.38Special Carry Ammo

[TN-popo]

From a discussion on another board, I posted this...

I carry Atlanta Arms and Ammo 148gr FMJ Wadcutters (yes, FMJ) in my 642.

Is it the greatest thing out there? Nope.

But...

*It's extremely accurate.

*Very low recoil for faster follow-up shots.

*14-18" of penetration in 10% gel.

*Low flash.

*Bullet profile is better than round nose FMJ for tissue damage.

*Carry or practice, same load.

YMMV

Regarding recoil, my personal test is to fire the given round "weak" hand only (worst case scenario). If the gun shifts in my hand during recoil, it's too much.

The Speer 135gr+P Gold Dot (one of the few .38 JHPs worth a crap) shifts in my hand...no go.

BTW, I carry my 642 in my weak hand, front pocket as my BUG and off-duty gun.

Shot placement is everything. Handguns suck as far as "stopping power" and I'm already planning on having to shoot more than once anyway.

Here's a good article, from an authority on the topic, touching on the subject...

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19914

PS. Another option for me is the Hornady 158gr XTP.

These are my two .38 carry loads.

Edited December 4, 2011 by TN-popo

[Erik88]

I agree. My Ruger LCR already has enough recoil, the last thing I want to do is carry +P rounds that kick like a mule.

I carry standard pressure critical defense.

[TN-popo]

I carry standard pressure critical defense.

Cool, I posted Dr. Roberts gel tests of this round awhile back...it performed well.

.38 Sp Hornady 110 gr FTX "Critical Defense", ave vel=876fps

BG: pen=12.7"; RD=0.46"; RL=0.40"; RW=108.9gr

4LD: pen=14.2"; RD=0.42"; RL=0.55"; RW=108.9gr

I choose not to use it because...

A. Didn't shoot to point-of-aim/not as accurate from my J-frame.

B. Muzzle flash was significant.

If these are not a factor for you, it's a good choice.

Edited December 4, 2011 by TN-popo

[Howler]

I never had problems shooting the +p Speer GD. It had a little more kick than the rest, but I figured if for some reason I had to shoot it I'd never know the difference. BTW has anyone shot he wadcutters loaded backward? Been talked about, but never seen it used.

[Moped]

I carry Federal Nyclads in my Colt Agent. Most accurate round I've found for this particular pistol.

[gregintenn]

I believe a wadcutter would make a fine self defense round. Elmer Keith sure liked a big flat nose on a bullet, and he had a lot of practical experience while testing different bullet designs. I'm a big advocate of "carry what you shoot".

Edited December 4, 2011 by gregintenn

[tnhawk]

I've been using Wincherster 38spl +P 125 gr JHP in my 442. I don't fire it often as it mainly used as a backup.

[TNWNGR]

I agree that penetration with a flat metplate is a positive but I’m not too sure about the rest of the information exchange here. Using +p 38 Special rounds in a S&W 442 is an invitation for handling and control issues while firing so standard velocity makes a lot of sense. Still, I’d be more comfortable with a decent HPB.

Then there is the issue of a LE BUG or ODG with either issued or required ammunition so you have to learn to make the best of it. A lot of folks have gone with the Charter Arms, S&W J Frame or Ruger in 32 H&R magnum simply because of reduced recoil and good penetration. The OP has done his range work and research to present a good case. I’d probably try different grips or go with a different front pocket BUG.

[Ropin4gold]

I like the 158grn, lead hollow points in the j-frames.

[NRA]

I ag

?ree that penetration with a flat metplate is a positive but I’m not too sure about the rest of the information exchange here. Using +p 38 Special rounds in a S&W 442 is an invitation for handling and control issues while firing so standard velocity makes a lot of sense. Still, I’d be more comfortable with a decent HPB.

Then there is the issue of a LE BUG or ODG with either issued or required ammunition so you have to learn to make the best of it. A lot of folks have gone with the Charter Arms, S&W J Frame or Ruger in 32 H&R magnum simply because of reduced recoil and good penetration. The OP has done his range work and research to present a good case. I’d probably try different grips or go with a different front pocket BUG.

[NRA]

thats better now I can see it

[mikegideon]

I carry 110 grain Hornady CD in both my .38's. My 637 has enough recoil already, and my Model 36 isn't designed for +P. I haven't spent any time evaluating them, because I normally shoot my semi-autos when mess with handguns. I've always been a little wild with snubbies anyway.

As an average joe citizen, I will never see the need to carry a BUG. If I was an LEO, I probably wouldn't be caught without one, but I'm not. I'm trying to avoid gun fights... something that an LEO can't always do.

