Priming 9mm

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Got an RCBS "universal hand priming tool" and so far am pleased.

It seats primers good and easy. The only minor annoyances so far--

1. The little flipper grooves in the tray are possibly a little too shallow. My old dillon round flipper tray appears to have deeper grooves and it will flip 100 primers the right direction with just a few shakes, but the RCBS tray seems to very quickly flip all but about 5, and then no matter how long you keep shaking, there remains about 5 pointed the wrong way. Every time one of the upside-down stragglers rights itself, another primer that was previously rightside up flips itself upside down. So there remains a few wrong-way stragglers indefinitely. Have to just give up and flip the stragglers with a finger after the majority of primers are flipped the correct way. Will probably get better practiced at it. That was using federal small pistol primers. It may act different with other brands or sizes of primers.

2. The RCBS clear plastic tray lid is held in place by a central post in the middle of the tray which "snaps" tight. Practice will make perfect and the tray will "break in" over time, but new it takes care to snap the lid tight without disturbing the primers. If you let it do too much of a "snap" that last fraction of an inch before the lid is tight, a bunch of primers get flipped upside down and then you have to take it apart and repeat step 1, and then try again to get the lid on without disturbing the primers.

However, that RCBS tool is bang on easy to properly seat a primer, and the tool is quick to prime a bunch of cases.

====

I didn't have serious issues with priming in my Square Deal B except--

1. It takes me a little too long feeding the primer pickup tube, and am too cheap to buy Dillon's automatic pickup tube stuffer.

2. Not really the fault of the Square Deal B, but out of each 100 reloads, there always seems a couple of tight cases that didn't want to prime good. Which resulted in maybe one round per each 100 with a high primer, and resulted in me operating the mechanism excessively slow and gentle on all 100 rounds just to avoid crushing the occasional tight primer, and to make sure the tight ones are seated well to avoid too much high-primer spoilage, and occasionally having to stop and remove a "troublesome" case to examine it and find out if the primer seated or not.

That might be best minimized just by pre-sorting the brass and discarding "known troublesome" headstamps, but that is another time-wasting step and even the "known good" brands of cases can have an occasional outlier that is too tight.

====

So that is why I started routinely uniforming the primer pockets. Seemed quicker just to hit each case on a uniformer bit, than to get side-tracked during loading by the occasional tight primer pocket.

Though it probably varies by lot and date, the troublesome brass tends to be occasional "oddball" headstamps, plus Speer, S&B, and PPU (Prvi Partizan). Some people say that PPU is excellent brass except for tight primer issues.

The uniformer seems to remove the least metal from WIN brass. Apparently the once-fired WIN brass has pockets nearly identical in size to my uniformer bit, or at least the older WIN brass I've been working thru. More brass gets removed from Rem and Federal primer pockets, but Win, Rem, and Federal generally seat a primer real easy, usually even if the pockets are not uniformed. Uniforming just makes it less likely to have a high primer.

Uniforming the PPU 9mm makes them easy to seat. They feel a little tight compared to Win, Rem and Federal, but seat real smooth.

Uniforming the Speer, S&B, and the occasional oddball headstamps was not making them easier to seat. They were still tight and hard to seat.

Today was comparing the hard-seating examples against the easy-seating brands with a magnifying glass. Most of the easy-seating brass has a slight chamfer on the primer pocket opening. Some of the hard-seating brass has a sharp edge on the primer pocket opening. Other hard-seating brass has a chamfer, but also a slight "step ridge" in the hole right below the chamfer.

I think the brass with a "sharp edge" on the primer pocket hole makes it hard for the primer to start in the hole, especially if the diameter is slightly snug. Then you really have to torque the primer to force the primer resize on the way into that slightly-small hole, the primer metal working against the sharp edged opening.

The chamfered examples with a "step ridge" below the chamfer, I think that kind works the same but that slight inside step edge wants to hang up the primer after is starts into the pocket.

