Return of my P-3AT to Keltec

[BPE]

Guys,

I'm getting ready to contact Keltec as I'm finally fed up dealing with my P-3AT woes. The gun just doesn't function as it should. Jams and other various issues with the gun have permanently benched it on the sidelines as it cannot be trusted. Where I'm disgusted with the purchase I made a year or more ago, I'm not willing to sell the gun as I don't feel it fair to sale a gun that doesn't function properly. And it's not worth much, so the loss taken in sale would be worse than just hanging on to it. I feel that my particular issues are indicative of the design as I've talked to individuals with similar issues. Most have been resolved by a trip back to the factory, to which I hope I may have the same experience.

In lies the question, though. I've read numerous times throughout TGO certain terms used to describe the order of operations for a handgun's operation and am not sure I quite understand them all. Often times I will see the term or phrase "return to battery" and think I have a grasp on what it means just to find myself wondering if my assumption is correct. That being said, I would like to explain to Keltec, in detail, the issue I'm having with my gun, using proper terminology, without pointing them in the wrong direction by my misuse of terms and phrases that I think I understand.

So as to not be vague, my problems with the weapon are when the slide comes back to the furthest position to chamber a round it will hang for a moment and feel sticky. It's almost as if it is catching a burr in the metal somewhere on the slide, although I've inspected it and haven't found any such issue. For those unfamiliar with this gun, it does not have a slide lock. When the slide moves forward and comes in contact with the round in the magazine to put it into the chamber it again hesitates but not as bad, almost as if the spring the magazine is pushing the round upwards too tight. After rounds are removed from the magazine and if you are manually working the slide, the delay in chambering a round gets marginally better.

When firing, if the magazine is full the gun seems to operate as expected for the first 2-3 rounds. After this, it is almost certain that a round will get stuck in the chamber or not be ejected in time and the next round comes up and hangs behind the empty casing still lodged in the gun. This additional force applied with the new round further lodges the empty casing into the chamber and sometimes results in a field strip to get it properly removed. For a gun that only holds 6+1, this failure rate is astounding (to me) for after it jams this way one time it is game over - it is just going to jam all day long.

I've tried everything I know to prevent this from happening. Different ammo. Different and tighter grip. Holding my tongue to the right instead of the left. Different trigger pulls - meaning to pull and release quickly or pull and hold the trigger for a moment longer and various other things to see if I was the one causing the issue.

You see in my explanation above I did detail out what I feel is wrong with the weapon but in a way that a 7 year old child may explain the workings of internal combustion to GM or Ford. Could you assist me in finding the proper terminology and phrasing that describes what I'm explaining to not only assist me in my dialog with Keltec but also my own personal knowledge and experience? More over I would take the experience and knowledge gained from such education more seriously than my communication with Keltec. I would like to learn this information properly so I can better communicate with people I come in contact with from time to time. Thanks.

[kwe45919]

I would try different magazines as well before i sent it back. Seems like you've tried everything but different mags.....if that doesn't work, send it back.

No need to worry about trying to explain things properly as I'm sure they've received a call from Bubba explaining the "thingy gets stuck and when I slap'er forward she gets more stuck. What do I do?".....

[Jonnin]

kel tec has good service -- rebuilt my p-40 from the ground up and has helped me with questions on my plr. I sold the p-40 but it worked, I just do not like DAO triggers. All that aside, in the process I found the KTOG and recommend you ask there as well. There are sections on things you can do to fix it yourself, as well as experts who can help. KTOG.Org - Kel-Tec Owners Group is the site. Return to battery is an odd term left over from very old military guns (big stuff, I think, like ship's guns?) but it means the round get pushed into the barrel properly and fully. Most small arms will not fire out of battery -- this is dangerous as the brass can rupture and stuff, so safetys prevent it. Try a second magazine and try storing your mag with 6 in it for a couple of weeks, and you might also try cleaning the magazine (take it apart) and checking the lips (top of the mag that the bullets slide against as they are removed) for rough spots or abnormal shape/feel/etc. I dunno about the sticky slide, but there is something in this gun called the frankenbolt that gets loose and causes all sorts of odd problems and this sounds like a good case of needing to check that bolt and locktite it back in place if its loose.

[Dolomite_supafly]

+1 to the customer service of KelTec being great. The gun doesn't need to go through a FFL to be returned and the gun will be shipped back to your address, again with no need for an FFL to be part of it.

I called them about getting a replacement plastic guide rod. They sent me three with the recoil springs for free. They have been very helpful and willing to answer my, sometimes crazy, questions.

