Ejector Dents

[Guest]

Hello,

I am still tossing around the idea of making my own ammo (instead of buying) and then reloading what I make. I'd be using once-fired brass to begin with, so really just reloading all the way around.

The .223 brass I've found for about 5c each says it is "dirty" and may have "nicks/ejector dents" in the side of the case. Any issues or red flags with this?

Anyone have any specific recommendations for a decent tumbler with good capacity, but sticking to a budget? lots of choices...

With 9mm it seems a pretty straighforward process with something like a Lee 1000 and the case/bullet feeders.

Then to do .223, I realize there is the extra step of trimming and chamfering the cases. What is the best/fastest way to do this, without totally blowing the bank?

Any anyone have a good source for M193 or 855 less than around 9c a rd? Same for 9mm HP, cheapest I've found is around 9c.

[leroy]

Bless:____________

Dont worry about the "dents" in the 223. They wont hurt anything. RE: tumblers. Keep watchin and buy a good sized one (...one about a gallon in size....) that is on sale. I've got an old lyman that looks like a pumpkin. The dillon tumblers are good too. I would watch all the reloading supply house sale fliers. My guess is that a vibratory tumbler from lyman, rcbs, hornady, dillon, etc are all pretty good stuff. By the way, bigger is better here. Dont skimp on size.

By the way, i bought 1000 hornady 55 grain fmj-bt bullets from midway the other day for about $77. They are highly thought of by lots of AR shooters. Watch for sales from midway, graf and sons, and our buddies at widners.

Hope this helps a bit.

leroy

Hope thi

Edited December 12, 2011 by leroy

[Dolomite_supafly]

How are you planning on loading the 223?

I would really consider getting a single stage to start with. I use a Lee Classic Cast with the Hornady Lock-N-Load conversion. Makes for a very easy to change setup. Basically you set your dies once and you never have to touch them again.

As far as trimming Lee's trimmer is about the simplest you are going to find. I mounted the trimmer, inside chamfer, outside chamfer and a neck brush onto a sinlge piece of aluminum U channel. I hold the channel then spin the case with a drill going between each one. Works like a champ and is quick.

You will need to clean your brass before sizing or you will ruin your dies. A small rock or piece of sand can scratch the insdie of your die. After that every case you do will have a scratch down the side.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

What Leroy said about the dings. They'll go away as soon as you shoot them. In fact, the sizing die will take a lot of it out when you reload. i cut the ejector spring in one of my AR's, and it doesn't ding brass anymore. I wouldn't do that with a normal AR, but I shoot Lapua brass in it.

[Guest]

Thanks for the info guys. I googled trimming some more, and it looks like even for a few guys that added motors to their trimmer, 15 seconds a case would be blazing fast. That means 4+ hours of nothing but trimming. Correct me if I'm wrong. But that takes a lot of the appeal out of the savings, when added onto the time to actually re-load. As they say, time is money, and if I net out saving $5.00 an hr, really it doesn't make so much sense (to me) to reload. I guess I'll do more research... as I'm still a total newbie to this process.

[mikegideon]

Trimming sucks. This is on my list. Does it all in one pass... fast

Match Prep, Home of the Gracey Power Carrtidge Case Trimmer

[Dave Shooter]

Thanks for the info guys. I googled trimming some more, and it looks like even for a few guys that added motors to their trimmer, 15 seconds a case would be blazing fast. That means 4+ hours of nothing but trimming. Correct me if I'm wrong. But that takes a lot of the appeal out of the savings, when added onto the time to actually re-load. As they say, time is money, and if I net out saving $5.00 an hr, really it doesn't make so much sense (to me) to reload. I guess I'll do more research... as I'm still a total newbie to this process.

Starting with loading just straight walled pistol will simplify things and allow you to learn while producing usable ammo in usable amounts without some of the complications of loading rifle. If you find you like it and want to take on loading 223 you'll have most of the equipment you need and just need a few more items and procedures.

Note that you don't have to trim every 223 case. You do HAVE to ensure every 223 case is short enough; overly long cases will either not chamber or jam into the throat and pin the bullet, retarding it from moving forward on firing and jacking pressures up.

Setting 223 dies to give proper headspace is the other significant complication with loading it. If using a single stage press you just follow the die makers instructions. If using a progressive then some type of gauge is in order. Like porriage, you can have too much or too little, you want the just right range of sizing.

Good Luck!

[Guest nicemac]

Yes, trimming used to be a chore.

I just bought the Giraud trimmer last week. Takes two seconds per case. Works just like a pencil sharpener. Trims, deburs and chamfers in one step–and every case is identical in length. Lifetime warranty. I can't believe the hours I spent doing it manually. And they still weren't consistent.

[mikegideon]

Yes, trimming used to be a chore.

I just bought the Giraud trimmer last week. Takes two seconds per case. Works just like a pencil sharpener. Trims, deburs and chamfers in one step–and every case is identical in length. Lifetime warranty. I can't believe the hours I spent doing it manually. And they still weren't consistent.

Consistency is it for me. I have little doubt that I'll get a Giraud trimmer when budget permits. For now, I'll probably slap a Gracey together on the cheap. I always get the cheap stuff first so I can throw it in my reject box . When the box gets full, I'll sell it all on TGO for less than I paid for it. I like to think I'm an optimist. Some folks may think I'm a dumbass .

A lot of guys use the Gracey, because it's been around longer. I know I'll get more consistent cases with it than with my current Hornady setup.

[mikegideon]

How are you planning on loading the 223?