I experimentally took an RCBS inside case chamfer bit and tried making just the slightest chamfer on the hard-seating cases primer pockets. In about 50 "hard seating" cases I tested, just a tiny barely-visible extra chamfer on the primer pocket hole made em all easy-seating. A little tighter than average, but easy to smoothly seat without requiring excessive force. The Speer cases only needed the tiniest touch of chamfer. The S&B needed a little more. Some of the oddball brass needed the most chamfering, but even those need a magnifying glass to clearly view the chamfer. None of them had to be drastically chamfered.

Another thing-- The WIN brass seats easy and seems to have really good pocket dimensions, but had noticed that the WIN brass seemed to often seat with a "bump"-- Need to apply a little extra force at the beginning, but then the primer goes in the rest of the way "too sudden" after it overcomes the inirial resistance.

Looking at the Win brass with magnifying glass, the pocket has a nice chamfer but it also has a slight sharp ridge below the chamfer. Just not as extreme a ridge as on the hard-seating brands. Seems likely that the slight ridge is what makes em seat with a "bump" rather than smooth insertion.

So in additon to uniforming the primer pockets, I think doing a very slight chamfer on known-difficult brands, ought to make it possible to easy-seat nearly all brass. I encountered a few examples that were so oddball I couldn't even easily ream the pocket with the uniformer. So anything that won't sit down most of the way onto the uniformer bit, probably needs to be tossed rather than mess with em.

[LagerHead]

Does this work for all primer sizes?

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Hi Lagerhead

Yes that RCBS Universal Hand Primer will load about any cases, large or small primer.

They still sell an older design of RCBS hand primer that uses single-stage-press case holders rather than the "universal" case holder. The new one and old one are about the same price.

So with the old design one, you would need an appropriate case holder for each round you want to prime.

There are many reviews of both models at midwayusa. There are always a few reviewers who hate everything. There are some reviewers who like the old model but hate the new model. And some reviewers who hate the old model but like the new model. Overall both are well-reviewed.

Some people complain that the tool is too troublesome to switch a couple of little parts from large primers to small primers. Perhaps that means some people are even less mechanically inclined than I am, and I am nearly completely lacking in mechanical aptitude. It comes setup for large primers and only took a couple of minutes to switch over for small primers, all without breaking it or losing tiny parts.

I only load small primers at the moment.

Some people who like the tool but don't like changing primer parts, and load both large and small primers, report just buying two tools.

====

edit-- The universal shell holder is a couple of springloaded fingers you slide the case into. It works great as far as I can tell. Easy in and easy out. After inserting a case, giving the case a slight twist seems a good idea to make sure it is aligned the best.

Some reviewers said there are a couple of oddball calibers where the universal shell holder doesn't work good because the caliber has too-small rims. It seemed the most complaints on that issue were 45 long colt, if I'm remembering correctly.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Lester Weevils

[Guest 270win]

I also use an RCBS hand primer for priming my 9mm brass. It gets the primer at the right depth and is very easy to use.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I use several differnt kinds of primer tools dependong on what I am doing.

For bulk or pistol ammo I use the Lee Safety Primer (the older version). It works great but did have issues with the handle breaking on tough brass. I bought a new XR version to get a replacement handle and even though the handle is different it works with the old primer. The XR handle in the old primer seems to work a lot better than in the XR or the old handle in the old primer. I tried using the XR and it is a pain in the but with its safety step in the process. I found myself clearing jams more often with the XR than the old Safety Prime.

For times when i want a little more precision I use the Lee Ram Prime that mounts to the top of the press. It works great and uses the standard priming tray. The biggest thing I like about it is I can set the primer depth and have all cases come out with the primers the exact same height. You can't do this with a hand primer as the primer pocket itself determines the primer depth. And as I said I do this with precision loads where I want everything, including primer height, to be exactly the same. It is also the easiest way to seat primers.

The Ram Prime went out of production a few years ago and it was a pain to find one but I am glad I did. I use it for all my precision needs and I think it helped shrink my groups.

I also put a slight champfer on hard cases or cases that had crimped primers. It does make them a lot easier to load.

