Federal Agents Demand Customer Lists From Mormon Food Storage Facility in TN

[TMF]

The absence or presence of such entities will not change a thing other than concentrating the irresponsible population in predetermined "camps" where they will have few rights and zero protection.

I can feed and protect my family better than the gov. When I crank that emergency radio and hear the instructions of what nearest camp to report to, I then know what areas to avoid.

I have no intention to be in a refugee camp either, but what about the majority of the population that doesn't have the means to provide for themselves? Do we just let them starve or devolve into anarchy while the government tell them "well you should have prepared better"? This isn't about those who ARE prepared, it's about those who aren't.

[gregintenn]

So what exactly did TEMA/FEMA do to make the situation worse? If they were ill-prepared to handle such an event don't you think it would be prudent for them to take measures to better prepare in the future?

They were just in the way. They blocked roads, took up space in vacant buildings people could have used for other things, etc. I think it would be prudent for them to no longer exist. As I said in an earlier post, there are plenty of local agencies more than capable of handling such a situation.

[Guest thorn]

I have no intention to be in a refugee camp either, but what about the majority of the population that doesn't have the means to provide for themselves? Do we just let them starve or devolve into anarchy while the government tell them "well you should have prepared better"? This isn't about those who ARE prepared, it's about those who aren't.

Do you think that the trivial number of people and quantity of stored food they might have would in any way affect what these agencies might do? If so please explain...

[Guest Baron]

I have no intention to be in a refugee camp either, but what about the majority of the population that doesn't have the means to provide for themselves? Do we just let them starve or devolve into anarchy while the government tell them "well you should have prepared better"? This isn't about those who ARE prepared, it's about those who aren't.

As stated above, they just don't work or they do not work as well as private and charity organizations that have historically done an excellent job with disaster relief. Also, as stated above, the "EMAS" have often hindered or even blocked said organizations.

I don't mean to sound like Ron Paul, but the Gov has nothing of its own to provide those who are not prepared. They have to take money from us and then spend 3-4 times (and up) more to deliver the same service/product than an organization like the Red Cross. Its nothing more than more Gov spending bloat and control. I rank it right up there with Federal Healthcare.

I do understand that many times people need help. That is why I also prepare so that I have the ability to help others as well as volunteer for organizations I know can really help.

Government assistance is needed for things like alert systems and law enforcement. In my area, they do a superb job with the alert system. Law enforcement, however, could use some work as they were overwhelmed last time we were hit.

However, let me put back on my horns and say...Yes, they should have prepared. You are a fool and it is inexcusable (at least in this country) if you are not. Odds are that something, probably a natural disaster, will effect you at some time. Those who choose to ignore that fact made their choice and I will not sacrifice my family for them.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Baron

[Guest thorn]

Do you think that the trivial number of people and quantity of stored food they might have would in any way affect what these agencies might do? If so please explain...

You know what? Nevermind. I'm not going to beat around the bush while my eyes bleed. This is from Webster:

lib·er·ty

noun,plural-ties.

1.freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.

2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.

3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking,speaking, etc., according to choice.

4. freedom from captivity, confinement, or physical restraint: The prisoner soon regained his liberty.

5. permission granted to a sailor, especially in the navy, to go ashore.

Edited December 13, 2011 by thorn

[TMF]

You know what? Nevermind. I'm not going to beat around the bush while my eyes bleed. This is from Webster:

lib·er·ty

noun,plural-ties.

1.freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.

2. freedom from external or foreign rule; independence.

3. freedom from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, etc.; power or right of doing, thinking,speaking, etc., according to choice.

4. freedom from captivity, confinement, or physical restraint: The prisoner soon regained his liberty.

5. permission granted to a sailor, especially in the navy, to go ashore.

I'm still trying to figure out how the existance of a government run disaster relief organization is somehow in contradiction to liberty. That's like saying that there should be no Fire Department, because "they shouldn't have left the stove on" or "they should've invested in a smoke detector... guess they're gonna have to burn for it."

[Guest thorn]

I'm still trying to figure out how the existance of a government run disaster relief organization is somehow in contradiction to liberty. That's like saying that there should be no Fire Department, because "they shouldn't have left the stove on" or "they should've invested in a smoke detector... guess they're gonna have to burn for it."

So it's fire departments they sit in front of houses and watch them burn because someone did not pay the fee?