[TN-popo]

I agree that penetration with a flat metplate is a positive but I’m not too sure about the rest of the information exchange here. Using +p 38 Special rounds in a S&W 442 is an invitation for handling and control issues while firing so standard velocity makes a lot of sense. Still, I’d be more comfortable with a decent HPB.

Then there is the issue of a LE BUG or ODG with either issued or required ammunition so you have to learn to make the best of it. A lot of folks have gone with the Charter Arms, S&W J Frame or Ruger in 32 H&R magnum simply because of reduced recoil and good penetration. The OP has done his range work and research to present a good case. I’d probably try different grips or go with a different front pocket BUG.

Thanks for your input (to everyone, as well).

TNWNGR, on one hand you reenforce my argument, but then factor in things beyond the discussion.

1. There are very few standard pressure .38 JHPs that actually work reliably (expand significantly and penetrate at least 12" in calibrated 10% gel) from a 2" barrel and I think most have been mentioned.

2. LE ammunition requirements never were part of this discussion.

3. We're talking about .38 Special caliber from 2" revolvers.

Heck, I'd feel more comfortable with a .90 caliber bullet traveling 2000fps, with zero recoil, from my 2" revolver! However, it doesn't exist.

Everything defense related is a compromise and that is the point that I was trying to make.

Regards

Edited December 6, 2011 by TN-popo

[Patton]

FWIW, I have always imagined my BUG would most likely be used within a couple of feet if not pushed up against the target. This has always lead me to believe that I want the hottest round and not necessarily the one I group the best with. I understand a concearn with slower followup shots.

[DMark]

This is the carry load for all of my J-Frames.

Buffalo Bore Ammunition 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollow Point.

Its a standard pressure load. The wide hollow point, soft alloy and useful velocity in an accurate round are perfect for the applications I use a J-Frame for.

TN-popo, great point about using your support hand to test for recoil.

[TN-popo]

^^^

Yep, another great snubby load.

Their full power wadcutter load is no slouch, either.

http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=111

Edited December 6, 2011 by TN-popo

[Caster]

POPO, you're talking about a full wadcutter right, not a semi wad cutter?

Yeah, I can see that. I bet a BG would bleed like a fountain from pair of holes left from those.

[A.J. Holst]

I started carrying a bug since I'm left handed...in a vehicle, a left hand draw doesn't work well.

So enters my SP101. While the weight of the gun tames a lot of recoil, I am still shooting with my weak hand, so magnum and +p loads were not a great option. I too chose a standard pressure swc- hp which is very manageable. I have seen the rants of old / low tech, poor expansion and the like on other forums; if I need to use my bug its probably going to be close and not too comfortable, like 0 - 3 feet. I figure 158 grains of old tech should work under these conditions...

For you ballistics gurus: I have also heard with a lead bullet, you want less than 950 ft/sec for best bullet performance and to avoid lead fouling. Any truth?

[wjh2657]

I carry Hornady 125 gr XTP/JHP standard pressure rounds in my snubbies. It penetrates well, has manageable recoil and is super accurate in my guns (637,642,640 and 60) I have a buddy that carries the 158 gr version of the same round and he is very happy with it. I used to carry Federal Nyclads until they went strictly LEA (They are now available again, but I am happy with what I have,) In my 686 2 1/2" I carry real fire belcher +Ps of several different types but the little guns require specific ammo for ease of handling,

[Guest 270win]

I use winchester sxt 130 grain +P in my snub 38. It is not bad to shoot to me. I believe this load, along with the speer 135 grain +P's were made for snubs. The winchester sxt 130 grain ammo seems to be quality ammo. I have picked mine up usually at bass pro.

[Guest carter]

I dont really carry a revolver... but i do shoot Federal HydraShock 147 grain +p+... out of 357 with 4 inch barrel

[Guest msparks]

I've been using Wincherster 38spl +P 125 gr JHP in my 442. I don't fire it often as it mainly used as a backup.

That's what's in our SP101.

[leroy]

Been noticing that lots of folks like the +P light bullet loads (...125, 130, 140 grainers...). Do they shoot to the point of aim in your j frame?

leroy

[BryanP]

The Speer 135gr+P Gold Dot (one of the few .38 JHPs worth a crap) shifts in my hand...no go.

That is what I carry, but it's in a S&W 649. I have no problem with a little extra weight and it goes a long way in soaking up recoil and making the +P rounds easier to fire. I bought the 649 to replace a now-sold 638 airweight. I hated shooting +P out of that thing.

[TN-popo]

That is what I carry, but it's in a S&W 649. I have no problem with a little extra weight and it goes a long way in soaking up recoil and making the +P rounds easier to fire. I bought the 649 to replace a now-sold 638 airweight. I hated shooting +P out of that thing.

Agreed.

If I carried a steel J-Frame, I would do the same as it makes a big difference in felt recoil.