Dolomite

Here is what the Ram Prime looks like:

40415 - Auto-Prime II Press Mounted Priming Tool Warranty

[mikegideon]

I use the latest Lee hand primer. The safety step is a pain, but only a minor one. It works fine if you hold it right.

[Dolomite_supafly]

I use the latest Lee hand primer. The safety step is a pain, but only a minor one. It works fine if you hold it right.

i have found if you hold your tongue just right it helps as well.

Dolomite

[mikegideon]

i have found if you hold your tongue just right it helps as well.

Dolomite

Something like that :-). I've been thru several hundred rounds so far, and have only seated one backwards. I may try an RCBS one of these days. I do like the square primer trays on the Lee.

[Guest JMB]

I've done about a thousand rounds of 9mm with the new Lee hand primer.

Absolutely love it.

I get properly seated primers every time, which wasn't the case priming on the press. Easy flip on the primers and I can sit in the Lazy Boy and churn them out.

[dlm37015]

i am glad i have several of the older lee hand primers

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Yes when I was shopping, the MidwayUSA user reviews of the Lee hand primer looked equally good as the RCBS hand primer. The factors that made RCBS look better to me--

1. Square primer tray

2. Lee warns not to use Federal primers in their tool, though apparently a lot of people do use Fed primers with Lee hand tools regardless of the warning. I use mostly Federal primers just because thats what my loads were developed on, and it would be a little extra trouble to re-verify the loads switching to another brand of primer.

3. The RCBS has a little automatic gate which is claimed to prevent setting off the entire tray of primers if the one being seated goes off. Dunno if that is a significant advantage, having never used the Lee tool.

I primed a few hundred more last night, and the RCBS flipper tray was working great on the second session. It was flipping 100 percent of the primers after a few seconds of shaking. Maybe I had too much coffee that first session, when I couldn't get 100 percent of the primers to stay flipped.

There seem several high-end priming tools available, but the current motivation was to get more consistent priming and also be able to do it in the living room rather than stand at a bench out in the shop.

The primer pocket chamfering worked great this last session. I quickly hand-sorted headstamps, and merely uniformed the FC, RP, Blazer, and PMC which seem to do fine without chamfering. Sorted the WIN, Speer, PPU, S&B and oddballs into a second batch to uniform and then chamfer.

On the RCBS Trim Mate, tried doing a standard time on all rounds, not worrying about "perfection". Put each case on the uniformer bit for about 4 seconds. If the pocket is already the right size, then at least it knocks the dirt out of the pocket same as a cleaner bit. If there is not excessive resistance, then if four seconds isn't enough time to fully cut the pocket, then at least the pocket will be closer than it was. On a few rounds that had a lot of resistance, would uniform about 8 seconds.

For the headstamps I intended to chamfer the pockets, about 4 seconds each on the inside case chamfer tool worked out about right. The RCBS inside chamfer bit doesn't remove metal real quick on a primer pocket at the slow rotation speed of the Trim Mate, so four seconds made just a barely discernable chamfer.

It worked surprisingly well. All the mixed headstamp cases seated easy and to pretty consistent depths. Am guessing that the same pre-processing would make all the cases prime smooth as butter in the Square Deal B press as well.

Just seemed that priming on the SDB would be slower than hand-priming, when going to the extra uniforming step.

Before getting the hand primer and the lee hand press with universal decap die, was taking a bunch of brass out to the shop and size-deprime, inserting cases in station 1 and removing from station 2, then go back to the living room to uniform the pockets. Then go back out to the shop sometime later to load the primer tube, and run all the brass thru all four stations. The brass would go thru the size die twice, but probably no harm in that.

Its real fast mass-decapping with the lee hand press. I was thinking about maybe resizing/decapping in the lee hand press, but watched a bunch of youtube videos of people reloading with the lee hand press. They were having to put some muscle behind a decap/size die even with 9mm, and they were lubing the cases as well. It doesn't take any muscle at all just to decap with the universal decapper, and the SDB carbide dies sizes easy with no lube and the better leverage in the SDB.