[G27]

I'm still trying to figure out how the existance of a government run disaster relief organization is somehow in contradiction to liberty. That's like saying that there should be no Fire Department, because "they shouldn't have left the stove on" or "they should've invested in a smoke detector... guess they're gonna have to burn for it."

Well, to be specific, it's not a constitutional federal power. Fire depts are local gov, as they should be under the 10A.

By rationalizing the usurping of power by our FedGov, we've allowed it to bloat and grow far beyond what it should.

[TMF]

Well, to be specific, it's not a constitutional federal power. Fire depts are local gov, as they should be under the 10A.

By rationalizing the usurping of power by our FedGov, we've allowed it to bloat and grow far beyond what it should.

Perhaps but that is a different argument. In fact, the TEMA/FEMA things is way off the OP as well so I'm abandoning the topic. If we want to open another thread about how FEMA sucks and is undermining the Constitution then I'm all about it.

I'm still in question as to the validity of a federal agency inquiring about food storage facilities. From what I've read it's a second hand account and the agency in question has yet to be identified.

[RobertNashville]

Well, to be specific, it's not a constitutional federal power. Fire depts are local gov, as they should be under the 10A.

By rationalizing the usurping of power by our FedGov, we've allowed it to bloat and grow far beyond what it should.

Whether or not FEMA should exist or is a proper function of the federal government is something that can be debated but clearly, the states have a right to have such organizations if they choose to have them. I would submit that FEMA or something like it both should exist and that its existence is a proper function/role of the federal government.

You cannot have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness if your house and half of a state has been destroyed by an earthquake – an individual can and should prepare for emergencies but some emergencies are too large for individuals to prepare for/survive without help and some are too big for a community or a state to prepare for/respond to.

[RobertNashville]

So it's fire departments they sit in front of houses and watch them burn because someone did not pay the fee?

Do you really want to go back to that story? I think that thread was a few dozen pages long and nothing new to be said about it.

[Guest thorn]

Do you really want to go back to that story? I think that thread was a few dozen pages long and nothing new to be said about it.

No I do not and note that it was not my example that brought it up. It was not at all the point.

But sticking to the topic, do you really think that the trivial amount of food or prep an individual might have will have any affect on how these agencies might react? You said this:

"You cannot have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness if your house and half of a state has been destroyed by an earthquake – an individual can and should prepare for emergencies but some emergencies are too large for individuals to prepare for/survive without help and some are too big for a community or a state to prepare for/respond to."

Tell me how a bag of beans from the cannery plays into your thinking??? If this did actually happen there is nothing you can reasonably bring to argument that would justify asking for a "Customer List".

[Guest Baron]

On the original topic, I see this as likely isolated, non-related, incidents.

The Mormons - I assume it falls under the same task the Feds ran to question other prep sellers like Army Surplus Owners. More on this below.

The TN Questioning - I would bet was just to get the numbers so they could ask for Gov money.

I base how I prepare and stock on the probability of an event. I try to consider all possibilities, even the unlikely. A tornado or ice storm taking out the local power grid for a couple of weeks is on the top of the list. Zombies and invading foreign military...well they would be on the bottom.

Somewhere between Twister and Red Dawn there sits an American Government and Public that likes to slide up and down that scale. For the next couple of years I have Federal Shenanigans and Public Reactions on a condition yellow. I am not losing any sleep, but there is enough cause for observation.

I believe the Fed is also on a condition yellow and is watching the American public. I believe that they believe there is enough probability to prepare for civil uprising or unrest. They are probably gathering information so they know what they might be up against and preparing accordingly.

Edit- I had to cut the rest. It was probably too tinfoil hat and I prefer to keep within board rules.

Edited December 13, 2011 by Baron

[RobertNashville]

But sticking to the topic, do you really think that the trivial amount of food or prep an individual might have will have any affect on how these agencies might react? You said this:

"You cannot have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness if your house and half of a state has been destroyed by an earthquake – an individual can and should prepare for emergencies but some emergencies are too large for individuals to prepare for/survive without help and some are too big for a community or a state to prepare for/respond to."

Tell me how a bag of beans from the cannery plays into your thinking??? If this did actually happen there is nothing you can reasonably bring to argument that would justify asking for a "Customer List".

Do I think that the trivial amount of food or prep an individual might have will have any affect on how these agencies might react? No, I don't think what any one individual has would. But; do I think that knowing that some significant percentage of a lot of individuals have "X" amount of emergency provisions (and what kind) might make a difference to, say, TEMA; possibly, yes.

