AR info for the uneducated

[MiddTennTaco]

Thanks nysos and Murgatroy.

Lol

Sent from my HTC Inspire 4G using Tapatalk

Edited December 2, 2011 by w0lfattack

[Lumber_Jack]

Thanks nysos and Murgatroy.

I won't speak for Dolomite but I will say you can trust him, he has real world experience.

I learned more about AR's in 30min at his house than reading the internet for 30 days

[sigrug17]

I agree with Dolomite_Superfly, the M&P Sport is completely hard to beat for your 1st AR much less 2nd. I second his advice on what your going to use it for... that is a PRIMARY consideration. But once that is done, the rest is as other's have said 'is easy.' I just completed my 4th AR, and they are the 'barbie-dolls' of the carbine world...lots of configurations and options if you do decide to change it for another purpose down the road.

Edited December 2, 2011 by sigrug17

[Dolomite_supafly]

Dolomite - thanks a ton for taking time from your day to go through such a long and thorough explanation and suggestion. So here are some general responses after I've thought it over some more after your post:

1. Price range equals what it takes to get something nice and reasonable. If that needs to be $1,500 or so then so be it. The top of the price point would not go much beyond that, especially if the wife finds out. But if I can pickup the M&P Sport for $660 out the door, as I know is something possible to do at the Goodlettsville Gun Store from their Facebook updates, and it suits my needs then I'll save my money for another adventure, for another day. I've made purchases of guns in the past, my Keltec P3AT comes to mind, that seemed reasonable but were purchased for price and then function not the other way around and it has bitten me in my butt. Now I'm left with a gun that I don't much enjoy or like, needs to go back to the factory (again) and isn't worth selling monetarily speaking. Plus I don't want to sale it to anyone because I know it's not reliable. This is not a Keltec post nor forum so that's as far as I'll go. But given the point I'm trying to make, I'm done saving a bill or two just because I want it now or feel there's some pressing need. The truth is there's not and I can take my time, do my research and come out better on the other side for it if I just allow myself patience.

2. The purpose of the gun would be one of mainly recreational shooting for the most part. I may hunt from time to time with it but it would generally stay behind in favor of a Marlin 30-30 my father-in-law gave me recently. Not much running and gunning going on in my neck of the woods either. So - as sad as it is to say, a range gun it will more than likely be. That's the purpose I have for it today. I want the weapon of choice for this purpose to also be able to fulfill, if so selected in the future, a run and gun type of setup. I'm still young relatively speaking and I have no idea what I'll be doing or interested in 2-3-5 years from now. But I would like to think that this particular purchase would allow me the flexibility to do what I want to now and any unforeseen things I may want to do in the future. If this is unrealistic, slap me back to the real world, please.

Based upon your needs I would say the M&P Sport would fit them nicely. And as I said before it is built to a standard so if you need to upgrade to meet a new like it is possible. Or you could build one but it would be nearly impossible to get the same quality for the same amount of money. And with an AR it is possible to have one lower and several uppers to fit various needs.

3. You mentioned a few things, in the lingo, that I didn't quite catch or understand which was my main reason for the post to the forum in the first place. In a most humble and respectful way I ask, how do you know what you know? Has it been from life experiences that you've ran into along the way? Books? Cassettes? CDs? Laserdiscs? 8-tracks? You are a SME in your field and sharing your knowledge is greatly appreciated. I just want to know if there is a resource that I can plug into to learn about this particular subject. It's not that I don't respect highly your opinion, I just like determining that I agree with the facts presented. I'm allowing myself the time to learn about this in advance so I can feel good about my purchase before and after the sale is made and feel like I know I can address any concerns that may arise while I am in possession of the gun. That's why I'm not asking which gun to buy, but instead asking what is different? What makes one better than the other? Why should I care that a dust cover isn't included? Again, I hope I've spelled this portion out in a way that conveys my curiosity but also my respect for anyone who knows what they're talking about. I'm hear asking to learn - not so I can take the place as a SME, but so I'm educated myself to make my own decisions. And yes, I've always been this hard headed.

