Don't Talk to the Cops?

[Guest ArmaDeFuego]

So I was watching this video over on Youtube & the guy has some good points....

What do you guys think? I know he doesnt specifically mention self defense situations in the video, but if you were in a self defense shooting would you speak to the cops freely about it afterwards or would you ask to speak with your lawyer first & then tell the police what happened?

[RobertNashville]

So I was watching this video over on Youtube & the guy has some good points....

What do you guys think? I know he doesnt specifically mention self defense situations in the video, but if you were in a self defense shooting would you speak to the cops freely about it afterwards or would you ask to speak with your lawyer first & then tell the police what happened?

I'm sure most of the law enforcement officers on this site doesn't appreciate this information but I think it's absolutely true, you shouldn't talk to LEOs...if there is a problem, the courtroom is the place to address it.

[hornett22]

Agreed.

[SupaRice]

In a self defense shooting... I wouldn't obstruct their investigation, and would be cooperative.... But I wouldn't say any more than the dead guy until I got a lawyer. That's just me though.

[Guest Baron]

Its your life and your are dealing with a stranger in a uniform. They can detain you for a few minutes or a few days in holding. However, it will be the court that will administer the real punishment.

I am always respectful to officers. I appreciate the good ones and respect their authority. However, I will not offer any statements nor concede to any searches....ever. They may get upset, but they are not the ones with something to lose.

[Reservoir Dog]

I would give a rather vague statement of what happened to let the police know that I was the victim and that the shot/dead guy was the bad guy. Otherwise, all the police know is that they have one shot/dead guy, and that you shot him. If you clam up at the scene and don't tell them anything, then things may not end up the way you would like.

After my vague statement, I would then request to speak with an attorney before giving a more detailed statement.

[Oh Shoot]

All these spook stories aside, this being TN, pretty sure I'd know if it's a good shoot or not and imagine I'd give a full statement, unless I felt so shaken I didn't feel in full control of myself (doubt it, but ya never know till it happens).

- OS

[Guest WyattEarp]

So I was watching this video over on Youtube & the guy has some good points....

What do you guys think? I know he doesnt specifically mention self defense situations in the video, but if you were in a self defense shooting would you speak to the cops freely about it afterwards or would you ask to speak with your lawyer first & then tell the police what happened?

I was told in my HCP class by the instructor to inform the LEO you have or are calling an attorney, and you will not give any statements regarding the incident until your attorney is present, but to also tell him, you're willing to fully cooperate, but that you just can't say anything until your attorney is aware of the situation and is present for questioning.

Our instructor said if/when you're involved in a self-defense shooting, it will be an emotional and traumatic experience, your adrenaline will be pumping, you'll be scared and upset, and your thinking cap won't be working too well and you won't be thinking clearly, logically or rationally, and that if you say the wrong thing even though you don't mean to, it could be the difference between self-defense and sitting before a judge and a jury.

Who gives a damn what the LEO thinks. You're protected under the 5th Amendment right not to say anything that could possibly incriminate you, or that could be misconstrued and used to possibly try to incriminate you. You have the right to remain silent, the right to an attorney. You are not obligated to say anything regarding the incident, other than to give him your DL, HCP and if necessary/requested the weapon, and verify name, social security # and address, and if relevant, vehicle information. Aside from that, say NOTHING.

[TMF]

I think it's as important to be cooperative as it is to seek legal advice. There is a right way to tell an LEO that you wish to seek counsel before making any official statement. I think being standoffish with an LEO invites suspicion and could create problems later down the road. Maybe it won't get you convicted but you still might find yourself in a court room or worse (losing in the court of public opinion). My wife got me watching Investigation Discovery a lot and I've seen quite a few cases where the investigating officers went hard after someone because of their uncooperative behavior causing reasonable suspicion to turn the investigation in their direction. In the end the innocent guy walks away, but only after months or years of legal trouble. I'd rather it be wrapped up as quick as possible.

As I talked about in another post, my uncle was involved in a SD shooting in the '90s and the investigating officers cleared him real quick. He was as cooperative as he could be. I'll have to ask if he talked to a lawyer before giving a statement, but I don't think that's the route he took. It was later that the DA tried to go after him with some BS charge which took almost a year to kill, but had it not been for that his troubles were pretty much over in a matter of weeks.

