campgrounds?

[rustyshakelford]

Hello all,got a question for ya,i know campgrounds say no firearms...but a camper is considered a residence.....so although carrying in the campground is not allowed,what about one that stays in the camper? legal? thx..have fun,be safe

[rustyshakelford]

i forgot to mention it is a coe campground (defeated creek)...i have been trying to find a definite answer but all i get is a definite maybe..... anyone know a number i could call or any info? thx have fun,be safe

[Oh Shoot]

Well, I see you never got a response, and mine won't be much help either I'm afraid.

Reason is, COE and TVA property is really gray, as it's not specifically mentioned one way or the other, but doesn't exactly fit in other classifications of places legal to carry or legal to post not to, like private businesses. I think someone mentioned that there was something afoot to tweak TCA to include COE lands in verbiage about WMAs where it is legal to carry now, but never heard any more about it.

You never really hear any press about folks being arrested on either type property for handgun carry, so I'd posit it's not likely they conduct searches or anything. Just a comment, not advice.

- OS

Edited December 12, 2011 by OhShoot

[Pain103]

A camper isn't considered a residence unless permanently affixed.

[busted knuckles]

Park rules up there state "no firearms". I asked one of the Smith County deputy's patrolling through there one day about it and he told me that as long as he didn't see it, he wouldn't know it was there. I carry concealed when up there.

[JAB]

A camper isn't considered a residence unless permanently affixed.

Are you sure about that? From the Tennessee Code Annotated section on Self Defense (only the relevant portions posted):

39-11-611. Self-defense.

(a) As used in this section, unless the context otherwise requires:

(3) "Dwelling" means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether the building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, that has a roof over it, including a tent, and is designed for or capable of use by people;

(4) "Residence" means a dwelling in which a person resides, either temporarily or permanently, or is visiting as an invited guest, or any dwelling, building or other appurtenance within the curtilage of the residence...

Note that the provided definition of 'residence' is a dwelling in which a person resides either temporarily or permanently . Further notice that a 'dwelling' can be either temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile as long as it has a roof and that even a tent can be considered a 'dwelling' and, therefore, a residence - albeit a temporary one.

Of course, this is 'residence' as it impacts the assumption that a person is in fear of their life in a self defense situation and not specifically related to where one can or cannot legally have a firearm. It would seem odd, however, if something that meets the legal requirements for being a 'residence' in terms of self defense would not meet that requirement in a broader sense. Then, again, I guess the law is full of oddities that make little sense.

Edited December 12, 2011 by JAB

[rustyshakelford]

Thx jab..i thought i was correct in thinking a camper was considered a residence.......but either way there is no clean cut answer.....and of course there's the if it isn't seen ......... thx for all the responses guys....have fun,be safe

[Pain103]

Not saying it wouldn't considered a residence for the sake of self defense but it has wheels and is easily mobile unless permanent it falls under the exemption for automobiles for a search with only probable cause and no search warrant. At least that's how it was back when I went through interdiction school. The only reason I bring that up is since we probably don't have any case law, that I personally know of, in regards to firearm possession inside a mobile camper where such camper may be in a posted property. I'm just throwing that out there for you but realistically you would probably be good. I also am not familiar with the land so it may not even be an issue to start with.

I could be wrong and hopefully I am because I would hate for somebody to be the test case and lose their HCP for something silly.

[Fallguy]

Not saying it wouldn't considered a residence for the sake of self defense but it has wheels and is easily mobile unless permanent it falls under the exemption for automobiles for a search with only probable cause and no search warrant. At least that's how it was back when I went through interdiction school. The only reason I bring that up is since we probably don't have any case law, that I personally know of, in regards to firearm possession inside a mobile camper where such camper may be in a posted property. I'm just throwing that out there for you but realistically you would probably be good. I also am not familiar with the land so it may not even be an issue to start with.

I could be wrong and hopefully I am because I would hate for somebody to be the test case and lose their HCP for something silly.

Good point.... A car is just like your house as far as self-defense goes, but we know you can't have loaded firearm in your car without a HCP...

[JAB]

Good point.... A car is just like your house as far as self-defense goes, but we know you can't have loaded firearm in your car without a HCP...

True, but unlike a car the section I posted doesn't say that the described dwellings (including a tent) are considered to be 'like' residences. Instead, that section says that those dwellings are residences.

Heck, I wouldn't doubt that there is some screwy quirk whereby the camper is considered a 'vehicle' while you are underway but a 'residence' while you are using it as a 'living' space. I could see that being especially true in the case of a pull-behind camper that is unhooked from the tow vehicle as it is not self-mobile any more than a mobile home would be. This is, of course, all conjecture and represents me thinking out loud for the sake of discussion - it is not intended as advice, legal or otherwise.

Edited December 13, 2011 by JAB

[Fallguy]

True, but the section I posted doesn't say that the described dwellings (including a tent) are 'like' residences. Instead, that section says that those dwellings are residences.

The very first part of the section you posted says..."As use in this section.." Which to me means these definitions do not apply all across the code, but only to this section. So the would not necessarly apply to what is considered a residence for the purpose of 39-17-1308

Heck, I wouldn't doubt that there is some screwy quirk whereby the camper is considered a 'vehicle' while you are underway but a 'residence' while you are using it as a 'living' space. I may be mistaken but isn't that pretty much the situation with a semi that has an attached sleeper?

Nothing in the TCA really surpises me...lol

[rustyshakelford]

LOL!! i think fallguy says it best.......Nothing in the TCA really surpises me...lol...but i thought to be consisdered a residence it ...in case of a tow behind..it not be hooked to a tow vehicle... i read that on a site a while ago that i thought was a lawyers site but i can't be for sure.......glad i could get this bees nest buzzing again thx guys...have fun,be safe