There are so many variables into what makes a good gun vs not such a good gun. The majority of the choices you are going to have to make are for preference only. But there are certain things that I feel make an AR better. A MPI and shot peened bolt for durability is one. Chromed lined bores for durability is another although accuracy may not be as good with a chrome lined bore. Proper staking of parts that should be staked. At a bare minimum everything else should be Milspec. And milspec is not the gold standard but a minimum standard, kind of like a "D" on a report card. There are plenty of items that are better than milspec but are not milspec like boron nitrided coated parts. And as a general rule you do get what you pay for, especially with individual parts. But there are also cases where you pay for something that is waste of money like titanium coated parts. If you want the best you are going ot pay for it but for most the best will never be used to its full potential. That is why I tell people to buy it to fit their needs and if their needs change they can upgrade. That AR is unique in that respect, very few other platforms can do the same. The 10/22 is one of the few guns that is as easily changed as the AR and yes I have plenty of experince on that platform as well.

The dust cover is not a requirement for most but it does keep out dust and debris that may foul a gun. Not really important for someone who is not in a combat enviroment. But you never know when you might be so I prefer having a dust cover even though mine are rarely closed.

-BPE

As far as experience to plug into I would go to AR15.com and read. But be forewarned you are going to leave there feeling inadequate unless you are spending $2K+ on your AR. Also, go to your local shop that builds AR's and ask questions.

There are people more knowledgeable than me I am sure. I would be a fool to think I am the expert. But the majority of what I do know is from first hand experience.

I appreciate when people ask before they buy. It keeps people from buying something that doesn't fit their needs or from buying something they won't be happy with.

Dolomite

Edited December 2, 2011 by Dolomite_supafly

[BPE]

Alright then. Probably time to find a Sport to put my hands on to see how it feels. The price point will make the wife happy and the ability to modify quickly and easily will be a pleasure. Thanks for the help and tips everyone. I'll be in touch with updates along the way.

[rgaper]

Thanks for that tad bit... looks like I have some more research to do as I've not yet looked into Bravo Company or Daniel Defense. However, what I've seen from Colt, which isn't much mind you, I'm not fond of right off hand. Too many caveats of you can't change this, this is one piece instead of two like most guns, etc. Again - I've not had a ton of experience with Colt hence the purpose of asking so many questions.

Bravo company is a much better gun than Colt for the money. Colt used to be the gold standard but not anymore. Bravo is also some of the best when it comes to taking care of their customers. They will build you what you want then back it up with great customer service. And no I do not own anything Bravo but I have seen their products and how they take care of the customers first hand.

Not sure what you may be referring to or confused on with the Colt information about caveats. Colts are just as modular as any other AR15-style rifle, so you can pick, choose, add, subtract and modify as you please. As far as civilian available models, they don't have a ton of options because, frankly, they don't need to.

Colt is the gold standard that all other AR15s follow. The elusive "mil-spec" that is thrown so wildly around is embodied in the TDP (technical data package) that Colt - and only Colt - is allowed to utilize on the open market. Have other companies embraced the need to give the enduser a tier 1 quality firearm? Absolutely - and notoriously, "the chart" kept a very close comparison of who they are. Consistently, Colt, Bravo Company, Daniel Defense, and LMT topped the charts. LMT made some moves in the wrong direction at some point to keep pace with the 2008 demand spike, so they've since been downgraded. That said, when it comes to M4-pattern carbines, the Colt 6920 is still the standard to which others are compared. Why is BCM loved so dearly? Because they build their stuff as close to the Colt TDP as possible - closer than anyone else - and are good at what they do. Let's just not kid ourselves about Colt's product.

Does that mean I'm a Colt fanboy or that I'm trashing Bravo Company? Absolutely not. All of my guns are Colt, BCM, LMT, and Daniel Defense. As I mentioned above, I think Bravo Company provides the best value for the money, and per "the chart" they are very much on par with Colt, with the key difference being that they cater to the open market so that a user can get different configurations just a mouseclick away. Dolomite is absolutely correct about BCM's customer service as well - Paul and the rest of the guys at BCM are truly class acts and take good care of their customers... no matter if the gun's hardest use is going to be under a camera flash in someone's parents' basement or if it's in Afghanistan killing Hajis.

One thing I will say for sure is that IMO, more than any other company I think BCM owns the mid-length gas system market. Their guns run incredibly well and as this configuration picked up in popularity, some had issues. BCM has not.