[DaveTN]

Everyone has to do whatever they are ready to take responsibility for. You are going to make a statement; it’s just a matter of when. If you say you are not making a statement until you talk to an attorney, that’s fine. But having a plan to be able to do that is more important than the ammo you use or the gun you carry. I just think a lot of people posting that they aren’t saying anything until they talk to an attorney haven’t made the arrangements to be able to do that outside normal working hours.

Having been involved in many shootings investigations I know that during that time decisions are being made about my freedom and my family’s financial future. To not be prepared to be involved in that is as stupid as walking around with your finger on the trigger.

An attorney is like a gun, they are useless if you don’t immediate access to them.

[TMF]

Everyone has to do whatever they are ready to take responsibility for. You are going to make a statement; it’s just a matter of when. If you say you are not making a statement until you talk to an attorney, that’s fine. But having a plan to be able to do that is more important than the ammo you use or the gun you carry. I just think a lot of people posting that they aren’t saying anything until they talk to an attorney haven’t made the arrangements to be able to do that outside normal working hours.

Having been involved in many shootings investigations I know that during that time decisions are being made about my freedom and my family’s financial future. To not be prepared to be involved in that is as stupid as walking around with your finger on the trigger.

An attorney is like a gun, they are useless if you don’t immediate access to them.

Having inside knowledge, in your opinion would the average investigator raise an eyebrow that someone involved in an SD shooting had an attorney on call for just such an occasion? I'm just thinking that making prior arrangements would suggest premeditation, intent or being predisposed to use deadly force.

[dlm37015]

they dont ask a policeman for a statement until his attorney is present if its good enough for them its good enough for me

[Guest nysos]

Make sure you call the police first, you want to be the first 911 call if the other guy is wounded/runs away - make sure they know you are the victim. It looks really bad if you wait around 10-15 minutes to call 911 and the other guy has already called saying YOU are the bad guy and he is the victim. Soon as you get off the phone with 911 contact a lawyer.

When police arrive: "I was scared for my life" , "I thought he was going to kill me", "I am willing to cooperate in the investigation, but I do not want to give any statements until I have legal counsel present"

Point out evidence, point out any witnesses - aside from that, don't offer up any statements as to detailed information of what happened leading up to the event. The worst thing you can do is to say absolutely nothing, evidence could be overlooked if the person you had to shoot/shoot at ditched their weapon and the investigating officers overlook it.

Massad Ayoob also suggest stating that you want to file a complaint against the other person (assuming they are just wounded/ran off).

[Stegall Law Firm]

While I generally advise talking to an attorney before anyone else, the law in Tennessee is pretty cut and dried on self defense. Like Oh Shoot said, if it's justified you'll know it and the police will too pretty quick when they get there.

As long as you didn't pull a Harry Coleman or hit an innocent person, you'll be fine. If you're really riled up, ask to be taken to the hospital so they can check you out. If not, go home (if you're out), have a shot of whiskey, try and get some sleep, and call me in the morning. Don't call a lawyer at 3 am. There's nothing they can do for you then that they couldn't do the next day.

[RobertNashville]

I would give a rather vague statement of what happened to let the police know that I was the victim and that the shot/dead guy was the bad guy. Otherwise, all the police know is that they have one shot/dead guy, and that you shot him. If you clam up at the scene and don't tell them anything, then things may not end up the way you would like.

After my vague statement, I would then request to speak with an attorney before giving a more detailed statement.

"I was in fear for my life and I defended myself...I don't mean to be uncooperative but I don't want to say anything else until my attorney is present" - that statement should be good enough for any LEO investigating a homicide and I suspect the good officers will know and respect that.

[billyscott]

What if you are involved in a SD shooting and no criminal charges are brought against you? Then the bad guy or his family brings civil charges against you. Can what you said to the officer investigating the shooting be brought up in court?

[Volzfan]

All these spook stories aside, this being TN, pretty sure I'd know if it's a good shoot or not and imagine I'd give a full statement, unless I felt so shaken I didn't feel in full control of myself (doubt it, but ya never know till it happens).

- OS

I certainly hope that I never have to go thru this but I agree with OS. I heard someone say that you should tell the officers on the scene that you need to be checked out at the hospital which will give you time to settle yourself down before saying something that you will regret later.

[RobertNashville]

What if you are involved in a SD shooting and no criminal charges are brought against you? Then the bad guy or his family brings civil charges against you. Can what you said to the officer investigating the shooting be brought up in court?

I may be mistaken on the exact specifics but in Tennessee, I believe that if the shooting is ruled to be justified then you have an affirmative defense (per TN law) against any lawsuit from the person shot or his family...I don't believe that can "prevent" you from being sued but it does render a suit a relative waste of time.

