Paul Second Place in New Iowa Poll and Cain Finally Drops Out

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Video from Conservative1001BG

[greenego]

Newt,s number one. Ron,s number two. If history is any indication of the future, Ron could be number one soon.

[Mike.357]

some of them peak too soon.

Waiting to see how they burn Newt at the stake now.

[wjh2657]

I would and will, if chance permits, vote for Ron Paul. I am afraid that is not going to happen because Dr. Paul follows the Jeffersonian principles of the Constitution and the entire remaining political structure follows the Hamiltonian system. As a people we lost this argument in 1896 (end of Grover Cleveland's Presidency) and I don't think Dr. Paul can dig it out of the trenches. it is a crying shame, it would have been an interesting change in the country!

[kieefer]

Democrats Jumping Ship? - Fox Business Video - Fox Business

Gingrich has support from 25 percent of likely Republican caucusgoers in the Hawkeye state. Paul has risen to second with 18 percent and Romeny slipped to third with 16 percent. Undecided came in fourth place with 11 percent.

Appears even some liberal democrats are looking to Paul instead of their 2008 saviour.

Wait and see in Jan.

[Guest ArmyVeteran37214]

Another video from Conservative1001BG

[kieefer]

I found it odd that RonPaul has a former oblameo supporter, along with some vermin in the OWS campers, according to her. Could there be more leftist joining the RonPaul small government, anti-war-anti-everything crowd???...say it ain't so.

[Guest 6.8 AR]

I don't think the OWS crowd even vote. They barely know how to bathe. It's

probably some kind of ruse to throw off voters into thinking some other way.

May even be more Alinsky tactics.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Its hard to say. Libertarians are more liberal than liberals on some issues and more conservative than conservatives on other issues, so it would make sense that libertarian philosophy would draw from both sides.

Some people tend democrat because they don't like big brother in their personal lives, though they may not agree with marxist economics. Or they may not care that much about economic details.

Some people tend republican because they don't like big brother in their business and bank accounts, though they may not agree with "moral majority" interference in people's personal lives. Or they may not care about the war on abortion or the war on drugs as long as big brother stays out of their bank account and off their property.

Plenty of republican-leaning folk must be fed-up with the party's lack of success staying out of their pocket books. Plenty of democrat-leaning folk must be fed-up with the democrat party's lack of success staying out of their personal lives.

Talking heads think that such as Romney can attract a winning percentage of moderates. Apparently they think that the mass of people "in the middle" perfer a moderate amount of economic fascism combined with a moderate amount of social fascism. But the other "middle of the road" position is the max amount of personal freedom combined with the max amount of economic freedom.

Perhaps it really is true that most centrist swing voters prefer "moderate" amounts of gov repression in all areas. Ron Paul draws from the other centrists who want more personal freedom than offered by democrats and/or more economic freedom than offered by RINO's.

Libertarians historically don't draw more than a few percent of the vote. It may be because the vast majority of "moderates" are of the Bill O'Reilly "fascist lite" variety, or maybe it is just a problem of not being able to get the message out. Dunno.

[mav]

Its hard to say. Libertarians are more liberal than liberals on some issues and more conservative than conservatives on other issues, so it would make sense that libertarian philosophy would draw from both sides.

Some people tend democrat because they don't like big brother in their personal lives, though they may not agree with marxist economics. Or they may not care that much about economic details.

Some people tend republican because they don't like big brother in their business and bank accounts, though they may not agree with "moral majority" interference in people's personal lives. Or they may not care about the war on abortion or the war on drugs as long as big brother stays out of their bank account and off their property.

Plenty of republican-leaning folk must be fed-up with the party's lack of success staying out of their pocket books. Plenty of democrat-leaning folk must be fed-up with the democrat party's lack of success staying out of their personal lives.

Talking heads think that such as Romney can attract a winning percentage of moderates. Apparently they think that the mass of people "in the middle" perfer a moderate amount of economic fascism combined with a moderate amount of social fascism. But the other "middle of the road" position is the max amount of personal freedom combined with the max amount of economic freedom.

