AD/ND Statistics

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

I have read alot of internet information that there are alot of ND/AD's in particular involving Glocks.

I agree there are some quirks involving Glock pistols that can lead to ND/AD's (in particular having to fire the gun to disassemble it) but I have never acutally seen any studies done on the rate of ND/AD's per handgun sold with it broken down by brand.

That would be some very interesting information to see. Even some information that would show the number of accidents on a yearly basis as a function of the total number of handguns.

Based on the FBI statistics the number of accidental deaths has gone down over that last 50 years. It would be very interesting to see if there is a correlation with brands.

If anyone can direct me towards that it would be appreciated.

[DaveTN]

I doubt you will find any information like that is documented. It would require that all information be in all Police reports and then someone would have to go through and build a data base on accidental or negligent discharges.

Just do some checking every time you hear of an AD or ND. It will be the same name most of the time.

[molonlabetn]

to get an accurate rate of AD/ND, one would have to document every time all guns were handled while loaded and compare that to the number of AD/NDs.

It's simply not possible to turn into a science... all discussion along this line is speculation with regard to the observed trends.

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

I agree. It probably will.

But is it 1,000/1,000,000 of Glocks @ 0.1%

or 100/10,000 of Brand A which would be 1%?

I'm a data man, until I see the data all I will say is that if you disassemble your Glock you better check the chamber twice and point it at something you don't like.

I guarantee you there are alot more AD/ND with Glock than the Japanese Type 94 pistol from WWII but I don't think anyone could say that the Type 94 is a better designed pistol.

(That is the one that has an exposed sear bar that will fire if you hit the bar without holding the trigger, safety on or not.)

[deerslayer]

I doubt you will find any information like that is documented. It would require that all information be in all Police reports and then someone would have to go through and build a data base on accidental or negligent discharges.

Just do some checking every time you hear of an AD or ND. It will be the same name most of the time.

The last three NDs I heard of were XD, SIG, and M&P in that order. Three designs which I would feel perfectly safe carrying, BTW.

[molonlabetn]

The data just isn't there...

But I would encourage you to look at the pistols which were entered and either failed or passed gov't/military trials.

The winners are Sig, H&K and Beretta

Glock was a notable 'non-winner', in all but the FBI trials.

I'll leave you to do your own research, there's plenty posted on this site and others.

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

The only AD/ND that I have ever had was with a S&W 629 that I had thumb cocked. It had a very like SA trigger and it went off while I was lowering it on target. It scared the begeezus out of me. My hand was shaking so hard after that I just gave up for the day.

There was a guy I met at a football party once that had an interesting scar on his foot. I asked him where he got it from, he told me it was from trying to lower a hammer on a 1911 with cartridge in the chamber. His finger slipped. It was a very interesting looking scar.

[Guest mtsusean]

Hundreds if not thousands of ND's with 92F's the last five years as well as M4's in Afghanistan and Iraq. Coincidentally, (or not) they all happen at clearing barrels.

Negligent is exactly what it is, not accidental. It is impossible to have a ND if you follow the directions. Home or abroad.

AD's on the other hand are few and far between; pure equipment failures causing a round to discharge is how I would categorize an AD.

ND's happen because you are a dumbass.

[Guest price g]

The majority of AD's while I was SOing have been 1911s. I do not think it is fair to say that Glocks have more ADs. The data will show that their are 25 Glocks sold to 1 of brand b. You would also have to decide if the AD was human error or mechanical failure.You have an arduous task in front of you. Good luck and may the force be with you.

[DaveTN]

to get an accurate rate of AD/ND, one would have to document every time all guns were handled while loaded and compare that to the number of AD/NDs.

It's simply not possible to turn into a science... all discussion along this line is speculation with regard to the observed trends.

This guy could do it his garage with nothing more than a blackboard.

[Guest bigbuck_tn]

Hey, where did you get that picture of me?