[TMF]

I may be mistaken on the exact specifics but in Tennessee, I believe that if the shooting is ruled to be justified then you have an affirmative defense (per TN law) against any lawsuit from the person shot or his family...I don't believe that can "prevent" you from being sued but it does render a suit a relative waste of time.

The estate of the deceased better be ready for a suit for damages to the property and cost of ammo.

[Fallguy]

What if you are involved in a SD shooting and no criminal charges are brought against you? Then the bad guy or his family brings civil charges against you. Can what you said to the officer investigating the shooting be brought up in court?

I would think the report the officers files is a public record and they could get a copy of it easily. Whether it is admitted or not would be up to the judge.

[JWKilgore]

Pretty much what my HCP instructor said, and he's a cop (or maybe retired... I wasn't clear on that). He also said that the decision to shoot should be made after answering the question of whether what you're defending is worth selling everything you own to cover legal fees for the resulting civil lawsuit. Even the worst meth-addicted bad guy may have a grieving mother/wife/brother who may decide that it'll take a few hundred thousand dollars to end their anguish.

That being said, how would I go about getting the names of a few lawyers in the Chattanooga area who are pro-carry? Sorry, Mr. Stegall, Memphis is too far away.

[Oh Shoot]

I certainly hope that I never have to go thru this but I agree with OS. I heard someone say that you should tell the officers on the scene that you need to be checked out at the hospital which will give you time to settle yourself down before saying something that you will regret later.

Well, I wouldn't do that unless I really felt that I physically needed it (heart still racing to point of blowout, dizzy whatever). If I mentally/emotionally didn't feel up to snuff to give a clear account, I'd just do the "wait till I get with a mouthpiece" thing.

Certainly don't know for sure how I'd react since I've never shot anyone, but a biker basically committed suicide by FedEx with me about 4 years ago -- got up close and personal with the body to check him out, etc.

It was most certainly a disturbing experience, but not traumatic to the point where I never felt in complete control of myself. And even though that's a situation where you figure the family would sue you automatically no matter what, I went ahead and gave a complete statement rather than ask for a personal or Fedex lawyer first. Just told the truth, and wasn't charged, fired, or sued.

One thing about telling the truth -- you don't have to remember the details of a lie.

- OS

Edited December 14, 2011 by OhShoot

[Guest nicemac]

Well, I wouldn't do that unless I really felt that I physically needed it (heart still racing to point of blowout, dizzy whatever). If I mentally/emotionally didn't feel up to snuff to give a clear account, I'd just do the "wait till I get with a mouthpiece" thing.

Certainly don't know for sure how I'd react since I've never shot anyone, but a biker basically committed suicide by FedEx with me about 4 years ago -- got up close and personal with the body to check him out, etc.

It was most certainly a disturbing experience, but not traumatic to the point where I never felt in complete control of myself. And even though that's a situation where you figure the family would sue you automatically no matter what, I went ahead and gave a complete statement rather than ask for a personal or Fedex lawyer first. Just told the truth, and wasn't charged, fired, or sued.

One thing about telling the truth -- you don't have to remember the details of a lie.

- OS

The instructor in my HCP class suggested requesting to go to the hospital as well. He indicated it was a very effective method of shutting questioning down until you can calm down and talk with an attorney (if you chose). This gives you some time to think rationally before making a statement.

[Oh Shoot]

The instructor in my HCP class suggested requesting to go to the hospital as well. He indicated it was a very effective method of shutting questioning down until you can calm down and talk with an attorney (if you chose). This gives you some time to think rationally before making a statement.

Yeah, they "all" say that. .45 has more knock down power, too.

- OS

[peejman]

This is a good book that addresses how to handle it.... http://www.amazon.com/Lessons-Armed-America-Kathy-Jackson/dp/1453685553/ref=pd_sim_b_2

And this is essentially what it says to do.

"I was in fear for my life and I defended myself...I don't mean to be uncooperative but I don't want to say anything else until my attorney is present" - that statement should be good enough for any LEO investigating a homicide and I suspect the good officers will know and respect that.

Adrenalin is a very powerful thing that can alter your perception of how things happened. While TN law is pretty clear, it's best to say as little as possible until you've settled down.

What if you are involved in a SD shooting and no criminal charges are brought against you? Then the bad guy or his family brings civil charges against you. Can what you said to the officer investigating the shooting be brought up in court?

I believe so. Hence the preference to keep your mouth shut.