Does this malfunction happen with everyone who shoots it?

The reason I ask is most compact pistols are very sensitive to limp wristing. Not trying to say you limp wrist but it can be hard to hang onto these super small, super light pistols. I know with my wife's PF-9 there have been a few shooters who have malfunctions related to limp wristing. I wish it didn;t happen but it is the nature of the beast with smaller guns that fire a hot caliber for thier size like most of the Keltec offerings.

I would definitely be intersted in hearing what Keltec has to say about this. If for nothign else but to help others who have the same issue.

Dolomite

[Karnage]

I had to send my P3AT back to KelTec a couple of years ago. It had a problem with sporadic extraction of spent cases from the chamber. When they returned it the only parts that were not brand new were the barrel and the internal frame. Their customer service made me a happy customer.

[MphsTiger1981]

I have owned several of the little Kel-Tec pistols and I also echo what the previous posters all say about their customer service. I've had several that were good to go out of the box, some needed tweaking with parts mailed to my home from the factory (what other gun manufacturer will do that these days?).

As suggested above, KTOG is a great place to start and go to the P3AT sub-forums and read some of the current threads and perhaps do a search on "failure to extract". What Jonnin suggested also will help and that is if yours has the hex head bolt on the right side of the slide, double check to make sure its good and tight. That bolt holds in the firing pin, the extractor spring and extractor, so if it is loose, it can reek havoc on the reliability of the small guns. Have you ever done a "fluff and buff" on the gun? If not, how many rounds do you think you have in it?

If all else fails, before you mail it in to them, why not pick up the phone and talk to the folks in Customer Service? They are very friendly and very familiar with the guns. I doubt you've got a problem they've never heard of, or run into before. Don't give up on the gun. They are really pretty good for what they were designed to be, a small very concealable, get off of me pistol. I've had really good luck with them and would not hesitate to buy another. Many folks swear by them, and some swear at them. Hope you become one of the former. Good luck.

[LagerHead]

I'll second what Dolomite says about limp wristing compacts. Even the angle of the wrist can affect the reliability of the gun as my wife found out this weekend. She was firing her XD9SC and even with a death grip would get stovepipes where I would get none. But her wrist was not in a straight line with the gun and it was almost undoubtedly causing her issues.

[TNWNGR]

Line up a couple of your friend's and go to the range with the P3AT, clean and lube it then run 100-200 round's through it. If any of them have a P3AT or Ruger LCP have them bring their magazines, mark each magazine with a grease pen and start shooting. This way you rule out the magazine and human side of the issue. If you do send it back to KT go ahead and spend the money to have the slide nickled, this help's a lot in the long run. You should end up with a decent pocket pistol because KT customer service is really good.

[Guest steve24]

I would just tell them that you're having a "failure to extract" issue. That just means that the extractor is not removing the spent casing out of the chamber. It also sounds to me like your feed-ramp needs polishing to allow the nose of the bullet to slide freely up it and into the chamber. That might explain why the slide feels sticky...

That being said, I had to return my P3AT to the factory because of a "failure to extract" issue. My spent casings would "stovepipe" and not allow the slide to chamber the next round. They replaced my barrel and slide, and it has worked perfectly ever since. As some of the other posters have said, they do have awesome customer service.

Good luck!

[BPE]

Thanks everyone. I will try some more research given the new source of information and give them a ring as well. I've always heard of their great customer service, just finally ready to put it to the test.

I do understand that some of my frustration is to blame on my own act of benching the gun and expecting different results each time I put it back in service.

What do they say the definition of insanity is? Doing the same action repeatedly and expecting different results? I think that's it.

Where I'm not 100% that it is not a limp wrist issue I've tried all recommended steps as well as having 4 others fire it, all with the same result.

I'll let you know what turns up. I'd like to have this back in my carry line when summer comes back around. It does fit perfectly in a pocket with a holster.

[peejman]

I think mine had the same problem as yours. It wouldn't fully extract the spent case because the extractor would pop off the case rim with it about 3/4 out of the chamber. Then when the slide came back forward, it would jam the next round into the case.

From what you describe, check your "frankenbolt" to make sure it's snug. It's the bolt at the top/rear of the slide that holds the extractor and firing pin in place (1/8" allen wrench, IIRC). Less than 1/4 turn (followed by a dab of blue loctite) fixed mine.

If the frankenbolt is tight, try a new extractor. They changed the design slightly at some point. You can get one direct from Keltec cheap. If you call, they'll probably send you one for free.