[deerslayer]

The majority of AD's while I was SOing have been 1911s. I do not think it is fair to say that Glocks have more ADs. The data will show that their are 25 Glocks sold to 1 of brand b.

Mars says that line of reasoning is baloney and he's NEVER wrong.

[Guest price g]

Lets see how right he is with a buzzer in his ear

[deerslayer]

LOL, the buzzer has exposed many an "expert."

[Guest jackdog]

Nd's will most always fall back on the operator of the weapon, plain and simple. You can blame gun design all you want or brand but it still falls back on the operator. Not knowing or following the manual of arms usually is the cause. I check every one of my weapons 3 times to be sure they are clear. If I handle a firearm, even in a gun shop I do the same thing. Guns go bang, because some one pulls the trigger or lets some thing ( clothing or other object get to the trigger). Never have heard of a gun standing up on it's little gun footies and pulling the trigger with it's little gun trigger finger.

[molonlabetn]

Numerous safeties on guns are akin to to the operations needed to get a vehicle in motion.

Safety 1: Keyed ignition

Safety 2: Shifter

Safety 3: Parking brake

Trigger: Accelerator pedal/clutch

Some people still drive their cars into fixed objects unintentionally, and some people fail to get their vehicle moving when needed, because one of the 'safeties' was on.

Still, if there was a vehicle which required no key to be inserted and turned, no parking brake to be disengaged, and no actuation of the shifter before pressing the gas to get in motion, it's not difficult to fathom that the people who were careless with the more complicated controls will be even more likely to unintentionally put the car in motion when it's so much easier to activate (ie, getting in/out of the car foot hits the pedal and crash through the garage door).

Of course it's a training and awareness issue... but we're talking about humans here

[strickj]

Well so far I read that there 25 Glocks sold to every 1 of X,and that ad's are usually caused be human error(duh) so of course Glocks will have a higher number of ad's.

IMHO I think that most happen to inexperienced and new gun owners whom buy a Glock because thats a household name.Everybody that knows nothing about firearms wants a Glock(I am not saying anyone here is!)

So with that added to the 25-1 ratio,of course Glocks will have higher ad's,and I'm sorry but any who says otherwise is in denial

[molonlabetn]

Well so far I read that there 25 Glocks sold to every 1 of X,and that ad's are usually caused be human error(duh) so of course Glocks will have a higher number of ad's.

IMHO I think that most happen to inexperienced and new gun owners whom buy a Glock because thats a household name.Everybody that knows nothing about firearms wants a Glock(I am not saying anyone here is!)

So with that added to the 25-1 ratio,of course Glocks will have higher ad's,and I'm sorry but any who says otherwise is in denial

I would be very surprised if Glock sells 25 times more guns than any other handgun manufacturer... Though I don't doubt that they do have a large portion of the market. Where did you read that information?

[strickj]

The majority of AD's while I was SOing have been 1911s. I do not think it is fair to say that Glocks have more ADs. The data will show that their are 25 Glocks sold to 1 of brand b. You would also have to decide if the AD was human error or mechanical failure.You have an arduous task in front of you. Good luck and may the force be with you.

.....

[molonlabetn]

Thanks... didn't catch that.

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

I would be very surprised if Glock sells 25 times more guns than any other handgun manufacturer... Though I don't doubt that they do have a large portion of the market. Where did you read that information?

he read it over at GLOCK Talk they never lie over there:D

[Urse]

Here is a link to the firearms manufactured statistics page at the BATF website.

Looks like S&W far and away manufactures more handguns than Glock.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/index.htm

[strickj]

Your right

Glock+ 26542

S&W=223017

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196475

[Guest GLOCKGUY]

Here is a link to the firearms manufactured statistics page at the BATF website.

Looks like S&W far and away manufactures more handguns than Glock.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/stats/index.htm

i might be wrong but i think this is just what is manufactured in the USA NOT what is imported because there is more .45 gaps in the US then this number on this link

Edited April 2, 2008 by GLOCKGUY

[strickj]

Theres an import tab there somewhere