fold up and I really like that it can accept my Glock mags. As soon as I can find one, I'm gonna grab it!

[BryanP]

OhShoot are you saying the Baretta Sub also uses Sig mags? I've been hunting for the Sig variety Sub and cannot find one!

There are two basic varieties of Sub2K. One takes Glock magazines (either 17 or 19 depending on grip length) and cannot be converted to any other kind. The other variety can be configured with a minor part swap to take magazines from Beretta 92 or Smith & Wesson 59 or Sig P226.

[graycrait]

I've had both, had some fun with each, sold them both to fellas here on the forum. They did make me want to get a 9mm AR for a time but I got over it. If a PC9 or Camp 9 fell my way I would like to try them out but am not keen on spending real money on either. I still think my 6lb AR covers and then some what any 9mm carbine can do.

Between the two subject carbines my nod goes to KT for weight, size when folded and the ability to use (in my case) Glock 9mm mags.

[lowbud]

If cheap is what you want.. get the HP. silly looking thing is a tack driver and eats just about anything (even the cheapest steel cased ammo) you can get your hands on. Hands down the best value anywhere.

[Steelharp]

This is just my personal experience with these. I had 2 HP's, one basic black, one the fancier chrome like finish. Granted, I got both of them used, but neither one of them would feed anything. They were single shot's, and I was not impressed. Stuck with only 10 rds anyway, I went to a sub.

I later found out that there was a run of the subs that the sights were so far off, they were impossible to zero. Guess what I had.

Needless to say, I have a very bad taste in my mouth for "inexpensive 9mm carbines." I went and found a Ruger PC9, and am very pleased.

[Mike.357]

I have a HP 995TS

It is really a good little rifle. Well worth the price.

While it would never be my "go to" gun it is accurate and reliable.

It feels more solid than a Sub and i think the sights are better.

[tmck]

Many thanks guys...lots of good info. I guess I am leaning to the KT Sub. Mags are not a real concern to me...I am a "Ruger Man" & my 9's are a P95 and a SR9C. That said , I do like the high cap Glock mags for the KT.

I have my name on several waiting list for the KT Sub. But, I might me interested in a good used one.

Thanks again,

tmck