So reloading the primed cases on the SDB, I just removed the decap pin from the size die, and don't bother to load the SDB primer tube. Otherwise just run thru all four stations as usual, except there is no time wasted gently feeling to make sure each primer goes in correctly.

Probably the fastest would be just to discard all brass that doesn't prime easy without any special treatment, and just go full speed ahead on the SDB without cleaning or uniforming the pockets. I was just always too spooked to run the press aggressive fast and risk setting off a primer in a bad pocket. So it was pretty slow machine operation in my hands.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

More on a very boring topic that ya'll are tired of hearing about--

Am enjoying the RCBS universal hand primer. Works smooth and consistent.

Loaded about 2200 9mm's the last couple of weeks. Sorting, prepping and priming in the livingroom then reloading in the shop. Maybe in reality it takes double the time, but doesn't seem as boring standing up in the dusty old shop because the SDB works real fast not having to mess with primers. Actually do achieve the "hundreds of rounds per hour" on the press itself. Previously, priming on the press it was more like 100 per hour if lucky. Am slow and dunno where the time goes, but previously would go out to the shop to load 100 rounds and then when finished it would be 2 hours later.

But there is lots more time spent sitting in the living room listening to the radio. Prepping the brass is a soothing repetitive pastime similar to shucking peas.

====

On the RCBS case prep machine, the RCBS uniformer bit is basically an end mill. It can be used as a "drill" on a too-tight pocket chucked in a lathe. But using the RCBS case prep machine, holding the case by hand it will about burn off yer fingers trying to carefully drill out a too-tight pocket.

But on a proper diameter primer pocket, the uniformer bit will end-mill the pocket depth fabulous and easy.

The RCBS case mouth inside chamfer tool was working fine to slightly chamfer "sharp edged" primer pocket holes, but was hoping to do better on too-small-diameter primer pockets and be able to more-predictably knock off crimps, so I got a Hornady Primer Reamer bit.

link-- Primer Pocket Reamer Cutter Head Small

Seems sharp and works good on the RCBS case prep machine. It doesn't do end-milling but does side cutting and cuts a good consistent chamfer assuming that the primer pocket is of the proper depth. If the primer pocket is not deep enough, then the chamfer part of the bit doesn't get a chance to bite.

So for normal brass, the Uniformer Bit and the Reamer bit work great together, one end-milling the proper depth and the other doing a consistent chamfer.

The main disappointment is that the Hornady Reamer diameter is not in complete agreement with the Uniformer Bit diameter. The Hornady Reamer diameter is slightly smaller.

The RCBS Uniformer bit agrees perfectly with the diameter of typical FC, PMC and a few other brand primer pockets. It slips in easy and knocks out whatever dirt or metal necessary to mill out to proper depth. The Uniformer bit is "a little tight" on WIN cases but works pretty easy. The Speer cases I have are tighter and it is more work on the fingers to hang onto the case running the Uniformer bit. Some brands like S&B are pure torture on the fingers because you are basically trying to use an end-mill to drill out a too-small hole.

The combo works great on WCC crimped brass. The reamer knocks out the crimp and the pocket is otherwise well-dimensioned and works great on the uniformer bit after the crimp is gone.

I wish the diameter of the Hornady Reamer agreed with the RCBS Uniformer. If that were the case, the sharp little reamer would side-cut the proper diameter on tight cases, allowing easy operation of the Uniformer bit. Unfortunately, the Reamer bit will go to the bottom of the tight S&B cases without removing hardly any metal, leaving the hole still unpleasantly tight for the Uniformer bit. The Reamer bit is still a nice little tool, but it would be better if it were a little larger diameter. An S&B primer pocket big enough to sit down on the Hornady Reamer is still very tight to impossible in trying to seat a Federal primer in the hole.

As best I can tell the Hornady Reamer will remove a crimp in a primer pocket of proper depth and diameter. It just won't open up a too-tight primer pocket.

====

Apparently RCBS has released a second version of their Universal Swage die (with stronger backing rods because lots of people were bending the skinny .223 rod) and Midway was doing a closeout on the old swage die sets for about $15. Got one of those to experiment with swaging.