As to the customer list, I'm hearing different things about what is being asked and who is doing the asking so I can't "justify" anything at this point; all I was doing was making a point there there may be a less nefarious purpose to the questions that some are assuming.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

The list by itself is not my concern. It's all the little(and some big ) things this

administration and Congress is doing that add up to a lot of evil. If you put it all together

it isn't a pretty sight.

The internet kill switch thing still bothers me. It really depends on what kind of emergency

we're talking about. Bunch of crap to me.

Defense Authorization Bill that can make us all terrorists.

Fast and Furious. Enough said.

How many more? Those are just recent.

[RobertNashville]

The list by itself is not my concern. It's all the little(and some big ) things this

administration and Congress is doing that add up to a lot of evil. If you put it all together

it isn't a pretty sight.

The internet kill switch thing still bothers me. It really depends on what kind of emergency

we're talking about. Bunch of crap to me.

Defense Authorization Bill that can make us all terrorists.

Fast and Furious. Enough said.

How many more? Those are just recent.

I would say that with many government functions/agencies; it often has more to do with who is in control of them at the moment than the existence of the agency itself.

[Guest thorn]

I would say that with many government functions/agencies; it often has more to do with who is in control of them at the moment than the existence of the agency itself.

It's always the ones in power. If you look back it happens on all watches whether it is direct or merely compromise you never get it back the way it was.

I'll charge you with showing any example and I will show the affect, lingering and even blossoming - guarunteed.

[RobertNashville]

It's always the ones in power. If you look back it happens on all watches whether it is direct or merely compromise you never get it back the way it was.

I'll charge you with showing any example and I will show the affect, lingering and even blossoming - guarunteed.

People aren't perfect...got it.

[Guest thorn]

People aren't perfect...got it.

No they are not, but the idea has been taken over by reality.

[Guest thorn]

If you are not a "member" they do require you to put name and address (maybe phone#) on the p.o. at the Cannery.

[Guest Skully]

This is my first post in S/P, so pls be gentle (i mostly just hang in the FS firearms).

I know the folks that run the Knoxville LDS Cannery. I asked about this and he showed me an email sent to all LDS Canneries from the head LDS church in Salt Lake. It categorically denied that this ever occurred. My friend also spoke to the Hendersonville Cannery where this was supposed to have happened and he told my friend there was zero truth to the rumor.

I also note that the site that first "broke the story" is know for tinfoil and making stuff up on a regular basis.

I apologize if this info has already been offered in this thread; i just didnt have the heart to read 7 pages to find out.

[TMF]

This is my first post in S/P, so pls be gentle (i mostly just hang in the FS firearms).

I know the folks that run the Knoxville LDS Cannery. I asked about this and he showed me an email sent to all LDS Canneries from the head LDS church in Salt Lake. It categorically denied that this ever occurred. My friend also spoke to the Hendersonville Cannery where this was supposed to have happened and he told my friend there was zero truth to the rumor.

I also note that the site that first "broke the story" is know for tinfoil and making stuff up on a regular basis.

I apologize if this info has already been offered in this thread; i just didnt have the heart to read 7 pages to find out.

This is kinda what I was looking for. I don't put anything past some of our government agencies in regards to how they conduct investigations and what they'll tell people in order to collect information; there's a lot of ambitious federals that want to get a golden star by their name. However, I would just assume that if such an agency was involved they would at least show identification to the person they were interviewing/questioning. In that case that agency would have to answer for their actions regarding this incident. Since there is nothing stating what agency was involved and there is nothing stating an inquiry into that agency it all sounds a little suspect in regards to the validity of the whole story. As much as I despise the ACLU, this is one of those cases they would be all over if it were true.

[Makiaveli]

I got reminded of this recently and did some digging (this may have been noted here but want to mention it JIC) that Clinton signed some orders/laws/whatever that made it legal for the govt to confiscate supplies from "hoarders".

My question is does anyone know what they would consider hoarding? Curious to know how much, and if it has to be stored in one place to count etc.

Note I am not trying to break the law etc, I just want to know the guidelines etc. I am in no danger of actually having a hoard anytime soon, but want to get some ducks in a row.

[hkgonra]

I have looked and have never been able to find any guidelines, much like the ATF rules and how many guns you sell making you a dealer has no guidelines.

No doubt this is left open so they can use any standard they want.