Perhaps it really is true that most centrist swing voters prefer "moderate" amounts of gov repression in all areas. Ron Paul draws from the other centrists who want more personal freedom than offered by democrats and/or more economic freedom than offered by RINO's.

Libertarians historically don't draw more than a few percent of the vote. It may be because the vast majority of "moderates" are of the Bill O'Reilly "fascist lite" variety, or maybe it is just a problem of not being able to get the message out. Dunno.

Well said Lester. I have often said that the vast majority of people in this country are quasi-socialists in denial.

[Guest mikedwood]

Well said Lester. I have often said that the vast majority of people in this country are quasi-socialists in denial.

I think Paul can have a strong pull from both sides. I really think the best of any of the other candidates. BUT the thing I do fear is that the government teet will win out of the message of freedom.

I think you can take any 10 people in America that want the smallest of governments and there would be something that they don't want cut. For me it's TVA I'm addicted to cheap power.

I think if Dr. Paul goes up against Obama the main thing that he will have to answer is Social Security and Medicare. I think Dr. Paul can handle it but that is what and really the only things Obama would have as a scare tactic.

Dr. Paul has stated I think that Social Security is untouchable, but if anything that will be the thorn in his side.

[Oh Shoot]

...BUT the thing I do fear is that the government teet will win out of the message of freedom....

47% of US don't pay income taxes, 20% are on food stamps, 20% collect social security. And rising.

Dems expand their voting base as things get worse, since people fear they'll lose gimmies, much of which wouldn't be necessary if Dem policies weren't so entrenched. Vicious circle.

- OS

[kieefer]

I think if Dr. Paul goes up against Obama the main thing that he will have to answer is Social Security and Medicare. I think Dr. Paul can handle it but that is what and really the only things Obama would have as a scare tactic.

Dr. Paul has stated I think that Social Security is untouchable, but if anything that will be the thorn in his side.

Paul couldn't do anything without support in the House and Senate, he stumbles here on how he'd do it. We first have to quit all the spending over seas among other things ...I can't see that happening.

Ron Paul - End Medicare, Social Security & Medicaid? - YouTube

[Guest lostpass]

47% of US don't pay income taxes, 20% are on food stamps, 20% collect social security. And rising.

Dems expand their voting base as things get worse, since people fear they'll lose gimmies, much of which wouldn't be necessary if Dem policies weren't so entrenched. Vicious circle.

- OS

You that makes a lot of sense if you imagine people work logically. I've never found that to be the case. A quick search tells me that the older people get the more likely they are to be republican. It also turns out the older you are the more likely you are to get social security or medicare. So the logical conclusion is that the older you get the more you'd tend democrat. That doesn't seem to be the case.

Personal experience tells me a lot of people don't think much about this. My mother in law is on medicare and so you'd imagine that she'd be pro Obama but nope, she hates the guy. In fact everyone where she lives hates Obama, even the folks on welfare. Which are a lot of them.

I suspect, if someone took the time, that this is an urban versus rural thing. Not so much who is on the teat or off. People are more than happy to vote against their self interests with just a little motivation.

I often see the bumper sticker that says "The democracy will last until people realize they can vote themselves rich" or some such statement. Which is a sensible sentiment but I think it is wrongheaded. The democracy lasts as long as people argue. They go out and angrily vote ( a great stress reliever) and then complain about the results. It is a great play. But the entire time people are hemming and hawing over Bush or Kerry and Obama or Newt laws keep getting passed. Cause we elect law makers and if you're a lawmaker law is the hammer and problem looks like a nail. And every law stops you from doing something.

It's not a question of republican or democrat, especially at the presidential level, it's a question of how fast do you want to get there? Cause it doesn't matter who the bus driver is the destination is the same.

I am afraid that the days of a president or congressperson standing up for the right thing are over if they ever actually existed.

[Oh Shoot]

...

It's not a question of republican or democrat, especially at the presidential level, it's a question of how fast do you want to get there? Cause it doesn't matter who the bus driver is the destination is the same. ...

Well, I certainly agree with that, and have been saying it for some time; upside down pyramid is teetering, only real unknown is how soon it topples. At this point it can be only be temporarily shored up to buy some time or given additional shoves to hurry up and knock it over.

- OS