I would really consider getting a single stage to start with. I use a Lee Classic Cast with the Hornady Lock-N-Load conversion. Makes for a very easy to change setup. Basically you set your dies once and you never have to touch them again.

As far as trimming Lee's trimmer is about the simplest you are going to find. I mounted the trimmer, inside chamfer, outside chamfer and a neck brush onto a sinlge piece of aluminum U channel. I hold the channel then spin the case with a drill going between each one. Works like a champ and is quick.

You will need to clean your brass before sizing or you will ruin your dies. A small rock or piece of sand can scratch the insdie of your die. After that every case you do will have a scratch down the side.

Dolomite

I used the Classic Cast with Lee's Breechlock system. It worked well, until the press wound up in the box. The absolute best die swapping scheme is on the Forster press. It's literally a 2 second deal.

[Guest nicemac]

Consistency is it for me. I have little doubt that I'll get a Giraud trimmer when budget permits. For now, I'll probably slap a Gracey together on the cheap. I always get the cheap stuff first so I can throw it in my reject box . When the box gets full, I'll sell it all on TGO for less than I paid for it. I like to think I'm an optimist. Some folks may think I'm a dumbass .

A lot of guys use the Gracey, because it's been around longer. I know I'll get more consistent cases with it than with my current Hornady setup.

I have several things that I bought, used for a while, and then replaced them with what I really should have bought to begin with. It always wound up costing me a lot more in the long run. These days, I save for the thing I really want and wait until I can afford it. It just costs too much to replace tools–you never get your money back out of the lesser-quality piece.

I thought long and hard about buying a Gracey. The price is compelling. I did a lot of interwebz research. The first modification most people make to the Gracey is to replace the cutters with carbide cutters from Giraud… Hmmm. Then they add a switch. More $$. The Gracey motor only turns 1500 rpm, so they put a new (3,000rpm) motor on it. When they are finished, they have as big an investment in it (or more) than if they just bought a Giraud to begin with–and it is still ugly, and bolted to a board. If you look at them side by side, there is just no comparison in build quality between the two.

The Giraud has been around quite a while (since 1999) as well. The upgrade kits (motor, on/off switch, carbide blades) for the Gracey Trimmer:

Motor Upgrades for Gracey Trimmers

Edited December 21, 2011 by nicemac

[mikegideon]

I have several things that I bought, used for a while, and then replaced them with what I really should have bought to begin with. It always wound up costing me a lot more in the long run. These days, I save for the thing I really want and wait until I can afford it. It just costs too much to replace tools–you never get your money back out of the lesser-quality piece.

I thought long and hard about buying a Gracey. The price is compelling. I did a lot of interwebz research. The first modification most people make to the Gracey is to replace the cutters with carbide cutters from Giraud… Hmmm. Then they add a switch. More $$. The Garcey motor only turns 1500 rpm, so they put a new (3,000rpm) motor on it. When they are finished, they have as big an investment in it (or more) than if they just bought a Giraud to begin with–and it is still ugly, and bolted to a board. If you look at them side by side, there is just no comparison in build quality between the two.

The Giraud has been around quite a while (since 1999) as well. The upgrade kits (motor, on/off switch, carbide blades) for the Gracey Trimmer:

Motor Upgrades for Gracey Trimmers

Yep. I did the same research. Bear in mind that I'm not doing high volume. I may do the carbide blade replacement, but not from Giraud. This is the guy...

http://www.bjonessights.com/CARBIDE.html

The switch is cheap and easy. You are absolutely right on all your points. Right now, I'm just trying to get my ammo to a certain place, and have spent a lot of money to do it. Waiting on funds isn't my best option right now.

[Dolomite_supafly]

Here is my setup. It is cheap and works really well:

L-R:

Lee Case Trimmer

Outside Chamfer

Inside Chamfer

Flash Hole Uniformer

And up front is a 223 case in a Lee holder for the Case Trimmer.

I drilled and then taped the holes in the "U" channel for 8-32 screws. Then screwed the tools into those holes. I can easily replace the rod in the trimmer for different calibers as well as adjust the flash hole uniformer.

When I am working my cases I go from left to right and then back again. If they are cases that have already had their flash holes uniformed I put a brass bore bruss in place of the uniformer to clean the necks. It takes me 10-15 seconds per case to complete them. And another 5-10 seconds to swap cases. So each case is done in 30 seconds or less.

I can also mount it but I generally just old it in my left hand and have a small lightweight electric screwdriver in my right hand. Using a electric screw driver rather than a electric drill makes it easier to see a problem coming before it becomes a problem. When I used to use a drill it would sometimes get away from me and take too much off with the chamfers, ruining the case.

As far as sizing cases go it depends on the setup but most sizing dies require that they be bottomed out on the shell holder to properly size the cases. I know it is required with straight walled pistol cases. With rifle calibers I seperate the sizing steps. First I size the body then I size the neck. This keeps the brass from work hardening and helps it last a lot longer. The rifle sizing dies that do it in one step are the worst for work hardening the brass. Back when I used them I rarely got more than 4 loadings out of a piece of brass without either getting cracks or having to anneal. Since I seperated the steps I am getting a lot more. One some of my brass I am well over 10 loadings with no signs of cracks or problems.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

That's a pretty slick setup. You're still relying on feel for your chamfer depths. I'm not good enough to keep that consistent. I plan to build my Gracey out of parts. Nothing says that it HAS to have a wood base. I'm thinking thick aluminum plate milled by Uncle Gordon's machine shop. I'll send drawings when I get the parts. I don't have the tools for metal, but have had quite a bit of machine tolerance stuff made. I do good drawings

Edited December 21, 2011 by mikegideon