It probably works great to knock out a crimp on an otherwise proper primer pocket, but was disappointing that the diameter of the swage nub also seems slightly undersize diameter. Had read many (generally positive) comments on the RCBS swager, but most of the comments were specific about removing crimps. The RCBS instructions say, "The Primer Pocket Swager is designed to remove the crimp and not to swage the entire primer pocket. If a primer will not seat properly after swaging, dispose of the case as the primer pocket is probably undersize."

Well, for $15 the tool will probably come in handy sometime for something, but didn't help as a painless way to expand tight pockets. S&B pockets sit down nice as you please all the way down on the swage nub with no expansion at all, except slight expansion of the pocket mouth region.

====

On the practical results of all the time spent processing cases--

It probably makes best sense just to learn the kinds of brass that works and discard all others, rather than messing with it.

However, processing the brass does result in all cases seating perfect a few thousandths below flush with very little work and not having to mash the snot out of an explosive primer.

Last night as an experiment I hand-primed a few hundred Win cases without processing them. So the cases still had some typical grunge in the bottom. Typically the uniformer bit doesn't remove much metal from the bottom of the Win cases, though it removes a fair amount of metal from the bottom of Federal cases. The FC cases seem slightly shallower and slightly bigger diameter than the Win cases. The uniformer bit does remove any and all dirt in the bottom of Win primer pockets.

The unprocessed Win cases all primed easy enough. A little bumpier than priming the processed Win cases but not bad at all. I suspect if priming on the press, the difference would be more noticeable than on the nice little hand-prime tool.

But one thing of interest-- ALL brands of processed cases have been priming consistent "in the ballpark" of 0.005" depth, but I was having to squeeze a little harder to get the unprocessed Win cases just barely below flush. Given that the uniformer bit doesn't remove much metal from the Win cases, it might stand to reason to suspect that just the typical burned gunk in the primer pocket is responsible for the seating depth difference. Out of a few hundred cases, all the brass primed slightly below flush with no spoilage. However, they are significantly higher than the processed cases, and required more force to set them slightly below flush.

Because the uniformer bit does remove some metal from the bottom most Federal cases (though the diameter of Federal cases prime really easy), am guessing that there would be good odds of having some high primer spoilage on unprocessed Federal cases. Or maybe one would have to mash the snot out of the primers to seat em flush on the FC unprocessed brass.

So anyway, that's how I've been spending my christmas holiday.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Lester Weevils

[mikegideon]

Lester,

You just about have me sold on the RCBS hand primer. I have about had it with my Lee. Since I started using my forster press, I have developed an appreciation for things without shell holders.

[MacGyver]

Lester,

You just about have me sold on the RCBS hand primer. I have about had it with my Lee. Since I started using my forster press, I have developed an appreciation for things without shell holders.

Mike, I noticed the new Midway sale paper has your Co-ax in it. I wonder if they've actually got any?

[mikegideon]

Mike, I noticed the new Midway sale paper has your Co-ax in it. I wonder if they've actually got any?

Yep. In stock. They were estimating Feb. BTW... I love that thing

[mikegideon]

Ok Lester... after priming 50 rounds of .223 brass last night, and fighting my Lee CheeseyPrime most of the way, I finally fired it. RCBS universal on the way!

[Guest Lester Weevils]

I hope the RCBS works good for you Mike, and doesn't turn me into a liar.

The groove pattern of the primer flip tray got easier to use after a little practice. Difficult to describe, but it needs a slightly different "shake" to get the primers to flip compared to my old Dillon flip tray.

The issue I earlier noted, about the tray lid being held on by a center post, and wanting to "snap" into position upsetting some of the primers-- I'm very mechanically uninclined, so every little thing I learn is hard-won knowledge-- The way to keep the primers from flipping wrong when snapping on the lid-- After all the primers are anvil-side-up, tilt the tray and let the primers all slide into the back-corner of the tray (opposite the tray mouth that goes into the tool). 100 primers will occupy maybe 1/8 of the tray area once they all slide into the corner. Set the lid on and hold down the back-corner of the lid over the primers, and then snap down the cover. With the lid already held-down over the primers, when the lid snaps into place the primers are not allowed to jump up and go upside-down.

I insert the case in the little springloaded shell-holder fingers then give it a twist to make sure it is centered.

On the processed brass the primer goes into the hole 100 percent of the time. On the un-processed WIN brass that had the correct sized primer pocket, maybe 1 out of 20 will show initial resistance slightly hanging on a primer pocket edge. Most of the time after the initial resistance they pop right in, but out of about 3000 primed so far, a couple of em managed to push the primer in sideways and mash it flat sideways in the pocket. I found a solution that seems near 100 percent-- If a primer shows significant initial resistance, keep the hand-lever pulled lightly holding the primer against the case and rotate the case about a quarter turn and it lines up and goes in easy. Sometimes it takes a couple of rotations and light squeezes to get the primer oriented correctly.

On a too-tight pocket, that rotating technique doesn't help so much, but in that case it isn't a fault of the priming tool.

I think the tool aligns the case and primers fine, but if a primer pocket doesn't have a slight chamfer or rounded lip it just doesn't feed 100 percent without a bit of occasional fiddling. As said, seems 100 percent on a smooth primer pocket opening.

I experienced the identical occasional feeding issues on the progressive press, but me being not-mechanically-inclined, it was difficult to diagnose what was going on with the case in the rotating shellholder and the priming mechanism completely invisible under the shellholder. Am guessing that the same solution (slightly rotate the case and push again) would also fix that problem when it happens on the SDB, now that I know to do it.

The tool has great leverage. Seats with very little effort of the hand muscles.

====

What kind of problems were you having with the Lee tool?

[mikegideon]

None of them are going to be perfect for what they charge. I always stop and take a look if something doesn't feel right. My brass has good pockets. For the stuff I'm doing, I have to use real good brass anyway. I'm not loading big quantities either.

[mikegideon]

Mike, I noticed the new Midway sale paper has your Co-ax in it. I wonder if they've actually got any?

Out of stock again. They're saying March for the next batch.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Mike, here is a dumb incidental question--

My F1 Master Chrony worked fine other times, but this last time it wouldn't fire up. LCD won't display. If I flip the power switch rapidly a few times the LCD will display but with a frozen, random readout.

Took it home, checked battery. Continuity checked the cabling. Then called the factory, but they are still closed for holidays so I figured it wouldn't be any worse broken if I looked inside the little remote "brain" for obvious easy problems. I don't have patience or time for extended electronic repair and am rusty on it anyway.

Popped it open. Verified power switch continuity. Looked for loose wiring or visibly-bad solder joints on the pc board. Then tapped various components looking for mechanical intermittencies. It contains a microcontroller, LCD, a few IC's, resistors, caps, diodes.

Nothing apparently mechanically intermittent but noticed that it runs fine if I touch the metal case of the crystal with a finger. Apparently it is an intermittent clocking problem. When you turn it on, either the clock doesn't start up, or it quickly stalls right after turnon.

It is not a connection problem with the crystal. Pushing on the crystal with a plastic probe does not start up the clock. Only touching the crystal with a finger. But even very lightly touching with a finger seems to get it running 100 percent (though maybe the clock frequency could be off-speed under those conditions). So it seems to need extra inductance from my finger in order to run.

Unfortunately the chrony would be impractical at the range if I have to constantly touch the crystal with a finger.

It is one of the "old fashioned" small two-terminal flat metal can crystals. 12 MHz. The difficult-to-read white print on silver says "12.000M 0PF NR". Dunno the kind of microcontroller unless I wanted to desolder the LCD. I don't want to know that bad. Of the PC stripes I can see, it appears the typical kind of microcontroller with the clock circuitry on the microcontroller. The crystal only seems to connect to a couple of pins on the microcontroller and nowhere else. Perhaps there is also a typical connection to a cap somewhere if I try to trace it down.

Anyway, what do you think of the odds that this crystal is the only thing at fault? I don't recall seeing this kind of symptom, but haven't worked on a lot of crystal circuits. Long ago occasionally worked on microprocessor startup problems, but only occasionally. The kind of problem where reset logic would fail on startup and such.

I don't want to turn it into a science project. Will most likely just order another "brain" box when the company starts answering the phone again, and then get this one fixed as a spare. Just wondering if there is something easy and obvious to try while I have the box open. It would be easier to send back the box for repair compared to ordering a crystal or trying to find a local ECG replacement. Even if the problem truly is the fault of the crystal.

Spent awhile looking at other brands of chrony's. Maybe some others are better. It is difficult to know because every brand of chrony has its own set of unhappy customers. This F1 Chrony worked fine earlier. Most complaints about all the chrony's are from people getting bad or inconsistent measurements, or lightweight shoddy construction. At least the F1 Chrony is in a rugged metal case.

I can't find any thread on the internet of an irate F1 Chrony customer complaining that his LCD won't turn on. So my failure mode may be relatively rare or somebody else would have already bitched about it!

[R_Bert]

Can you resolder the pads on the crystal ? That sounds like a cold-solder joint.

[Guest Lester Weevils]

Thanks R_Bert

Yes it would be easy to freshen up the solder connections. I'll try that.

The connections look good but often it is difficult to tell by looks. I was thinking if it was a mechanical problem with the solder joints or inside the crystal, then pressing on the crystal with a plastic probe would work just as good as a finger. But the inductance of a finger seems to be necessary. Dunno much about crystals, however.

Have seen problems in the past where a gadget worked fine for years, then after failure, open it up and find connections that were not even soldered, that just accidentally worked fine for years with just a friction fit in the circuit board hole.

[mikegideon]

My bet would be the crystal, if I had to guess without seeing it.

Check out the Competition Electronics chrony. On sale for 100 bucks. I have one, and am real happy with it. 82 reviews on the Midway site...

ProChrono Digital Chronograph

[Guest Lester Weevils]

My bet would be the crystal, if I had to guess without seeing it.

Check out the Competition Electronics chrony. On sale for 100 bucks. I have one, and am real happy with it. 82 reviews on the Midway site...

ProChrono Digital Chronograph

Thanks Mike

It seemed such a strange symptom. Having to touch the crystal with a finger to make it work. You probably work with crystal circuits all the time. Was wondering if it might be more likely some capacitor on the board that I probably have in the parts bins, or a weakness in the clock circuitry inside the microcontroller.

====

Yes, that ProChrono has the highest avg rating of any that MidwayUSA sells. Much better ratings than the two more-expensive brands that MidwayUSA sells. Next-highest after the Competition Electronics are the various Shooting Chrony models.

The sole user complaints about the ProChrono seem to be that it is built too "flimsy" or "light weight" to suit some of the customers. Very few complaints that the unit is inaccurate or doesn't work.

In audio gear customer reviews, inexpensive boxes tend to have better customer reviews than equivalent very expensive boxes. I know for a fact that the very expensive pro audio boxes tend to be overall better than the cheap ones, but when people lay down a stack for a gadget then they tend to be more critical of perceived minor inadequacies. In addition, pro's are more likely to buy the expensive boxes, people who are more discerning about the performance. The amateurs who mostly buy the cheap gadgets never used the expensive boxes and may be incapable of discerning any difference which might actually exist.

If it is the same with chronys, then perhaps the expensive chrony's really are better than the cheap ones, but people tend to be more critical in reviews because they expect more from the expensive ones?

Was just thinking if I buy an extra brain for the Shooting Chrony and get the old one fixed, would offer some redundancy, wheras buying an entirely different brand would not offer redundancy. But it may not matter. Perhaps they are more likely to be shot before they fail of their own accord.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Lester Weevils

[mikegideon]

My bet is still the crystal. Capacitors almost never fail. It's not the microcontroller either.

They sell more of the cheaper ones. I would rather have an Oehler, but they're way too pricey for the amount of use I'll give one. The CE chrony lies to me with my .458 socom sometimes. Haven't taken the time to troubleshoot. Lots of folks have trouble with the .458.